When are we going to get serious about the criminally insane?

[bellisarius]

Jesus. Just had a horrible thought.

The US is the Florida of the world.

You and the individual you quoted may want to look up world murder statistics.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

In almost all of the mass shootings over the years there is one common thread, in virtually all of the cases the shooter was...

http://www.statista.com/graphic/1/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race.jpg

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FirmInsistentCollardlizard-size_restricted.gif

hmmmmmmmm...

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ScentedPoliticalGalapagossealion-small.gif

okey! let's remix it!

In almost all of the mass shootings over the years there is one common thread, in virtually all of the cases the shooter was...

http://www.statista.com/graphic/1/476445/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-gender.jpg

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SnivelingGaseousAfricanpiedkingfisher-size_restricted.gif

...and they tell two friends, and they tell two friends, and so on, and so on, and so...

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e3f12d425385527b9db44cdc20432a41/tenor.gif?itemid=4930323

 

[BotanyBoy]

It is in your case.

How do ya figure?

Jesus. Just had a horrible thought.

The US is the Florida of the world.

You're free to fuck off you know???

 

[BotanyBoy]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e3f12d425385527b9db44cdc20432a41/tenor.gif?itemid=4930323

Obsessed with race and gender....totally not a bigot though.

 

[CandiCame]

In almost all of the mass shootings over the years there is one common thread, in virtually all of the cases the shooter was insane. You can call it mentally ill if you want, but from my perspective any one that randomly kills one or more individuals is insane.

I haven't read the thread, but yhall have told him that this is patently false, right? Neurodivergent people are much more likely to be the VICTIM of violent crime than the perpetrator. And, are 2/3 as likely as neurotypical people to be victims, while only about 5% as likely to be perpetrators.

We are not your fucking scapegoat. We've been through this before, and this is a tactic that sane folks wanna use to round up undesirables and put folks in institutions, so that they don't have to confront the underlying causes of violence in their communities.

So the answer better goddamn well be NEVER, because you're making up a problem to attack people who are already at risk, instead of addressing the actual problem. You neurotypical folks need to get your shit together, not to point fingers.

 

[CandiCame]

It's CA., did you expect anything else? Gun free zones are target rich environments, you'd think that would have sunken in by now.

The cynic in me considers that the left actually wants it that way. Not in the public interest but because more blood advances their agenda, or so they think anyway. Then the other side kicks in and considers that no rational human would think that way and they are actually well meaning, if misguided, individuals. They are going for the simplest solution they can think of and think that if they prevail everything is going to be OK and that's just not true and it hasn't been throughout history.

The fact remains that even if those cops were armed it would have been after the fact and the best to be hoped for is the death toll would have been reduced. What I'd like to see is a reduction in the occurrences. A way of stopping this shit before it starts without stomping on the rights to the non-participants.

Right, we should totally have guns in bars, because drunk people are the most responsible folks to be shooting.

Take out your occam's razor dude, this ain't a liberal conspiracy, you just need a shave.

I like my guns too, but my redneck dumbass knows I don't need a loaded gun on me when I'm out drinking. You know what that leads to? It doesn't lead to me heroically saving anyone, it leads me to me going, "Hey yhall watch this! I bet I can do some trickshots!"

Being a cop doesn't make you not a dumbass, and let's not all act like we've not been with drunk cops who think they can flip a quarter into the air and shoot it to impress some chick. Drunks and guns ends with dumbassery and we all know it.

 

[bellisarius]

Zumi is at it again. Fine.

The gender is a knock down certainty. Only an idiot would need a graph.

The race is almost as certain as the gender. As a matter of fact it's reasonably in line with the national demographics.

But where's the graph on age? I can tell you this, the peak is from the age of 16 to 35. And I think it can be narrowed down further.

Again, Zumi is just making an attempt to baffle everyone with bullshit and no brainer statistics. No attempt to address the problem.

Without addressing the mass shooting situation, 54% of all murders in the US are committed by blacks who constitute 13% of the population. We could easily reduce our murder numbers by incarcerating, killing, or deporting, all blacks. Is that a solution to anything?

 

[bellisarius]

Right, we should totally have guns in bars, because drunk people are the most responsible folks to be shooting.

Take out your occam's razor dude, this ain't a liberal conspiracy, you just need a shave.

I like my guns too, but my redneck dumbass knows I don't need a loaded gun on me when I'm out drinking. You know what that leads to? It doesn't lead to me heroically saving anyone, it leads me to me going, "Hey yhall watch this! I bet I can do some trickshots!"

Being a cop doesn't make you not a dumbass, and let's not all act like we've not been with drunk cops who think they can flip a quarter into the air and shoot it to impress some chick. Drunks and guns ends with dumbassery and we all know it.

I didn't say that dip shit and you know it.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Obsessed with race and gender....totally not a bigot though.

EVIL WHITE MEN!!!

SOCIALIST COMMUNISTS!!!

FASCIST LIBERTARIAN FEMINISTS!!!

NAZI CAPITALISTS!!!

BIGOTED SEXISTS!!!

RACIST RACIALISTS WHO RACE RACECARS AND RUN RICE ROCKETS RHYTHMICALLY!!!

MONSANTO MONTALBAN!!!

(R's)!!!

(D's)!!!

(I's)!!!

(M&M's!!!)

LIONS AND TIGERS AND BEARS OH MY!!!

https://media1.tenor.com/images/e83efff147c45e884da3e73f867be4a8/tenor.gif?itemid=9450407

You knowz how it iz, Bots! C'mon, give us that bRo00taL cheer!

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxpj6grFIe1qcaomb.gif

 

[BotanyBoy]

I didn't say that dip shit and you know it.

His Kentucky education shows every time he posts....

 

[BotanyBoy]

EVIL WHITE MEN!!!

NAZI CAPITALISTS!!!

Those are usually yours and doesn't change how race obsessed you are.

 

[bellisarius]

Looks like Zumo's swerved into the BB zone.

 

[CandiCame]

Zumi is at it again. Fine.

The gender is a knock down certainty. Only an idiot would need a graph.

The race is almost as certain as the gender. As a matter of fact it's reasonably in line with the national demographics.

But where's the graph on age? I can tell you this, the peak is from the age of 16 to 35. And I think it can be narrowed down further.

Again, Zumi is just making an attempt to baffle everyone with bullshit and no brainer statistics. No attempt to address the problem.

Without addressing the mass shooting situation, 54% of all murders in the US are committed by blacks who constitute 13% of the population. We could easily reduce our murder numbers by incarcerating, killing, or deporting, all blacks. Is that a solution to anything?

Citation, please?

Because the actual statistics say 36% of perpetrators of homicides not considered mass or serial in 2017 are black, which is still way higher than the 10-15% we should expect, like over double, so there wasn't really a reason to lie about it. Like you could have made your "black folks are inherently violent" or whatever accusation without lying.

But I mean... your math is wrong. If we somehow got rid of the entire demographic, our homicide rate would actually be higher, because then we wouldn't have the black victims to take those numbers- that is, white homicide rates are so high, and have more inter-racial victims than any other demographic, as you can see in the study I linked, that if we decreased the population by removing the black demographic, our overall homicide rate would increase, because of how statistics work- both because we were removing the majority of black folks who didn't commit homicide, and because we were lowing the overall population numbers by 10-15%. When you math it out, the homicide rate goes up because that's just how math works. The amount of homicides we still have, but with the smaller population to pull from, makes the percentage ratio higher. Our "murderer vs nonmurderer" and "murderer per capita" would go up.

That's not to say that black folks are particularly virtuous (or vice...eous... Idk what the opposite of virtuous is) though, like that would probably be similar if we removed any 10% segment of the population that had more non-murders than murders.

That seems like a weird thing to lie about, is the bullet point. Because you could have made the same point with the truth.

 

[CandiCame]

I didn't say that dip shit and you know it.

It's CA., did you expect anything else? Gun free zones are target rich environments, you'd think that would have sunken in by now.

The cynic in me considers that the left actually wants it that way. Not in the public interest but because more blood advances their agenda, or so they think anyway.

Rough night because they won't let you shoot up the bar?

 

[CandiCame]

Wait... is this the same person who tried to do a population growth chart in another thread and hurt my head so fucking bad or was that beew?

One of yhall failed the hell out of statistics so Idk if I should even be having this conversation about how basic math works again.

 

[Bidin~Time]

I have not read through the thread, so my apologies if this has been said. Anyone trying to get mental health help for a family member who doesn't want that help knows the difficulties. The first thing they will be told is that unless or until the loved one harms them self or someone else, there is virtually no help that can be thrust upon that unwilling person. It doesn't really matter whether there is agreement by all the parties except the unwilling person.

 

[BotanyBoy]

which is still way higher than the 10-15% we should expect,

Pure idiocy......should?

Behaviors don't all work along racial/gender/age/religious demographics man....that's not how shit works.

 

[bellisarius]

Citation, please?

Because the actual statistics say 36% of perpetrators of homicides not considered mass or serial in 2017 are black, which is still way higher than the 10-15% we should expect, like over double, so there wasn't really a reason to lie about it. Like you could have made your "black folks are inherently violent" or whatever accusation without lying.

But I mean... your math is wrong. If we somehow got rid of the entire demographic, our homicide rate would actually be higher, because then we wouldn't have the black victims to take those numbers- that is, white homicide rates are so high, and have more inter-racial victims than any other demographic, as you can see in the study I linked, that if we decreased the population by removing the black demographic, our overall homicide rate would increase, because of how statistics work- both because we were removing the majority of black folks who didn't commit homicide, and because we were lowing the overall population numbers by 10-15%. When you math it out, the homicide rate goes up because that's just how math works. The amount of homicides we still have, but with the smaller population to pull from, makes the percentage ratio higher. Our "murderer vs nonmurderer" and "murderer per capita" would go up.

That's not to say that black folks are particularly virtuous (or vice...eous... Idk what the opposite of virtuous is) though, like that would probably be similar if we removed any 10% segment of the population that had more non-murders than murders.

That seems like a weird thing to lie about, is the bullet point. Because you could have made the same point with the truth.

FBI UCR

 

[bellisarius]

I have not read through the thread, so my apologies if this has been said. Anyone trying to get mental health help for a family member who doesn't want that help knows the difficulties. The first thing they will be told is that unless or until the loved one harms them self or someone else, there is virtually no help that can be thrust upon that unwilling person. It doesn't really matter whether there is agreement by all the parties except the unwilling person.

Very few know that because very few have ever had to deal with it.

 

[CandiCame]

FBI UCR

You didn't link a study, you linked the FBI's entire violent crime statistical analysis division. What the fuck is anybody supposed to do with this? Go through the whole thing for you and probably find the numbers I already listed?

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Zumi is at it again. Fine.

The gender is a knock down certainty. Only an idiot would need a graph.

The race is almost as certain as the gender. As a matter of fact it's reasonably in line with the national demographics.

But where's the graph on age? I can tell you this, the peak is from the age of 16 to 35. And I think it can be narrowed down further.

Again, Zumi is just making an attempt to baffle everyone with bullshit and no brainer statistics. No attempt to address the problem.

Without addressing the mass shooting situation, 54% of all murders in the US are committed by blacks who constitute 13% of the population. We could easily reduce our murder numbers by incarcerating, killing, or deporting, all blacks. Is that a solution to anything?

Heh. Made ya shake a lil' bit, eh Ishypoo?

Seriously, you gonna use stats when you feel like it? We can use 'em, too. Except these ain't about bias confirmation. Address the verity of white males with access to weapons losing their grip and fucking shit up because they couldn't deal but not getting automatically demonized without the mental handicap excuse like everyone else not like them. See, that happens. And lately it's been happenin' quite a bit. So ain't no bafflin' goin' on, bitch.

oh, and the people who actually gave a shit about mental health in our society and wanted to fund/staff that properly so they could help alleviate the resulting social problems thereof? They were called snowflakes by your side. Jeered and ridiculed. Their feelings were told to be fucked. Made t-shirts to that effect, I recall. Ain't jack shit getting better under Cheeto. He don't give a fuck, so why should his supporters? Hey, they always swing like that until it's their children that get murked.

Pfft. Whatever. Just get ready for the next episodes, guy. I forget the exact show number we're on right now, but I guess it don't matter anymore.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ThickHiddenAlbertosaurus-max-1mb.gif

 

[Emerson40]

You and the individual you quoted may want to look up world murder statistics.

Sure, Sparky, take a look.

The US is numero uno in the world when it comes to gun-related homicides.
They are still top o’ the pops, by a nice healthy margin, when compared to other nations with high rates of civilian gun ownership.

And pin the blue ribbon on ‘merica for mass shootings. First In Show, sparky.

This is what you started the thread about, how all the mass shootings were done by insane individuals, and possible solutions.

In almost all of the mass shootings over the years there is one common thread, in virtually all of the cases the shooter was insane. You can call it mentally ill if you want, but from my perspective any one that randomly kills one or more individuals is insane.

The insane should not be allowed to have firearms. You, I, even the NRA agree's on that point. But the problem is that starting in the 70's the ACLU brought a series of actions before the SCOTUS that virtually emptied our mental health institutions. Those actions were warranted when you dive into them. More than a few individuals were committed to mental institutions that just didn't belong there. Some were committed by their families so that the families could get control of their property or money. Others because the family just didn't want to be bothered. and yet others because they marched to the beat of a different drum. Regardless the court rulings were such that it became virtually impossible to commit anyone and deprive them of their constitutional rights.

.

So, why does the US have so many insane folks shooting people, compared to the rest world. Even those with higher than average citizen owned firearms?

It can’t be the number of guns or the ease with which they are obtained, right? You have the right to bear arms and all that. So it must be the crazies.

Nothing crazy about owning enough guns and ammo to take out dozens of people from a block away, from a Vegas hotel room. The 2nd, amiright?

How do you reasonably expect to have a productive discussion on the topic when you are not even willing to acknowledge the elephant in the room capable of 45 rounds per minute of 223 Remington is part of the problem.

Sit down, sparky. You’re drunk.

 

[Bidin~Time]

Very few know that because very few have ever had to deal with it.

A few years ago, there was a discussion here around a shooting in which the perpetrator's family had gone to the authorities numerous times asking that his guns be taken away and "something" done to help him and them. They were told repeatedly nothing could be done as there was no"proof" he was a threat; until there was proof that he was, and it was too late.

 

[CandiCame]

A few years ago, there was a discussion here around a shooting in which the perpetrator's family had gone to the authorities numerous times asking that his guns be taken away and "something" done to help him and them. They were told repeatedly nothing could be done as there was no"proof" he was a threat; until there was proof that he was, and it was too late.

The thing is, those laws exist for a reason- there's a real slippery slope that we're real easy to fall into when it comes to neurodivergent people, especially those who can have behavioral outburst. Things like over-generalization and quality of care issues, things like person-hood.

There are a LOT of reasons that your family could say that you were crazy. There's a lot of reasons that anyone could say that you were crazy. But we know from experience that if people truly have mental health issues, and they decide to make a decision that would affect that, like, say, going off your meds- like real talk let's use me as an example, because I'm in this situation.

My grandpa, who I am the caregiver for, has these issues. He's got a mood disorder that causes behavioral outbursts. He genuinely is a danger to himself and others when he has these outbursts. He even has a history of violence, like attacking people and shit- not because he's crazy, just because he's an asshole, and those are two seperate things.

When I went and started taking the caregiver classes and stuff, they made it very clear to me that he is in charge of his own shit. I can't force him to take his meds. I can't force him to treat his disorder. If he starts having an outburst, I'm to remove everyone from the situation and keep him as safe as I can until he calms down.

None of those outbursts ever have or probably ever will involve shooting people. Because that's plain not how that works. Mass shootings are someone flying mad because they don't have the resources to control that emotion. It is NOT premeditated attack that requires sane, rational planning, the ability to drive (which you can't do during a behavioral outburst because you're, you know, fucking crazy, not thinking clearly) to a populated location to carry out your sane, rationally planned attack. It does not involve posting threats beforehand, because it cannot, by it's very nature, BE planned. Planning requires the kind of sanity that us crazies don't have during an episode. It's just not a thing, cannot be a thing, by the very nature of the beast.

The actual problem, what you're actually scared of when you have a relative in this situation, is that they're going to hurt themselves or someone else during an outburst, like one person, a person close to them. But the real fear is that they're going to hurt themselves, and you'll be powerless to stop it. It's a bad situation, and I do worry about it all the time.

But the nature of the beast is that crazy folks are not the ones committing mass shootings, because that doesn't make any fucking sense. The statistics reflect actual reality, where people need sanity to plan something like that. These aren't people who are having outbursts, they're people who are making and carrying out plans, usually as part of a group, usually with a specific agenda. When we look at the places they're targeting, or straight up ask them, they'll tell us what their motives were, and it's not usually something batshit off the wall- it's normally something that is understandably rational for someone with their mindset, raised how they were. Shoot up a gay nightclub on latino night because you're homophobic and racist. Shoot up a black church because you're racist. Shoot up a school because you wanted revenge for the shit the people there put you through. And- and this is interesting to me- often they think that they'll bring awareness to their cause and their group. They want to be famous, to send a message.

When we look at the actual motives, it's not crazy people being crazy with families who couldn't control them. It's sane people doing fucked-up shit, but in a way that makes sense, a string of logic that you can follow- they're not crazy people, they're shitty people.

And as a crazy person, that difference is important to me. Being crazy doesn't MAKE you shitty, and being shitty doesn't MAKE you crazy.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Looks like Zumo's swerved into the BB zone.

Careful now...Vette not's gonna like you cracking foxy about his shitstain BFF when he wakes up in seven hours and logs on to bump up this thread in sticking up for you.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxpj6grFIe1qcaomb.gif