Separating children from immigrant lawbreakers

[run_silent]

I asked this question in another thread. If you break the law as a US citizen and are arrested you are separated from your children and family. You are taken to jail family be damned. If you have no family or friends that will take the children they become wards of the state.

I'm not interested in that you don't like immigration policy. I'm asking what is the difference between policy for US citizens and immigrants.

 

[KeithD]

Not for a misdemeanor you don't usually, no. Citizen or not you either get a ticket for a future-date appearance or you get bail set up immediately and lawyered right away, if you want. First offense illegal entry is a misdemeanor, not a felony. And if you present yourself at the border and ask for political asylum, it isn't even that and you get additional rights. You don't get your kids pulled away from you and sent far away in either case.

That's what they've been doing, though, and Trump and his people are such loudmouths that they've publicly acknowledged that it was being done for deterrence sake--a hostage situation. Whatever gets to the courts is going to fry Trump and his people.

And I think you have been given that answer before and you just want to pretend you don't know/understand it.

And, no, the Democrats are neither not cooperating (they aren't even being consulted) nor do they believe in open borders. The Democrats aren't stopping anything being passed in the House of Representatives. The Republicans are doing that themselves. They have a majority but can't muster one and they have refused to bring the Democrats into it at all. It's an acknowledged problem that the Trump administration has screwed up by making worse. And they have no "what's next" plan. Trump and all of his people are just screwups. Total screwups.

 

[run_silent]

Kieth I am not playing stupid. Unlike your presumptions assume I know about this. If a person can't make bail (like many poor people) they are separated. I will ask if breaking into the country is a misdemeanor I would like some kind of proof.

I am willing to be proved wrong. I don't have an agenda. I just don't understand.

Edited to add I didn't mean that I don't know about this

 

[KeithD]

They aren't even being offered bail. They aren't being given access to lawyers. This has frequently been posted to the board. Read in.

Nobody needs to prove anything to you. You need to do balanced research yourself or just continue as you are. It probably doesn't matter to what happens if you never chose to take an objective look at this.

Trumpettes don't really care about the law, because Trump doesn't. This has nothing to do with a law. This was a unlawful policy set up in April with no preparation and no follow-on plan. This is just a typical Trump screwup. It was all done to try to convince those wanting to come into the country that conditions for them doing that in the States would be far worse than what they were running away from. That's the sum total of the inhumane, illegal Trump plan. And it might work, and Trump will spit on the law and the Constitution because that's what Trump does--with the help of Trumpettes.

 

[phrodeau]

Judges take families into account when sentencing. Also, families can visit prisons.

 

[run_silent]

They aren't even being offered bail. They aren't being given access to lawyers. This has frequently been posted to the board. Read in.

Nobody needs to prove anything to you. You need to do balanced research yourself or just continue as you are. It probably doesn't matter to what happens if you never chose to take an objective look at this.

Um. I thought by asking I was taking an objective looking at this. You assume I am a trump dupe and respond to me that way. Really do want me to understand or just preach at me?

 

[run_silent]

Judges take families into account when sentencing. Also, families can visit prisons.

True but not while awaiting trial. I will admit most immigrants wait to long to wait for trial.

 

[KeithD]

Um. I thought by asking I was taking an objective looking at this. You assume I am a trump dupe and respond to me that way. Really do want me to understand or just preach at me?

If you'd been reading in with an objective eye for that last week, you would have figured it out by now. Sorry if you aren't just pretending not to understand, but that's a Trumpette technique here, so it's not much of a stretch to believe someone who claims not to have figured it out by now is just another trolling Trumpette.

 

[run_silent]

If you'd been reading in with an objective eye for that last week, you would have figured it out by now. Sorry if you aren't just pretending not to understand, but that's a Trumpette technique here, so it's not much of a stretch to believe someone who claims not to have figured it out by now is just another trolling Trumpette.

Well Kieth you obviously don't believe me. I don't know what else I can say to you.

 

[run_silent]

In my state if you are arrested the state has 90 days or six months to prosecute or the case goes away. If defense asks for special circumstances the trial may go on forever and the defendant stays in jail or makes bond. Still the immigrants take to long but the defense asked for a delay. It's complicated when they proclaim persecution in there homeland. Then the courts have to investigate.

edited to add

https://www.aboutbail.com/pages/how-immigration-bail-bonds-work

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclop...et-relative-out-of-immigration-detention.html

 

[WoundedKnee]

You see the tactic?
Breaking immigration law is nothing more than a misdemeanor and now you must discuss the issue based upon the word "misdemeanor." (i.e., All over the United States, we are hunting down, with vengeance, illegals who "jaywalk" in order to destroy their families.)

You cannot criminalize the behavior of the undocumented citizen, instead you must criminalize the behavior of not just law enforcement, but that part of the political class willing to enforce law and the heroes of the story are those who break the law, give sanctuary and the politicians (and their support teams of community organizers) determined to create open borders in order to cultivate a large class of uneducated and, in their gratitude, dedicated voters.

 

[Amoebah]

Once all the poor people leave Africa, will Trump buy up the real estate cheap using Russian and Chinese money and build fabulous Hotels and Golf Courses?

 

[bellisarius]

Just to add, thousands of times a year children are separated from their parents here in the US under the mere suspicion that the child maybe endangered. In many states this can occur without ANY legal charges being filed at all. The laws that allow this to happen are based on the notion of "erring on the side of safety" with regard to the child. Many of the people, if not most, that support this sort of law are among some of the most enthusiastic protestors of what is happening on the border. A Prima Facie case of cognitive dissonance.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

I asked this question in another thread. If you break the law as a US citizen and are arrested you are separated from your children and family. You are taken to jail family be damned. If you have no family or friends that will take the children they become wards of the state.

I'm not interested in that you don't like immigration policy. I'm asking what is the difference between policy for US citizens and immigrants.

..... after a trial, for a criminal offense.

 

[run_silent]

..... after a trial, for a criminal offense.

Are you saying people don't get separated before a trial?

 

[IG_88]

..... after a trial, for a criminal offense.

You go to jail before a trial. Sometimes for quite a long time.
Of course for a criminal offense, nobody is discussing civil matters.

 

[jaF0]

I asked this question in another thread.

Shaddup BB

 

[WoundedKnee]

Just to add, thousands of times a year children are separated from their parents here in the US under the mere suspicion that the child maybe endangered. In many states this can occur without ANY legal charges being filed at all. The laws that allow this to happen are based on the notion of "erring on the side of safety" with regard to the child. Many of the people, if not most, that support this sort of law are among some of the most enthusiastic protestors of what is happening on the border. A Prima Facie case of cognitive dissonance.

And Progressives aren't at all disturbed by those conditions because they engineered most of them to "protect the children."



It's a new Catch-22!

 

[jaF0]

To clarify ....

If a parent is arrested and jailed, the child is sent to another family member or a child services/care facility. In some situations they may be placed in foster care.

They are NOT detained in kennels.

 

[bellisarius]

To clarify ....

If a parent is arrested and jailed, the child is sent to another family member or a child services/care facility. In some situations they may be placed in foster care.

They are NOT detained in kennels.

First of all that IS the same policy that immigration uses, read the friggin law.

Secondly those "kennel" photos are from the Obama era. Read the friggin' news.

 

[bestone4ever]

And Progressives

Who is fixated on a word? WoundedBrain is, that's who!

 

[jaF0]

^^ By the way, not trusting the Goo is extremely wise. They twist and manipulate access to things they do or don't support. Just like 'Rumpsuckers.

Avoid the Goo like the sticky shit it is. There are other search engines.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Who is fixated on a word? WoundedBrain is, that's who!

Do you prefer the word Liberal? Leftist? Socialist? Maybe Pragmatic Centrist to describe the polity that has emerged and birthed Antifa and the tactics of MadMaxine Waters and the baseball shooter?

 

[RobDownSouth]

How many angels fit on teh head of a pin?

This is how the RWCJ controls teh debate, we're having a linguistic debate over whether these "containment facilities" are "kennels", "cages", "windowless rooms", "rooms with chain link fences" (the latter a Fox 'n Friends favorite).

Kiddie concentration camps are wrong, period.

And NotIshmael, the vast majority of these kiddie concentration camps were created and populated under the Trump regime.

This was a result of the Trump/Sessions new policy of "zero tolerance".

The goal is "deterrence" (google "DHS John Kelley deterrence"), trying to make potential immigrants gamble with the lives of their children. If they "win", they get to immigrate. If they lose, they never see their children again.

To date, the only immigrants/refugees reunited with their children are those wealthy enough to retain a lawyer to press a federal lawsuit.

And RunSilent? Nobody believes you. You're "slow marching" the issue. So fuck you.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Secretary Hillary Clinton was proud to proclaim that she was a Progressive.

Why do all of her voters run from the label?

Because it was a loser?

Well, what's new under the sun? When they last abandoned that label, they started using the Liberal label, forcing Liberals to call themselves Libertarians and once they had, in turn, tarnished the label Liberal, they went back to Progressive knowing that most of their voters were simply ignorant of history and politics (i.e, political labels).

And the ironic thing is that Progressives/Liberals reject the label Libertarian for people such as myself and instead label Libertarians as "embarrassed Conservatives."

Even worse. Now Libertarians are Trump supporters and closet Nazis.

At least I use the word Progressive in proper context: that of the American variant of the former "Fabian Society" in England.