Checks and Balances

[Aglaopheme]

“Conservative lawyers are not doing enough to protect constitutional principles that are being undermined by the statements and actions of this president,” said John B. Bellinger III, a top State Department and White House lawyer under President George W. Bush.

The group, called Checks and Balances, was organized by George T. Conway III, a conservative lawyer and the husband of President Trump’s counselor, Kellyanne Conway. In recent opinion articles, Mr. Conway has criticized Mr. Trump’s statements on birthright citizenship and argued that his appointment of Matthew G. Whitaker to serve as acting attorney general violated the Constitution.

The new group also includes Tom Ridge, a former governor of Pennsylvania and secretary of homeland security in the Bush administration; Peter D. Keisler, a former acting attorney general in the Bush administration; two prominent conservative law professors, Jonathan H. Adler and Orin S. Kerr; and Lori S. Meyer, a lawyer who is married to Eugene B. Meyer, the president of the Federalist Society.

“We believe in the rule of law, the power of truth, the independence of the criminal justice system, the imperative of individual rights and the necessity of civil discourse,” the group said in a statement. “We believe these principles apply regardless of the party or persons in power.”

Mr. Conway, who has long been a member of and contributor to the Federalist Society, said he had nothing but admiration for its work. But he added that some conservative lawyers, pleased with Mr. Trump’s record on judicial nominations and deregulation, have been wary of criticizing him in other areas, as when he attacks the Justice Department and the news media.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/14/...ers-trump.html#click=https:/*******GhY59LUKvK

 

[Kirkrapine]

Apparently, the decades-old conservative coalition is cracking apart.

 

[spacekowboy]

Hey, what do you know? Some conservatives arent total sycophantic jizz swillers.

I'll file this one under Things I Never Would Have Learned from the RWCJ.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Hey, what do you know? Some conservatives arent total sycophantic jizz swillers.

I'll file this one under Things I Never Would Have Learned from the RWCJ.

No news -- we all remember the NeverTrump Republicans from 2016. Also see Everything Trump Touches Dies, by longtime Pub strategist and consultant Rick Wilson.

 

[HisArpy]

I think the first question is whether this group is a group of conservatives or a group of never-Trumpers.

You can't lump them both into the same category and then say that's the entire conservative side of politics. Unfortunately, that seems to be the case here and with many other "disgruntled' voices getting media attention.

On top of that, being a Republican doesn't mean toe the Republican line in all things. Too much of the concept of individualism gets lost in the media circle jerk against Trump.

 

[TalkRadio1]

A history of the times Kellyanne Conway's husband has roasted Trump

Prominent conservative lawyer George Conway has been highly critical of his wife's boss, President Donald Trump.

His latest comment came after Trump announced plan to end birthright citizenship in the United States.

Counselor to the president Kellyanne Conway and George have previously shared how their political disagreements— especially about Trump — are affecting their marriage. But it wasn't always this way.

Here's a brief history of George Conway's transformation from Trump supporter into one of his most visible and vocal critics on the right.

Link for the list...https://www.businessinsider.com/george-conway-trump-tweets-kellyanne-2018-10

 

[spacekowboy]

Spoken like a couple of true to form circle jerkers.

 

[Aglaopheme]

I think the first question is whether this group is a group of conservatives or a group of never-Trumpers.

You can't lump them both into the same category and then say that's the entire conservative side of politics. Unfortunately, that seems to be the case here and with many other "disgruntled' voices getting media attention.

On top of that, being a Republican doesn't mean toe the Republican line in all things. Too much of the concept of individualism gets lost in the media circle jerk against Trump.

No one is “lumping them all together”.

Someone can be a conservative and a never trumper. Funny you go on to disprove your own point.

Here's a brief history of George Conway's transformation from Trump supporter into one of his most visible and vocal critics on the right.

Link for the list...https://www.businessinsider.com/george-conway-trump-tweets-kellyanne-2018-10

As does the above article.

 

[Busybody18]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/14/...ers-trump.html#click=https:/*******GhY59LUKvK

yawn

 

[HisArpy]

No one is “lumping them all together”.

Someone can be a conservative and a never trumper. Funny you go on to disprove your own point.


As does the above article.

Not trying to start an argument other than to say, unless someone believes that the entire spectrum of Republicans are also ultra conservative, then the article makes assumptions which aren't necessarily true.

The main assumption is that "conservatives" means everyone in the R party pushes the ultra conservative platform. Another is that "conservatives" are all "never-trumpers".

At the current time I am a conservative Republican though I believe I'm trending toward becoming an Independent. I support some of Trump's POLICIES, not him as a person. I also don't support some of his POLICIES. However, he is the President and I support the Office of the The President regardless of whose ass is sitting in the oval office.

And, before you go off on a make-believe flame fest, I supported Obama's ass in the oval office even though I didn't support many of his policies and questioned his ethics and associations. I supported Clinton as a damn fine President even though I thought he was a true fuckup as a person. Both of them were President as is Trump. I support the Office of The President.

 

[Aglaopheme]

The article doesn’t make any of those assumptions. It lists a very specific group of people who self indentify as conservatives or libertarians.

 

[HisArpy]

The article doesn’t make any of those assumptions. It lists a very specific group of people who self indentify as conservatives or libertarians.

It fails to limit the narrative to only the groups of people being discussed and infers that this applies to all conservatives by attaching that label to the group.

It's like introducing someone as, for ex; "Asians like Mr. Botanyboy" or similar, because it infers that the individuals speak for the group rather than for themselves and.or their particular POV. It is the same in this case, that the group consists of "conservatives" rather than being the sub group of never-Trumpers who are also conservatives.


What they said may be true. It's how they said it that I'm objecting to.

15 fallacies

Pay attention to #13. It's how/why some of the media is being called fake news. This is more of that same sort of deception.

 

[Aglaopheme]

Sure, because directly quoting people and including a copy of the letter they signed infers everyone in the planet. You are one incorrectly assigning a label to them as never trumpers.

 

[HisArpy]

Sure, because directly quoting people and including a copy of the letter they signed infers everyone in the planet. You are one incorrectly assigning a label to them as never trumpers.

You want to argue. I don't. If you insist on believing that the article is purely fact based and unbiased, then do so. I don't care.

 

[Sean]

Has there been any thread in the last month or so where Tim HASN'T got the shit kicked out of him?

 

[Kirkrapine]

Not trying to start an argument other than to say, unless someone believes that the entire spectrum of Republicans are also ultra conservative . . .

Not "ultra," perhaps, but there are certainly no liberals left in the GOP for decades now, and precious few moderates.

 

[Pookie]

You want to argue. I don't. If you insist on believing that the article is purely fact based and unbiased, then do so. I don't care.

http://commonsenseatheism.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/strawman.png

 

[KeithD]

Apparently, the decades-old conservative coalition is cracking apart.

I take the emergence of the Conway group as the coalition making efforts to come back together in an organized way. More power to them.

 

[KeithD]

I think the first question is whether this group is a group of conservatives or a group of never-Trumpers.

Any group that is coherently and honestly conservative would, ipso facto, be a never-Trumpers group.

 

[von_Bismarck]

I'm just here to watch Tim argue himself into a pretzel. Again.

https://media.giphy.com/media/tFK8urY6XHj2w/giphy.gif

 

[Sean]

The absolute collapse of the GOP suburban vote scared the shit out of strategists on the right. This is a response.

 

[HisArpy]

Has there been any thread in the last month or so where Tim HASN'T got the shit kicked out of him?

Has there EVER been a thread in which you haven't opened your mouth and shoved your foot into it? Well, Timmeh? Has there?

 

[HisArpy]

http://commonsenseatheism.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/strawman.png

At some point I hope you start taking your meds again. Really, I do.

 

[HisArpy]

Any group that is coherently and honestly conservative would, ipso facto, be a never-Trumpers group.

Do you have anything to support this position beyond opinion? Because I assure you that there is lots of authority to dispute it.

Many American's see Trump as a Liberal despite his conservative record

CNN Politics asks CPAC if Trump is a conservative

President Trump entered the Oval Office as a populist question mark. But after a year, the conservative Heritage Foundation now trumpets that Trump has a more conservative track record than Ronald Reagan at least according to their standards.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...chieved-more-than-ronald-reagan-in-first-year

 

[Kirkrapine]

Any group that is coherently and honestly conservative would, ipso facto, be a never-Trumpers group.

Weeellll . . . I'm reading The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule, by Thomas Frank. Published in 2008, but still highly topical. According to Frank, American conservatism has only one permanent principle: Supporting the interests of business. Everything else -- traditionalism, religion, nationalism, etc. -- is mutable and disposable. Even the commitment to laissez-faire, apparently so essential to the movement, is readily discarded whenever government action might help business profits.

In that sense, Trump is perfectly conservative. What has he ever done that went against business interests?