Grammatical Advice

[Biggalute]

Hi all, I'm writing a story where a character makes a long speech, within that speech he wants to quote others. I don't want to get into he/she said this or that, rather I'd like to quote them.
My problem is this. Is it acceptable to put quotation marks within somebody elses speech, or quotation marks within quotation marks as it were?
If not, has anyone any suggestions on a way to get around it without seeming too clunky?
Not sure if this forum is the place for these sort of questions but any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Gary x

 

[Princess_Red]

Not that i'm an expert or anything but if i do that I use apostrophes. I'd start with quotes like below-

"So, You have your text and then you would add, they said 'this is the best way to quote inside a piece of discussion/conversation.' and then end with full quotation marks."

 

[ElectricBlue]

Not that i'm an expert or anything but if i do that I use apostrophes. I'd start with quotes like below-

"So, You have your text and then you would add, they said 'this is the best way to quote inside a piece of discussion/conversation.' and then end with full quotation marks."

I'd do what Princess_Red suggests - but if it's extensive internal quotation, you might need some guidance in the text as to what's what, so you don't confuse readers.

 

[SimonDoom]

What princess red said. Use single quotation marks, via the apostrophe key, for quotes within quotes.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I would also consider italicising your quote, while also using the apostraphe to encapsulate your quote, to create visual contrast for the reader.

 

[Biggalute]

Thanks for all the replies, all very helpful. Now i just need to finish the bleedin' story x

 

[Tio_Narratore]

If it's a very long quotation, you can follow the academic practice of double-indentation (indent on left and right) and single spacing for the extended quote. Internal quotes can the be either double or single quotation marks.

 

[Hypoxia]

How did authors handle embedded quotations before indenting was invented?

 

[SimonDoom]

If it's a very long quotation, you can follow the academic practice of double-indentation (indent on left and right) and single spacing for the extended quote. Internal quotes can the be either double or single quotation marks.

I think this would look weird in fiction. It would make it look like a term paper.

In reality, this is very unlikely to come up, because in the real world, if Person A is talking to Person B and recalling a conversation Person A had with Person C, Person A is not going to remember everything Person C said, so it would be very weird to have a very long embedded quotation. The internal quotations are likely to be short, and it would be a good idea for the author not to overdo them.

 

[Hypoxia]

I think this would look weird in fiction. It would make it look like a term paper.

In reality, this is very unlikely to come up, because in the real world, if Person A is talking to Person B and recalling a conversation Person A had with Person C, Person A is not going to remember everything Person C said, so it would be very weird to have a very long embedded quotation. The internal quotations are likely to be short, and it would be a good idea for the author not to overdo them.

Another trick: The narrator says, "Let me tell you what happened," then goes on unquoted except for embedded quotations.

 

[sr71plt]

Going to different levels of quotes within quotes is just fine in fiction for this purpose. Block quoting in fiction is resisted by publishers for fiction and going to italics isn't supported by the CMS and is likely to confuse the reader, at least at initial use.

This, by the way, is where the U.S. and UK systems part ways. The U.S. system uniformly uses double quotes (") at the first level, then single quotes ('), and back to double quotes, if you go to a third level. UK style is often just the opposite (Chicago Manual of Style 16, 13.28)


Presumably Literotica will accept either as long as it is consistent.

 

[SimonDoom]

I wonder how you would do quotes within quotes, Cormac McCarthy-style, because he doesn't use quotation marks at all.

 

[sr71plt]

I wonder how you would do quotes within quotes, Cormac McCarthy-style, because he doesn't use quotation marks at all.

That probably would be the reason the McCarthy style hasn't made it into the authorities as an option.

 

[SimonDoom]

That probably would be the reason the McCarthy style hasn't made it into the authorities as an option.

It would be a disaster in the hands of anyone other than a master writer, like McCarthy, who, I am sure, is familiar with the normal rules and could follow them if he wanted to.

That's why my general attitude is, if you want to ignore the rules of grammar for your own artistic purposes, it may be successful, but it's more likely to work if you know the rules well in the first place. I generally try to follow the rules because I don't pretend to be a Cormac McCarthy.

 

[Handley_Page]

How did authors handle embedded quotations before indenting was invented?

They reset the margins on the typewriter.

 

[KeithD]

They reset the margins on the typewriter.

Or they (we, actually) just tabbed in each line of the block quote. The typewriter didn't automatically line wrap anyway.

 

[SamScribble]

The U.S. system uniformly uses double quotes (") at the first level, then single quotes ('), and back to double quotes, if you go to a third level. UK style is often just the opposite (Chicago Manual of Style 16, 13.28)

Presumably Literotica will accept either as long as it is consistent.

Indeed. For the past ten years I have followed the UK convention of using single quotes for the first level with double quotes for the quotes within. Laurel has yet to deduct points for my practice.

 

[ElectricBlue]

If it's a very long quotation, you can follow the academic practice of double-indentation (indent on left and right) and single spacing for the extended quote. Internal quotes can the be either double or single quotation marks.

Not on Lit, you couldn't. Wouldn't it just default to left justified, right ragged once the html is stripped out?

 

[SimonDoom]

Indeed. For the past ten years I have followed the UK convention of using single quotes for the first level with double quotes for the quotes within. Laurel has yet to deduct points for my practice.

When did this become the convention? I pulled a few samples of British lit off my shelves and the 19th century works seem to go both ways while the 20th century works use single quotes for first level.

I'm so accustomed to both I don't ever notice. As long as usage is consistent it's easy to follow.

 

[SamScribble]

When did this become the convention? I pulled a few samples of British lit off my shelves and the 19th century works seem to go both ways while the 20th century works use single quotes for first level.

I'm so accustomed to both I don't ever notice. As long as usage is consistent it's easy to follow.

I'm not sure that there ever was a 'changeover' date. The first time that I can recall a publisher changing my first level double quotes to single was probably in the early 1970s. However, another publisher was still specifying double-then-single as recently as 20 years ago.

'The Oxford Dictionary for Writers & Editors' - my everyday go-to reference - specifies single (') then double (").

According to the managing editor at one of my publishers 'single quotes help to make the page look less cluttered'. Who am I to argue with that?

 

[NotWise]

According to the managing editor at one of my publishers 'single quotes help to make the page look less cluttered'. Who am I to argue with that?

However it's done doesn't matter much, as long as it's consistent.

I have large quotes in quotes in several of my stories where characters tell stories to other characters. It is hard to write, and the readers probably find it hard to read. The problem isn't how to punctuate it. The problem is to make the layers of events and ideas come across to the reader.