People of Color Win Under Republicans!

[BotanyBoy]

Only in a capitalist economy. We had all of these things before there was money, except hand grenades.

Nope...since forever.

Barter system = proto capitalism.

You either had to have land/resources (means of production) or barter (exchange goods and services...what money is an exchange unit for) to get any of that shit.

If you didn't you went without.

There were no markets, which we both agreed is one of the foundations of a Free market Capitalism.

Yes there were LOL...markets have been around since cave man days, people been exchanging goods and services with one another (markets) as far back as we can possibly tell. Shit we've found sea shells that were used for money before we even left Africa.

You can't get rid of markets....socialism has been trying to realize that communist delusion for a long time and it's never worked.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletariat

One is an ideal, the other are people, with rights.

No, they are both people, they are the same thing....learn to read Texas

AGAIN......because understanding definitions of words is apparently in-fucking-possible for you I have to do it a 1000 times before it sinks in.

Definition of labor

4
a : an economic group comprising those who do manual labor or work for wages
b (1) : workers employed in an establishment (2) : workers available for employment
c : the organizations or officials representing groups of workers negotiations between labor and management

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/labor

Definition of proletariat
1 : the laboring class; especially : the class of industrial workers who lack their own means of production and hence sell their labor to live

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/proletariat

 

[psiberzerker]

Barter system = proto capitalism.

Right, just like neanderthals are proto-humans. That's what we had, before we had Capitalism. It's what Proto means.

If you didn't you went without.

No, if you didn't you went out and got it yourself, instead of paying someone to do it for you.

Yes there were LOL...markets have been around since cave man days,

Add paleontology to the list of subject you know nothing about but your assumptions.

You can't get rid of markets....socialism has been trying to realize that communist delusion for a long time and it's never worked.

Conflating Socialism, and Communisim. (And delusion, which is hilarious coming from you.)

I have to do it a 1000 times before it sinks in.

Insanity: Repeating the same mistakes over and over, and expecting a different result.

Again, I can read, and you can't conceive that you can't understand something as complex as socioeconomics just from the Vocabulary. That's 101. Socio-economics is not a 101 course.

We can't discuss the complexities of race if you have to keep looking up the difference between Labor, and Laborer. I don't have to. If you do, fine, but rereading the dictionary this compulsively doesn't change the usage of the words, or how they work in forming a sentence.

The assumption that I am simply illiterate is baseless, and DELUSIONAL.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Right, just like neanderthals are proto-humans.

LOL no they aren't, not according to the mainstream.

They are a separate hominid subspecies from modern man.

Add paleontology to the list of subject you know nothing about but your assumptions.

Are you saying cave men didn't exchange goods and services??

I've been watching Nova/NatGeo documentaries all afternoon that say otherwise....

You might want to call up all the PhD's on these shows and tell them they don't know what they are talking about.

Conflating Socialism, and Communisim.

Not at all....go read Marx.

Again, I can read,

We can't discuss the complexities of race if you have to keep looking up the difference between Labor, and Laborer.

Apparently not....you don't seem to understand one of the definitions of "labor" , the one I linked twice, is the plural of laborer.

I say again...learn to read Texas.

 

[psiberzerker]

They are a separate hominid subspecies.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/protohuman

Prefixes also mean things.

Are you saying cave men didn't exchange goods and services?

The "Caveman Days" are largely a myth, that's been debunked. So, yeah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveman

I've been watching Nova/NatGeo documentaries all afternoon that say otherwise.

So that's how you got to be an expert! Wow, I spent way too much on college! Who knew, all I needed was a dictionary, and PBS all along? I really should have made wiser economic choices, and taken the word of trolls on the internet more.

/sarcasm

Yaknow, I learned on the history channel that civilization was created by aliens from outer space.

 

[BotanyBoy]

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/protohuman

Prefixes also mean things.

Fair enough.

The "Caveman Days" are largely a myth, that's been debunked. So, yeah.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveman

Fine...early, prehistorical man.

Are you saying prehistoric mankind didn't exchange goods and services?

So that's how you got to be an expert!

Who claimed I was an expert?? Or are you just making shit up again??

Maybe time for medication??

 

[psiberzerker]

Are you saying prehistoric mankind didn't exchange goods and services?

No, I'm saying barter is a long way away from Market. Also, natural resources are a hell of a lot harder to seize as a Means of Production without a more advanced Market. They basically didn't have enough Organization for a true Capitalism, but like a lot of things, Progress was slow.

Also, pre-historic means we don't know a lot about their economy, because we don't have any records of that. I think you can probably figure out why, from the prefix, and root word.

Maybe time for medication??

Yeah, maybe you should ask your doctor. I'm not qualified to prescribe anti-psychotics. (Mostly a physical, and emotional therapist, and I don't work with anyone that crazy for my safety.)

 

[BotanyBoy]

No, I'm saying barter is a long way away from Market.

How?

Currency is the only difference.

It's still an change of goods and services.

Also, pre-historic means we don't know a lot about their economy, because we don't have any records of that. I think you can probably figure out why, from the prefix, and root word.

Uh uha....They were exchanging with one another and even had currency when writing showed up.

Some of the earliest cuneiform tablets we have are stock lists and exchange records.

So we can still be rather certain early man was exchanging goods and services with one another if capitalism was already around when writing showed up.

Yeah, maybe you should ask your doctor. I'm not qualified to prescribe anti-psychotics.

I'm not psychotic and I wasn't suggesting them for myself, I'm not the one who's making up all sorts of wild random shit and ignoring the basic definitions of all sorts of things.

 

[psiberzerker]

How?

Organization, value, language, records, scale...

Some of the earliest cuneiform tablets we have are stock lists and exchange records.

That's not prehistoric. You said "Caveman days." Phoenicia is tens of thousands of years of progress. Yes, right about then, you had something resembling a Market, but the Theocracy overshadowed it to prevent a true Capitalist Meritocracy.

This is what happens when you simplify it down to an ideal X=Y absolute definition. Societies are more complex than your false equivalencies. You skip tens of thousands of years of progress when they had Cowries in Africa.

Yeah, they had a market, but the Sea's the Means of production. (See what I did there?) So, there was a massive disparity inland, and you had a lot of people doing nothing more productive than picking up pretties, because people value them. Instead of contributing to society, because they can.

So we can still be rather certain early man was exchanging goods and services with one another if capitalism was already around when writing showed up.

It was developing. It's still developing. We still don't have a Stable Economy. That's one of the goals, we aint there yet.

I'm not psychotic and I wasn't suggesting them for myself, I'm not the one who's making up all sorts of wild random shit and ignoring the basic definitions of all sorts of things.

That was a right back atcha. Facetious. You can stop with the meds. I openly admitted I'm not qualified to proscribe them. It's insulting, and adds nothing to the discussion. You can stop with the allegations of illiteracy. They add nothing to to discussion.

You can stop with the false equivalencies, and over simplifications too. I'm not an idiot, and you're insane to keep trying to gaslight me after it not working for this long.

Good night.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Organization, value, language, records, scale...

All there for bartering....not that you need that for a market, which is just a place where exchanging goods and services happens.

I'm sorry, we've had markets since people got together to trade goods and services, LONG before writing.

That's not prehistoric.

If they were doing had full on capitalism when writing showed up (marking the end of the prehistoric era) that means they had basic trade markets in prehistoric times. Because it didn't just show up the day writing did and mankind didn't make it as a bunch of solo Rambos.

Only elite bad ass's did that.

You can stop with false equivalencies, and over simplifications too. I'm not an idiot,

Then stop posting like one.

 

[Blackandstrong]

I don't understand the title of this thread. White is a colour - or it was last time I looked at paint samples in the local D-I-Y store.

 

[psiberzerker]

All there for bartering not that you need that for a market, which is just a place where exchanging goods and services happens. I'm sorry, we've had markets since people got together to trade goods and services, LONG before writing.

Right, for let's say 10s of thousand of years. (Some time after people started building structures large enough to get together for trade, and after they huddled in caves with uncured furs.)

Okay, now for 10s of thousands of years, we had unregulated Free Markets. Which you define as "Capitalism." Yes? All right for the sake of this discussion (Not argument) let's agree that this is what we're talking about.

Now, you seem to be asserting (Correct me if I'm wrong) that Capitalist Government. Not free trade between merchants in a Free Market is a preferable system of Government, and liberal socialism destroys these markets. In practice, here in America.

Then address the example. In 1929, the unregulated Free Market, Crashed. We can debate the causes of the crash if you like, but I assure you that it wasn't "Socialism" in 1929. This led to the first 2 laws of the New Deal. By the poster child of Modern Liberalism, according to Encyclopedia Brittannica.

The "Truth in Securities Law" of 1933, and then the Securities Exchange Act of 1934.

Address the fact that the greatest economic crisis in American Capitalist History require Socialism to fix it. A socialist. The poster boy of Liberal Socialism, the guy who created the Social Security Administration, and earned a 3rd Term for saving the economy from The Great Depression.

If they were doing had full on capitalism when writing showed up (marking the end of the prehistoric era) that means they had basic trade markets in prehistoric times. Because it didn't just show up the day writing did and mankind didn't make it as a bunch of solo Rambos.

If. You haven't demonstrated that they had a "Full On Capitalism" from cuneiform tablets you haven't read, form a THEOCRACY. Phoenecia was a THEOCRACY. A pantheistic church state of Monarchs, claiming divine right to tax from Gods, under threat of divine retribution, and worshipping sphinxes. (In Greek, the word is Nemesis, for Hubris.)

Only elite bad ass's did that.

An elite badass like Dr. Dre?

 

[BotanyBoy]

Okay, now for 10s of thousands of years, we had unregulated Free Markets. Which you define as "Capitalism." Yes?

Yup, and not me but all the dictionaries/encyclopedias you continue to refuse to read apparently.

Now, you seem to be asserting (Correct me if I'm wrong) that Capitalist Government. Not free trade between merchants in a Free Market is a preferable system of Government, and liberal socialism destroys these markets. In practice, here in America.

Capitalist government? What the fuck is that?

Liberal government.....capitalist economy.

Free trade between individuals (capitalism) is a preferable to a government controlled/administered (socialist) system of economy in my opinion yes.

Socialism, economic oppression by the government destroys that yes.

BTW there is no such thing as liberal socialism, those two words are antithetical to each other, you might as well be saying some other random thing like "capitalist communism!" or "fascist anarchist" that doesn't exist.

Address the fact that the greatest economic crisis in American Capitalist History require Socialism to fix it.

What about it? You keep coming back to that as if you're going to sell me on your precious government authority....you're not.

It was a terrible idea and has set the country up for disaster.

The poster boy of Liberal Socialism

No such thing as liberal socialism, you can be liberal or a socialist...you cannot be both anymore than you can be an authoritarian anarchist or a communist capitalist.

If. You haven't demonstrated that they had a "Full On Capitalism" from cuneiform tablets you haven't read, form a THEOCRACY. Phoenecia was a THEOCRACY.

If they have markets and currency without state authority controlling their exchange.....they had capitalism.

Phoenicia is totally irrelevant, by about 3,000 years.

 

[psiberzerker]

BTW there is no such thing as liberal socialism,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_socialism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism

What about it? You keep coming back to that as if you're going to sell me on your precious government authority.

As if I'm going to get you to admit your persecution complex has to do with government oppresion, and the insuitbility of people overruled by an uncaring profit driven state. Not that I expect you too, I just like watching you trip gears in your head trying to justify your deluded worldview.

You're the one paying into the corrupt system, and telling yourself it works. Blaming socialists for your poor political and economic choices, and cherry picking ideologies like "Right Wing Liberal."

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=right+wing+liberal

It was a terrible idea and has set the country up for disaster.

You mean when it saved our economy from the Great Depression, so we had the means of production to fight world war 2? So, it set us up for the "Disaster" of freeing the world from tyranny. National Socialist tyranny.

Phoenicia is totally irrelevant, by about 3,000 years.

You brought them up. If they're irrelevant as yet another tired debate over "SOCIALISTS!" in a thread about unemployment of minorities under the Trump/Ryan administration, then don't bring them up.

(Phoenecia being where those cuneiform tablets you alluded to came from. In case you don't feel like looking that up.)

Professor irrelevant.

 

[psiberzerker]

FDR is was a Liberal Socialist. The Liberal Socialist, and the New deal became the foundation of modern Liberals. Like Bernie Sanders.

Name 1 successful "Right Wing Liberal."

 

[BotanyBoy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_socialism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National-anarchism

Wiki pages on self contradicting bullshit labels that are usually corrected within the article itself doesn't make it not self contradicting and or poorly labeled bullshit.

National-anarchism...LOL that was a funny read right there.

You're the one paying into the corrupt system, and telling yourself it works.

I'm forced to, because socialist oppression.

I don't think it works, that's why I'm a liberal and oppose it.

Blaming socialists for your poor political and economic choices, and cherry picking ideologies like "Right Wing Liberal."

Nope...wrong again.

Blaming socialist for the government oppression they promote.

And I never cherry picked any ideology "Right Wing Liberal" is entirely your creation....because Mach 2.5 to crazytown.

You mean when it saved our economy from the Great Depression,

No it just postponed it.

Too big to fail, the new new new deal, almost took us out....if we don't change quick fast and in a hurry we might not survive the next one and we will be suck eating a huge shit sandwich.

Read a history book sometime.

(Phoenecia being where those cuneiform tablets you alluded to came from. In case you don't feel like looking that up.)

Professor irrelevant.

Phoenicia is not where those tablets came from, the tablets I'm referring to predate Phoenicia by about 1700 years.

FDR is was a Liberal Socialist. The Liberal Socialist, and the New deal became the foundation of modern Liberals. Like Bernie Sanders.

Democratic socialist, even Sanders says so because he's not a fucking idiot.

You can't be a liberal and a socialist at the same time, the ideologies are directly in opposition to one another.

Like "statist anarchist" it's fucking idiotic.

The new deal isn't liberal because it oppressed some to benefit the group by force of government authority. Nothing liberal about it.

Name 1 successful "Right Wing Liberal."

You mean liberal.....because liberalism is inherently right wing.

Modern times? Ron Paul would be one of the few who qualify....liberalism is largely dead in US politics.

Historically though....

Take a look at all our liberal ass right wing as fuck founding fathers.

They didn't like paying taxes or state authority over their lives either.

 

[psiberzerker]

No it just postponed it

The New Deal, 1933-1942, postponed The Great Depression? How, the great depression started 3 years (1929) before the New Deal. Time Travel/ Ex-post-facto revisionist history? Not being able to count 3 years, in order? The New deal can not postpone something, it fixed, 3 years after it happened.

if we don't change quick fast and in a hurry we might not survive the next one and we will be suck eating a huge shit sandwich.

I'm already packed. You might not survive it, but I'm an Anarchist. that's why i support trump by stirring up trump Supporters. I hate modern Socialists like Bernie Sanders, because if he had been allowed to win, he could have postponed the collapse by 12-15 yars. (Depending on who took over from him.) He would have made an excellent Secretary of the Interior, but I want America to fail.

Read a history book sometime.

Learn to count from 1929 to 1942.

Phoenicia is not where those tablets came from, the tablets I'm referring to predate Phoenicia by about 1700 years.

Okay, you're going to have to post the cuneiform tablet from 2,200 BCE. because I really have no idea which one you're alluding to. (Also, I can't read cuneiform, only Syriac, and I'm a little rusty on that.)

The new deal isn't liberal because it oppressed some to benefit the group by force of government authority. Nothing liberal about it.

Again: "In the United States liberalism is associated with the welfare-state policies of the New Deal program of the Democratic administration of Pres. Franklin D. Roosevelt..."

https://www.britannica.com/topic/liberalism

From the article you gave me. It's the foundation of modern liberalism in America.

 

[BotanyBoy]

The New Deal, 1933-1942, postponed The Great Depression? How

Because you can't spend yourself into prosperity forever....there will always be a great depression looming on that horizon in every era of artificially pumped up prosperity.

There will always be pull back.

I'm already packed. You might not survive it, but I'm an Anarchist.

Your FURIOUS support for government authority to go and redistribute goods and services says otherwise....you should look up anarchism sometime.

Definition of anarchism
1 : a political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchism

That means no "progressive" bullshit to force people to fund PP!!!

Go ahead anarchist...tell me you support Trump de-funding PP.

 

[psiberzerker]

Because you can't spend yourself into prosperity forever....there will always be a great depression looming on that horizon in every era of artificially pumped up prosperity.

Yes, but yet again, you're skipping right past when the New Deal Ended in 1942, with the industrial capacity (Means of Production) we needed to fight Socialism. From World War II until the start of Vietnam. Korea inclusive. We went to the moon on all that money, literally. That was when Las Vegas was literally put on the map, it took Nixon to fuck it all up.

That pumped up prosperity, that lasted another quarter century. Funded the Baby Boom, and became the postcard of the American Dream.

Oh, the humanity.

The pumped up prosperity with the inevitable crash wasn't the 40s, or 50s, it was the 20s.

The socialist New Deal was literally what made America great in the first place. That's what the word Liberal means.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Yes, but yet again, you're skipping right past

No I'm not, you're just not understanding what I'm saying.

That pumped up prosperity, that lasted another quarter century. Funded the Baby Boom, and became the postcard of the American Dream.

Yes and there is GOING to be an unavoidable pullback/crash that follows it and we're looking down the barrel of that reality now.

Add in all the tech advancement making so many people obsolete with more joining them every day??

One thing everyone from FDR to Bill Clinton was right about....our current model is totally un-sustainable. We simply cannot spend other peoples money into infinity....one day we will get cut off and our society as it's understood is going to shit the bed.

The socialist New Deal was literally what made America great in the first place.

No, liberty is what made America great in the first place.

That's what the word Liberal means.

No, it doesn't Texas, use the dictionary.

 

[toeskr]

Donald Trump is making it cool to be racist again in America. I hope he dies soon.

Don a suicide vest and burka and do everyone a favor, walk quietly into the desert of your mind and trigger.

Have a great day!

 

[Blackandstrong]

Get a room, you two.

 

[psiberzerker]

No, liberty is what made America great in the first place.

So, it wasn't "Great" (An opinion) until Dec 6 1865? Because if you remember right, that tore this great nation apart.

 

[DawnODay]

The U.S. economy continued to add jobs at a solid clip in May, with nonfarm payrolls up 223,000 and the unemployment rate falling to an 18-year low of 3.8 percent, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported Friday....

Unemployment for blacks fell to a record-low 5.9 percent....​

J. Cox, Nonfarm payrolls increase by 223,000 in May, vs 188,000 estimate, CNBC (Jun. 1, 2018) (emphasis added).

The overall unemployment rate hit 3.8 percent, the lowest it has been since April 2000. Since 1955, after a postwar period of below-3-percent unemployment, the rate has been lower than it is now — 3.8 percent — in 27 months. Before 2000, the most recent time the unemployment rate was so low was in 1970.

But another metric hit a historic number. The unemployment rate among black Americans is now at 5.9 percent, the lowest it has ever been recorded....

Perhaps as important, the black unemployment rate has never been closer to the white unemployment rate....

Usually when black unemployment draws closer to white unemployment, it’s a function of spiking white unemployment rates. That’s not the case now.

As of May, the black unemployment rate is 2.4 points higher than the white unemployment rate, the first time it has ever been less than 3 points higher.​

P. Bump, The black unemployment rate has never been closer to the white unemployment rate, Washington Post (Jun 1, 2018) (emphasis added).

 

[psiberzerker]

I like your sources. Now, HOW? How did Donald Trump directly narrow the wag gap between African Americans, and European Americans?

Was it by mass deportation of Hispanics, and Middle Eastern people?

All right, then. The net effect is that People of Color still lose under the Trump Regime. You can't ignore the mass deportations, then point at a sub 1% tick in unemployment to justify it.

 

[BotanyBoy]

So, it wasn't "Great" (An opinion) until Dec 6 1865? Because if you remember right, that tore this great nation apart.

No it was great before that....without the ideal of liberty and equal treatment under the law that war would have NEVER happened.

The net effect is that People of Color still lose under the Trump Regime.

How exactly are the most wealthy, politically powerful POC on the ENTIRE PLANET, losing under Trump?