My take on the Saudi Arabia issue.

[bellisarius]

Everyone's all a flutter over the probable murder of the journalist in the Saudi consulate in Turkey with many calling for serious sanctions. I'm thinking that any sanctions that might be levied are going to fall into the category of 'token.' Here's why.

Saudi Arabia, along with Israel, are our 'proxies' in the lukewarm war with Iran. While many argue that the difference between the two is almost indistinguishable the fact is that the Saudi's are the lesser evil. We have enjoyed a long business relationship with the Saudi's having lived up to our contractual commitments and are respected for that. And the Saudi leadership aren't the fire breathing ultra-Islamist's that the Mullahs are. The fact that they are working behind the scenes with the Israeli's holds out the hope for more regional stability. Based on the regional politics and our involvement in same we don't want to go shitting in their mess kit. There is more at stake than the life of one journalist.

The Saudi's have an internal problem with the Wahab's. Saudi Arabia has always been ruled by a partnership. The Saudi royal family dealing with the secular while the Wahab's kept the masses under control with the divine. With the Saudi's trying to modernize a conflict between themselves and the Wahab's began to erupt raising the specter of a civil war within the kingdom. And that would be bad for everyone, not just the US.

I suspect, and this is just speculation, that the entire ISIS thing was a blessing in disguise for both the US and the Saudi's. A little side deal as it were. We may have made a little deal with the Saudi's that amounts to, "Hey, you get your Mullah's to stir up your home grown jihadist's and send them off to Iraq/Syria and we'll kill them for you." A win-win for both of us. The jihadist's left the kingdom to be martyr's, and coincidentally recruited a lot of like minded murder's out of the western nations and we bombed the shit out of them. Whether that was a plan or not makes no difference, the results were/are the same.

The Saudi's have always dealt ruthlessly with any opposition to the royal family. This particular incident isn't as if they are a liberal Western nation that all of a sudden went rogue. And quite frankly their humanitarian abuses are mild when compared to many other nations on this planet. The issue here is that the victim was a journalist which always (almost anyway) gets the press's panties in a wad. The press really does believe themselves to be a race separate from, and superior to, us mere mortals hence the outrage.

I neither condone nor excuse the behavior of the Saud's in this instance, merely pointing out that there is a much bigger geopolitical game being played with considerably higher stakes that can have far reaching long term effects. So you might want to think a little more deeply into the matter before you become overly emotionally invested in righteous indignation.

 

[SpeareChucker]

The nominal "journalist" was a Muslim Brotherhood propagandist.
As in so many of these countries that we deal with,
This was nothing more than and unmade man
Being knocked off on the word of the Don.

 

[bellisarius]

The nominal "journalist" was a Muslim Brotherhood propagandist.
As in so many of these countries that we deal with,
This was nothing more than and unmade man
Being knocked off on the word of the Don.

Yep, and they're our real buddies, right?

 

[schism666]

Everyone's all a flutter over the probable murder of the journalist in the Saudi consulate in Turkey with many calling for serious sanctions. I'm thinking that any sanctions that might be levied are going to fall into the category of 'token.' Here's why.

Saudi Arabia, along with Israel, are our 'proxies' in the lukewarm war with Iran. While many argue that the difference between the two is almost indistinguishable the fact is that the Saudi's are the lesser evil. We have enjoyed a long business relationship with the Saudi's having lived up to our contractual commitments and are respected for that. And the Saudi leadership aren't the fire breathing ultra-Islamist's that the Mullahs are. The fact that they are working behind the scenes with the Israeli's holds out the hope for more regional stability. Based on the regional politics and our involvement in same we don't want to go shitting in their mess kit. There is more at stake than the life of one journalist.

The Saudi's have an internal problem with the Wahab's. Saudi Arabia has always been ruled by a partnership. The Saudi royal family dealing with the secular while the Wahab's kept the masses under control with the divine. With the Saudi's trying to modernize a conflict between themselves and the Wahab's began to erupt raising the specter of a civil war within the kingdom. And that would be bad for everyone, not just the US.

I suspect, and this is just speculation, that the entire ISIS thing was a blessing in disguise for both the US and the Saudi's. A little side deal as it were. We may have made a little deal with the Saudi's that amounts to, "Hey, you get your Mullah's to stir up your home grown jihadist's and send them off to Iraq/Syria and we'll kill them for you." A win-win for both of us. The jihadist's left the kingdom to be martyr's, and coincidentally recruited a lot of like minded murder's out of the western nations and we bombed the shit out of them. Whether that was a plan or not makes no difference, the results were/are the same.

The Saudi's have always dealt ruthlessly with any opposition to the royal family. This particular incident isn't as if they are a liberal Western nation that all of a sudden went rogue. And quite frankly their humanitarian abuses are mild when compared to many other nations on this planet. The issue here is that the victim was a journalist which always (almost anyway) gets the press's panties in a wad. The press really does believe themselves to be a race separate from, and superior to, us mere mortals hence the outrage.

I neither condone nor excuse the behavior of the Saud's in this instance, merely pointing out that there is a much bigger geopolitical game being played with considerably higher stakes that can have far reaching long term effects. So you might want to think a little more deeply into the matter before you become overly emotionally invested in righteous indignation.

you don't condone the killing of an american in a foreign consulate?

 

[myrionomos]

The Saud's got away with 20 of their countrymen killing 3000 Americans 20 years ago. The absence of retaliation has made them disrespectful to the USA - They think that they can get away with anything.

The proper response would be to identify a small number of MBS' close Royal relatives and kill them. Done efficiently and discretely it would inform the Sauds that when it comes to the exercise of real power they are not top league. It would also inform them that the USA can dispose of whoever they wish - including the currently favoured princeling. Brutality appropriately applied tends to encourage caution.

You may remember some 30 years ago Reagan ordered a missile to be fired through Gadaffis bedroom window. He was never much trouble to the USA after that lesson.

 

[HisArpy]

you don't condone the killing of an american in a foreign consulate?

I don't condone the murder of anyone. BUT, that said, he wasn't an American citizen.

I don't think there'll be much said or done. A bunch of media types will stir the pot, claim it's all Trump's fault, and then it'll die until it's needed again in the future. Sanctions will always be token in these types of situations. FFS, we shoot a few missiles in a "strategic response" to the use of chemical gas on civilian targets, why would we do more than that in this case?

A scolding before the UN, a demand they not do it again under pain of another scolding, and it ends. Just like what the world did after Putin invaded Crimea.

 

[schism666]

I don't condone the murder of anyone. BUT, that said, he wasn't an American citizen.

I don't think there'll be much said or done. A bunch of media types will stir the pot, claim it's all Trump's fault, and then it'll die until it's needed again in the future. Sanctions will always be token in these types of situations. FFS, we shoot a few missiles in a "strategic response" to the use of chemical gas on civilian targets, why would we do more than that in this case?

A scolding before the UN, a demand they not do it again under pain of another scolding, and it ends. Just like what the world did after Putin invaded Crimea.

he lived in america and worked at an american newspaper. patriotic americans are upset, shame you're not with us on this.

 

[bellisarius]

The Saud's got away with 20 of their countrymen killing 3000 Americans 20 years ago. The absence of retaliation has made them disrespectful to the USA - They think that they can get away with anything.

The proper response would be to identify a small number of MBS' close Royal relatives and kill them. Done efficiently and discretely it would inform the Sauds that when it comes to the exercise of real power they are not top league. It would also inform them that the USA can dispose of whoever they wish - including the currently favoured princeling. Brutality appropriately applied tends to encourage caution.

You may remember some 30 years ago Reagan ordered a missile to be fired through Gadaffis bedroom window. He was never much trouble to the USA after that lesson.

You either didn't read, or didn't understand, what was written. The Saudi's as a nation DIDN'T kill 2000 Americans. A group of Wahabi extremists under the tutelage of bin Laden, a follower of the Muslim Brotherhood, killed 2000 Americans.

 

[BBX50]

I dont see why this is a matter for the US to care about

 

[HisArpy]

he lived in america and worked at an american newspaper. patriotic americans are upset, shame you're not with us on this.

#1. He's NOT an "American". He was here on a visa.

#2. I've always tried in my life to NEVER be someone who runs with the lemmings. Sorry bout dat. Wait! What's that sound? Is it? Could it be? Why yes, yes it is. The sound of waves crashing on the beach. You better hurry little lemming, the ocean is tropi-calling.

 

[Rightguide]

Yep, and they're our real buddies, right?

The MBH was the favorite of the Obama gang. Though listed as a terrorist org by other nations they are hard at work in the American administrative state.

 

[BBX50]

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=89884872&posted=1#post89884872

 

[Carnal_Flower]

OR

That's b.s. and the reason Trump is providing cover for the Saudi's is because:

a. The guy wore a towel and was brown and an A-rab. If he was white, a totally different story

b. Trump and Kushner have too many business interests of their own with the Saudis

Everyone's all a flutter over the probable murder of the journalist in the Saudi consulate in Turkey with many calling for serious sanctions. I'm thinking that any sanctions that might be levied are going to fall into the category of 'token.' Here's why.

Saudi Arabia, along with Israel, are our 'proxies' in the lukewarm war with Iran. While many argue that the difference between the two is almost indistinguishable the fact is that the Saudi's are the lesser evil. We have enjoyed a long business relationship with the Saudi's having lived up to our contractual commitments and are respected for that. And the Saudi leadership aren't the fire breathing ultra-Islamist's that the Mullahs are. The fact that they are working behind the scenes with the Israeli's holds out the hope for more regional stability. Based on the regional politics and our involvement in same we don't want to go shitting in their mess kit. There is more at stake than the life of one journalist.

The Saudi's have an internal problem with the Wahab's. Saudi Arabia has always been ruled by a partnership. The Saudi royal family dealing with the secular while the Wahab's kept the masses under control with the divine. With the Saudi's trying to modernize a conflict between themselves and the Wahab's began to erupt raising the specter of a civil war within the kingdom. And that would be bad for everyone, not just the US.

I suspect, and this is just speculation, that the entire ISIS thing was a blessing in disguise for both the US and the Saudi's. A little side deal as it were. We may have made a little deal with the Saudi's that amounts to, "Hey, you get your Mullah's to stir up your home grown jihadist's and send them off to Iraq/Syria and we'll kill them for you." A win-win for both of us. The jihadist's left the kingdom to be martyr's, and coincidentally recruited a lot of like minded murder's out of the western nations and we bombed the shit out of them. Whether that was a plan or not makes no difference, the results were/are the same.

The Saudi's have always dealt ruthlessly with any opposition to the royal family. This particular incident isn't as if they are a liberal Western nation that all of a sudden went rogue. And quite frankly their humanitarian abuses are mild when compared to many other nations on this planet. The issue here is that the victim was a journalist which always (almost anyway) gets the press's panties in a wad. The press really does believe themselves to be a race separate from, and superior to, us mere mortals hence the outrage.

I neither condone nor excuse the behavior of the Saud's in this instance, merely pointing out that there is a much bigger geopolitical game being played with considerably higher stakes that can have far reaching long term effects. So you might want to think a little more deeply into the matter before you become overly emotionally invested in righteous indignation.

 

[phrodeau]

The Saud's got away with 20 of their countrymen killing 3000 Americans 20 years ago. The absence of retaliation has made them disrespectful to the USA - They think that they can get away with anything.

The proper response would be to identify a small number of MBS' close Royal relatives and kill them. Done efficiently and discretely it would inform the Sauds that when it comes to the exercise of real power they are not top league. It would also inform them that the USA can dispose of whoever they wish - including the currently favoured princeling. Brutality appropriately applied tends to encourage caution.

You may remember some 30 years ago Reagan ordered a missile to be fired through Gadaffis bedroom window. He was never much trouble to the USA after that lesson.

The man who confused Syria with Iraq has no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Saint_Anne]

So it's okay to murder journalists? Good to know.
How many Saudis were involved in the 911 attacks. Yeah, they are good allies...idiots.

 

[coati]

By turning a blind eye to the grossest bush-league assassination in the 21st century so far and by propping up the "royal" family for purely economic interests, it sounds like the Amerikan right wing is once again setting up another middle eastern country for an Islamic revolution.

Were no lessons learned at all with America's historical experience in Iran?. All that Reagan crap about us being the shining city on the hill must refer to greed and riches, not basic human rights. We will once again reap what we sow.

 

[HisArpy]

By turning a blind eye to the grossest bush-league assassination in the 21st century so far and by propping up the "royal" family for purely economic interests, it sounds like the Amerikan right wing is once again setting up another middle eastern country for an Islamic revolution.

Were no lessons learned at all with America's historical experience in Iran?. All that Reagan crap about us being the shining city on the hill must refer to greed and riches, not basic human rights. We will once again reap what we sow.

Dude, the whole world is watching this develop. We still don't have all the facts yet, and you're already pointing the finger of blame at the US for something that happened in Turkey allegedly inside the Saudi embassy/consulate by foreign nationals?

There is no "blind eye". The US isn't "propping up the royal family" in this. Trump has already said he's waiting on all the facts and if it turns out the claims are true he'll take some kind of action. He hasn't said what he'll do (AFAIK) but NO ONE is "propping up the royal family" over this.

This is heinous. It's not anything other than heinous and NO ONE is "supporting it" in any way.

 

[BBX50]

why is it OUR issue?

 

[Rightguide]

why is it OUR issue?

Because liberals, many Obama holdovers, and their allies in the media, want to wreck the alliance against Iran.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

So it's okay to murder journalists? Good to know.
How many Saudis were involved in the 911 attacks. Yeah, they are good allies...idiots.

It's not okay to murder journalists. Except when an agent of a foreign government protected by diplomatic immunity (See Article 31 of the Vienna Convention of 1961) does it. That pretty much makes it a non-starter from a criminal jurisdiction standpoint and considerably less than our business from a national interest perspective.

And no one with half a brain would judge the commitment of an entire government to its foreign alliance based on the individual actions of criminal terrorists within that country.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[coati]

Dude, the whole world is watching this develop. We still don't have all the facts yet, and you're already pointing the finger of blame at the US for something that happened in Turkey allegedly inside the Saudi embassy/consulate by foreign nationals?

There is no "blind eye". The US isn't "propping up the royal family" in this. Trump has already said he's waiting on all the facts and if it turns out the claims are true he'll take some kind of action. He hasn't said what he'll do (AFAIK) but NO ONE is "propping up the royal family" over this.

This is heinous. It's not anything other than heinous and NO ONE is "supporting it" in any way.

Pay attention.

I'm not pointing the finger at the U.S. I'm pointing a finger at the Amerikan right-wing for providing cover to the Saudi "royal" family for the last two weeks while the evidence trail goes cold.

There is a difference between America and Amerika.

 

[von_Bismarck]

Ok, look. It's appeal to the law.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Saudi Arabia executed one of it's own citizens. So what? They do that all the time. Almost as much as the United States does.

It's none of our business.

 

[Saint_Anne]

It's not okay to murder journalists. Except when an agent of a foreign government protected by diplomatic immunity (See Article 31 of the Vienna Convention of 1961) does it. That pretty much makes it a non-starter from a criminal jurisdiction standpoint and considerably less than our business from a national interest perspective.

And no one with half a brain would judge the commitment of an entire government to its foreign alliance based on the individual actions of criminal terrorists within that country.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

You're right, the Saudis are great people. Trump loves them so they must be.

 

[Kirkrapine]

The MBH was the favorite of the Obama gang. Though listed as a terrorist org by other nations they are hard at work in the American administrative state.

What is this "American administrative state"? All states are administrative.