Categorization

[kurrginatorX]

I just submitted a story where the female principal is intersexed. There is no "Intersexed" category, and I didn't want to place it under "Transgender" as that would be misleading. I finally had to opt for "Erotic Couplings" not really knowing what it means here at Lit, but because it was the only area where it fit. Are enough Intersexed / Hermaphrodite stories submitted that this should have its own category?

 

[LinneaLundin]

There are many stories with hermaphrodite characters in the "Transsexuals & Crossdressers" category. The categories here at Lit. are not perfect, but they are broad, and seasoned Lit. readers will look there for stories of your type.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Are enough Intersexed / Hermaphrodite stories submitted that this should have its own category?

Don't hold your breath asking for new categories. Folk have been asking for bisexual since the beginning of time, and if that hasn't got up, there's not much chance of smaller kink groups getting their own categories. Use the tags to search, you'll find the content you're after.

 

[kurrginatorX]

Don't hold your breath asking for new categories. Folk have been asking for bisexual since the beginning of time, and if that hasn't got up, there's not much chance of smaller kink groups getting their own categories. Use the tags to search, you'll find the content you're after.

Kind of different seeing as to how bi-sexual denotes a person committing a homosexual act. I suppose the same could be said of a man sucking an intersexed person's penis or a woman eating an intersexed person's pussy.

 

[KeithD]

Kind of different seeing as to how bi-sexual denotes a person committing a homosexual act.

It's a person who will commit both heterosexual and homosexual acts. Emphasizing the homosexual only is prejudicial and misses the point.

 

[Handley_Page]

Sorry, but I'm getting thoroughly confused; (I'm old-fashioned).
"Intersex" means just What ?
Frankly, I have problems with a proper meaning for "transgender" which strikes me as a word invented to get round whatever the current PC dictionary has it. Is it the state of a person who is in the process of changing from one sex to the other ?
And it was my understanding that "bi-sexual" means the person swings both ways with no particular preference for a sexual partner.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Sorry, but I'm getting thoroughly confused; (I'm old-fashioned).
"Intersex" means just What ?

Intersex: somebody born with a mix of "male" and "female" characteristics, e.g. somebody who has predominantly XY chromosomes but is physically female and is able to bear children.

(The relationship between sex and genetics is a lot more complex than the simplified "XX female, XY male" that gets taught in schools.)

About 1.7% of people have some variety of intersex condition, although many of those are not obvious and may never be diagnosed. Most of it is less "hermaphrodite girl has a penis AND a vagina" and more "17-year-old girl finds out why she's not getting a period and will never be able to have children". Or "person discovers that as a child they were subjected to harmful, unnecessary surgery without their consent".

Frankly, I have problems with a proper meaning for "transgender" which strikes me as a word invented to get round whatever the current PC dictionary has it. Is it the state of a person who is in the process of changing from one sex to the other ?

Transgender: somebody who does not feel that they belong to the gender that was assigned to them at birth. Some receive hormone treatment and/or surgery to change physical sexual characteristics, but that's not a defining characteristic.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Fewer categories. Better filtering and tags. Profit.

 

[AwkwardMD]

To the OP, you're in a tough spot with intersex characters. Speaking from experience, stories that contain non-binary gendered characters are not as well received here on Lit.

As a rule (and all rules have exceptions), theTransgendered/Crossdressing category likes stories with trans, CD, and Intersex characters if/when sexuality/gender is the point of the story. For example, a story about a husbands first time crossdressing, after being encouraged by his wife for years, would do very well by most metrics. A story about about a man's first time with a trans girl who passes as female would have a leg up. TG/CD is less supportive/responsive to stories about other things that also happen to contain trans, CD, and intersex characters.

Sci-Fi tends to be very supportive of fantasy stories about space and space ships and stuff with strong fantasy elements that also happen to have trans, CD, and intersex characters, but the plot needs to be there.

If you're trying to write a contemporary story, involving trans/CD/intersex characters, where the plot does not revolve around one of the characters being trans/CD/intersex, good luck.

 

[kurrginatorX]

Keith

It's a person who will commit both heterosexual and homosexual acts. Emphasizing the homosexual only is prejudicial and misses the point.

I am fully aware of what "bi" states. Electricblue66 stated, "Folk have been asking for bisexual (category) since the beginning of time," and I was pointing out that in this wise, there is no need for a separate category for bisexual since it falls within homosexual category simply because of the homosexuality involved. Yes, there is heterosexuality as well, but its rightful place is within the confines o0f gay / lesbian, or do as I did and place it under "erotic couplings."

MY STORIES

https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=3938682&page=submissions

 

[KeithD]

I am fully aware of what "bi" states. Electricblue66 stated, "Folk have been asking for bisexual (category) since the beginning of time," and I was pointing out that in this wise, there is no need for a separate category for bisexual since it falls within homosexual category simply because of the homosexuality involved. Yes, there is heterosexuality as well, but its rightful place is within the confines o0f gay / lesbian, or do as I did and place it under "erotic couplings."

No, you don't fully understand what bisexuality is. You don't understand it at all.

I reacted to what you actually posted, and I don't agree that "there is no need for a separate category for bisexual since it falls within the homosexual category simply because of the homosexuality involved."

That's just as prejudicial and ignorant a statement as was the one I originally reacted to. Bisexual is sex is sex is sex, gender not mattering. It doesn't emphasize homosexual over heterosexual. It's both. You reveal you don't understand this by placing it squarely in the homosexuals realm--for a second time.

I suggest you just stop while you're behind on this.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I am fully aware of what "bi" states. Electricblue66 stated, "Folk have been asking for bisexual (category) since the beginning of time," and I was pointing out that in this wise, there is no need for a separate category for bisexual since it falls within homosexual category simply because of the homosexuality involved.

No, that's a narrowing logic. Bi-sexuality is not a sub-set of homosexuality, it's a sexuality of attraction to both genders.

Curiously, bi-sexuality at times seems to have more of a stigma attached to it - the rabid homosexuals say, "Oh no, you can't like women too?" and the hard-core lesbians say, "What, you like men? What are you, some kind of a freak?" It's as if the other gender somehow taints the purity of "sexual choice" - which sounds like bullshit sexual politics to me, not human beings being sexual creatures.

And then the "hetero-norm" comes along and says to the curious bloke, "Oh, you might like men? That just means you're gay." That's bullshit, too, just saying.

 

[astuffedshirt_perv]

No, that's a narrowing logic.

No, you don't fully understand what bisexuality is. You don't understand it at all.

TF are you twits talking about? This thread is about categorizing stories, of which Lit has only a few, broad categories. "Understanding bisexuality" has nothing to do with the reality that there is no "bisexual" category. Open a new thread if you feel the need to pontificate endlessly about classifications of human sexuality.

 

[KeithD]

TF are you twits talking about? This thread is about categorizing stories, of which Lit has only a few, broad categories. "Understanding bisexuality" has nothing to do with the reality that there is no "bisexual" category. Open a new thread if you feel the need to pontificate endlessly about classifications of human sexuality.

We twits are responding to what another poster posted. Take your nasty post and stick it where the sun don't shine.

 

[ElectricBlue]

TF are you twits talking about? This thread is about categorizing stories, of which Lit has only a few, broad categories. "Understanding bisexuality" has nothing to do with the reality that there is no "bisexual" category. Open a new thread if you feel the need to pontificate endlessly about classifications of human sexuality.

What, we've got "thread on topic" monitoring police now?

You've not noticed that many threads (most threads, I'd venture to say) drift "off topic?" It's what they do. Besides, the discussion about bisexuality entered this thread early when I pointed out that its broad range deserved its own category well ahead of other, smaller areas of human sexuality being written about on this site. I'd say that's on topic in terms of story categories.

 

[SimonDoom]

No, that's a narrowing logic. Bi-sexuality is not a sub-set of homosexuality, it's a sexuality of attraction to both genders.

Curiously, bi-sexuality at times seems to have more of a stigma attached to it - the rabid homosexuals say, "Oh no, you can't like women too?" and the hard-core lesbians say, "What, you like men? What are you, some kind of a freak?" It's as if the other gender somehow taints the purity of "sexual choice" - which sounds like bullshit sexual politics to me, not human beings being sexual creatures.

And then the "hetero-norm" comes along and says to the curious bloke, "Oh, you might like men? That just means you're gay." That's bullshit, too, just saying.

I don't think he's saying bisexuality is a subset of homosexuality. I think he's saying that in the peculiar world of Lit categories homosexuality is a trump category. And I think he has a point. For instance, where would you place a story about a man who always has had relationships with women but experiments with having sex with a man? Gay male. Although the man might be bi, that's not the dramatic focus of the story. Creating a whole new category might hinder rather than help readers. Perhaps the category should be renamed Gay and bi male.

 

[kurrginatorX]

KeithD, again

No, you don't fully understand what bisexuality is. You don't understand it at all.

I reacted to what you actually posted, and I don't agree that "there is no need for a separate category for bisexual since it falls within the homosexual category simply because of the homosexuality involved."

That's just as prejudicial and ignorant a statement as was the one I originally reacted to. Bisexual is sex is sex is sex, gender not mattering. It doesn't emphasize homosexual over heterosexual. It's both. You reveal you don't understand this by placing it squarely in the homosexuals realm--for a second time.

I suggest you just stop while you're behind on this.

Dude … Really? I am bisexual. Trust me. There is nothing prejudicial about it. A homosexual act is just that, a homosexual act. This does not necessarily denote that the person performing the act is a full-fledged homosexual, but let that not beleaguer the fact that the act is what it is. Are you at odds with this because of categorization of your own sexuality?

 

[kurrginatorX]

I don't think he's saying bisexuality is a subset of homosexuality. I think he's saying that in the peculiar world of Lit categories homosexuality is a trump category. And I think he has a point. For instance, where would you place a story about a man who always has had relationships with women but experiments with having sex with a man? Gay male. Although the man might be bi, that's not the dramatic focus of the story. Creating a whole new category might hinder rather than help readers. Perhaps the category should be renamed Gay and bi male.

This. Emphatically.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Gay is not a genre. Bisexual is not a genre. Lesbian is not a genre. Hetero is not a genre.

Romance is a genre. Noir is a genre. Mystery is a genre. Science fiction is a genre.

Fewer categories means putting my lesbian romance and your gay-curious romance in the same place as the hetero romances. Seperate but equal is not equal.

(User-specific filtering is all you would need to make this happen)

 

[SimonDoom]

Gay is not a genre. Bisexual is not a genre. Lesbian is not a genre. Hetero is not a genre.

Romance is a genre. Noir is a genre. Mystery is a genre. Science fiction is a genre.

Fewer categories means putting my lesbian romance and your gay-curious romance in the same place as the hetero romances. Seperate but equal is not equal.

(User-specific filtering is all you would need to make this happen)

It's not relevant whether something is or is not a "genre." The sole question is what works from the standpoint of connecting readers with the stories they want. Authors have other concerns, but from the site's standpoint, those concerns are a distant second if they matter at all. Considerations of fairness, equality, accuracy, definition, genre, conceptual fit -- none of these things really matter. What matters is whether the categories work from the readers' point of view based upon their wishes and habits.

My guess is that they pretty much do, and that the site owners are generally satisifed with how they've worked. User specific filtering would work to some extent, but it's not so useful when readers decide they want to switch from one category to another to search for a story, as I do often as a reader. In that case they would have to change their filtering profile or have multiple profiles set up. For most readers it's probably easier to do it the way the site does it now. Once you get the hang of the categories from a reader's point of view, it's not that difficult to know where to look to find a story.

Anything, theoretically, can be worthy of being made a category if a sufficiently sizable group of readers gravitates to the type of story in that category over other types of stories. If the readerships of gay romances and hetero romances are sufficiently distinct, it makes sense to put them in different categories.

 

[AwkwardMD]

It's not relevant whether something is or is not a "genre." The sole question is what works from the standpoint of connecting readers with the stories they want. Authors have other concerns, but from the site's standpoint, those concerns are a distant second if they matter at all. Considerations of fairness, equality, accuracy, definition, genre, conceptual fit -- none of these things really matter. What matters is whether the categories work from the readers' point of view based upon their wishes and habits.

My guess is that they pretty much do, and that the site owners are generally satisifed with how they've worked. User specific filtering would work to some extent, but it's not so useful when readers decide they want to switch from one category to another to search for a story, as I do often as a reader. In that case they would have to change their filtering profile or have multiple profiles set up. For most readers it's probably easier to do it the way the site does it now. Once you get the hang of the categories from a reader's point of view, it's not that difficult to know where to look to find a story.

Anything, theoretically, can be worthy of being made a category if a sufficiently sizable group of readers gravitates to the type of story in that category over other types of stories. If the readerships of gay romances and hetero romances are sufficiently distinct, it makes sense to put them in different categories.

TL;DR we have to keep separate bathrooms for whites and blacks because if we don't then the lines will be too long. Plus all my black friends say they prefer to be marginalized and isolated.

 

[AwkwardMD]

To me, it seems you try to change a working system into something not-working, only in the name of 'equality'. I think that would backfire; it is a known fact that lots of readers don't like gay-stories. You can argue about the 'correctness' of that, but it won't change the fact. I think the interest of the readers has to come first, not least because they provide the scores of the stories that are 'our' rewards. I won't benefit when my gay-story is opened ten times more, but 90% by readers who have no interest in a gay-story.

The filtering would work for old stories, but most of my stories have received most reads right after submission, when they are in the 'new story' list of the categories. Those readers don't use any filtering; they expect to find certain stories based on the category they have chosen.

And then, we may discuss and suggest, but nothing is going to change.

TL;DR I don't understand how this can help me. I fear change, and fear is emotion that does all the driving in my head. Plus it's not like a basic filtering system works on any other large sites, and I definitely did research on that before stating my opinion like it was fact.

 

[LupusDei]

TL;DR we have to keep separate bathrooms for whites and blacks because if we don't then the lines will be too long. Plus all my black friends saythey prefer to be marginalized and isolated.

You know that when you design a public building, for the same expected number of males and females you plan double the number of women bathrooms?

I hear what you're saying, and I'm all for equality (and even gender distinction removal), but this is not a relevant place or way to promote it.

This is much more about modern academic music, heavy metal, and rap mixed in the same album or concert. You may be world's best performer in all of them, but most of your audience won't understand at least one of the different flavours you offer. You will be better off performing three distinct concerts, or publishing three albums.

 

[AwkwardMD]

You know that when you design a public building, for the same expected number of males and females you plan double the number of women bathrooms?

I hear what you're saying, and I'm all for equality (and even gender distinction removal), but this is not a relevant place or way to promote it.

This is much more about modern academic music, heavy metal, and rap mixed in the same album or concert. You may be world's best performer in all of them, but most of your audience won't understand at least one of the different flavours you offer. You will be better off performing three distinct concerts, or publishing three albums.

"Modern academic music" (whatever that is), Heavy Metal, and Rap are all genres of music in the same way that Mystery and Romance are genres of literature. Of course you separate by genre.

Lit having Gay and and Lesbian categories would be like having a concert where some people are playing Heavy Metal, and then another smaller concert for all the bands that have women drummers. Not just the heavy metal bands with women drummers, but ALL of the bands (all genres) with women drummers. It has nothing to do with their music (read: genre).

 

[LupusDei]

"Modern academic music" (whatever that is), Heavy Metal, and Rap are all genres of music in the same way that Mystery and Romance are genres of literature. Of course you separate by genre.

Lit having Gay and and Lesbian categories would be like having a concert where some people are playing Heavy Metal, and then another smaller concert for all the bands that have women drummers. Not just the heavy metal bands with women drummers, but ALL of the bands (all genres) with women drummers. It has nothing to do with their music (read: genre).

Once again, you are missing the point entirely. We don't discuss the genres here. It is about consumer preferences. If enough fans that want their performers to wear leather absolutely hate women drummers, those groups will have different scenes. It's justhow marketing works. And, tried to climb the 'wrong' be sent home with witless and rotten tomatoes. But, performing on the 'right' scene, both will be loved.