My Father in law brought a gun to Mother's Day

[Que]

B...b...but etymology!

Words are living things in the sense their meanings evolve in time. Their value rests on the fact their meanings are shared among the community of language users.

B..b..but the actual scholarly field of how words come to mean what they mean and the roots from which they are derived from are meaningless. Lexicons are living things (true) are added to all the time, (also true) so I can call a collection of apples a crate, because they are commonly found in crates.

Pointing out that a grip full of money spilled out on a bed is no longer a grip of money is not meaningless.

 

[von_Bismarck]

Thanks for agreeing with me, Queef!

The meanings of words can and do evolve in counterintuitive and apparently contradictory ways. This is how a word like sanction can come to have two superficially opposing senses.

 

[richard_daily]

I don't hate guns. Guns don't make mistakes, people do.

He should have asked permission. THAT's the gentlemanly thing to do.

I have to respectfully disagree.

No one knows that I'm carrying, and no one needs to know that I'm carrying.

I have more firearms training than the majority of police officers, and there is no requirement to let you know that I am armed before entering your residence. If you don't know me well enough to trust me, don't let me in your house. If you let me in your house enough to trust me, then trust that I know what I'm doing (which I do).

I have never had a negligent discharge and I have carried nearly every day of my life for the past 10 years. I am less likely to commit crime than nearly any other demographic in the country, including police.

 

[Que]

Thanks for agreeing with me, Queef!

The meanings of words can and do evolve in counterintuitive and apparently contradictory ways. This is how a word like sanction can come to have two superficially opposing senses.

You see, Rob? You and I can agree to disagree agreeably and we can define common areas of agreement. Even when you're trying to be disagreeable and using a cowardly sock puppet to do so.

...And as I'm sure you will agree what I said stands: that no one that knows anything about guns refers to a collection of guns as an arsenal.

 

[schism666]

Completely wrong on many levels. Especially the fact that a cop has a right to enter. Acop armed or unarmed does not have a ride to enter your residence without permission or probable cause and or a warrant.

As far as entering any place while armed you owe no duty to anyone to disclose whether or not you are armed unless and until your state has a law saying that they can post a sign specifically forbidding you entering under arms in which case you may not. There's no sign on the door saying that you can't bring a gun in then you can.

If you want your residence or business to be a gun-free zone then you need to post that prominently to let all the criminals know that there are no guns there to protect you with. You also need to assume liability for the protection of anyone who enters your establishment unarmed.

Personally, I prefer not to enter establishments which have such signs posted whether I am or am not armed. I also prefer not to associate with anti-gun nuts and their irrational thought processes It generally spills over and every other part of their being

you need to reread your first sentence and think about where you went wrong. bonus points if you get it on the first try.

 

[Que]

I have to respectfully disagree.

No one knows that I'm carrying, and no one needs to know that I'm carrying.

I have more firearms training than the majority of police officers, and there is no requirement to let you know that I am armed before entering your residence. If you don't know me well enough to trust me, don't let me in your house. If you let me in your house enough to trust me, then trust that I know what I'm doing (which I do).

I have never had a negligent discharge and I have carried nearly every day of my life for the past 10 years. I am less likely to commit crime than nearly any other demographic in the country, including police.

I agree with this with the caveat that simply sticking a gun in your pocket which you obviously don't do would be insufficient concealment. If in fact it is discernible that you're carrying concealed you might as well be carrying openly.

 

[Sean]

You see, Rob? You and I can agree to disagree agreeably and we can define common areas of agreement. Even when you're trying to be disagreeable and using a cowardly sock puppet to do so.

...And as I'm sure you will agree what I said stands: that no one that knows anything about guns refers to a collection of guns as an arsenal.

Would you say Tom Clancy knew anything about guns?

 

[Que]

you need to reread your first sentence and think about where you went wrong. bonus points if you get it on the first try.

No points for being obtuse.

Try again.

 

[coachdb18]

No points for being obtuse.

Try again.

What is it with liberals being so stereotypically arrogant and at the same time so illiterate and clueless in so many aspects of the discussions in which they imbed themselves?

 

[richard_daily]

I agree with this with the caveat that simply sticking a gun in your pocket which you obviously don't do would be insufficient concealment. If in fact it is discernible that you're carrying concealed you might as well be carrying openly.

I don't see where I stated I'd stick a gun in my pocket.

I carry with a correct holster, and typically carry an un-cocked DA/SA if I'm carrying appendix, or 4'oclock if I'm carrying a striker-fired pistol.

 

[Que]

I don't see where I stated I'd stick a gun in my pocket.

I carry with a correct holster, and typically carry an un-cocked DA/SA if I'm carrying appendix, or 4'oclock if I'm carrying a striker-fired pistol.

That's what I mean. Clearly *you* do not, else you would find yourself explaining to people why your curing which defeats the point of caring in the first place. I just mean that there are those whose idea of carrying concealed is not carrying a proper safe and secure concealed carry

 

[Que]

What is it with liberals being so stereotypically arrogant and at the same time so illiterate and clueless in so many aspects of the discussions in which they imbed themselves?

Whatever the argument or snark that they're trying to advance typically has been rebooted before so they simply snark and smugly announce your fail while exposing their actual position not at all. Sgt Spidey is the best of the best at that.

There are ideas cannot withstand scrutiny which is why progressives don't run on their actual ideas they run on platitudes and vague assurances of a brighter future. To be fair this so-called conservatives do exactly the same thing these days because there really aren't actual conservatives. It's just a question of who they want to take from and who they want to give to.

 

[Que]

Would you say Tom Clancy knew anything about guns?

I would say that he knows enough about military nomenclature to know exactly what I was talking about if he were still alive. I could see him using it in common usage in one of his novels. He would be absolutely ignorant of pro-gun culture if in one of his novel he had some redneck refer to a bunch of guns as an arsenal

I find that it's not uncommon at all for ex-military people to be fairly ignorant about guns in general. They know the basics about handling a couple of firearms that they needed for their MOS and that's about all that they know or care to know about.

Look at all the anti-gun nonsense that Rob down-south dribbles about such nonsense as "rapid-fire magazines" just for example.

 

[Sean]

I would say that he knows enough about military nomenclature to know exactly what I was talking about if he were still alive. I could see him using it in common usage in one of his novels. He would be absolutely ignorant of pro-gun culture if in one of his novel he had some redneck refer to a bunch of guns as an arsenal

I find that it's not uncommon at all for ex-military people to be fairly ignorant about guns in general. They know the basics about handling a couple of firearms that they needed for their MOS and that's about all that they know or care to know about.

Look at all the anti-gun nonsense that Rob down-south dribbles about such nonsense as "rapid-fire magazines" just for example.

What I find funniest about the RWCJ is the absolute certainty in the way they spew their bullshit, entrenched in their bastions of ignorance.

 

[removed9556]

 

[Que]

What I find funniest about the RWCJ is the absolute certainty in the way they spew their bullshit, entrenched in their bastions of ignorance.

Well we can't all be barristers specializing in rocket surgery malpractice now can we?

 

[Sean]

Well we can't all be barristers specializing in rocket surgery malpractice now can we?

Who ties your shoes for you?

 

[Que]

Forgetting about all the pro-gun/anti-gun culture wars stuff, bringing in something which might reasonably be expected to frighten the homeowner and not telling them about it is plain bad manners.

I would not bring a snake or a spider into someone's home unless I knew they were OK with that. And arguing with the homeowner - in this case, Mr Devil - about whether or not I were a responsible spider owner or whether my snake were ever allowed loose is entirely beside the point.

Que, you are normally an advocate I admire for the rights of the individual not to be ridden over roughshod. States rights and all that. Surely that argument applies to the individual homeowner?

Fair point, but unless it is an orgy, there's no reason that the other person should ever find out whether I am or am not armed. I might very well just to put on a couple of pounds in my middle-aged gut.

It's a matter of what they don't know will quite literally not hurt them. If I had ill-intentions with the guns, then their feelings would be the least of their or my concerns. If I'm simply careless and irresponsible that's another thing that wouldn't be resolved by my possibly flawed belief that I am careful and responsible. Part of being careful and responsible would be to be able to do so undetected.

Personally, I would probably attend Mr Tongues dinner party unarmed ecause I'm assuming he lives in a reasonable neighborhood and it's someplace that I can get to safely in the middle of the day and why would I want the encumbrance and responsibilities of a firearm when I could just as easily leave at home?

Spiders and snakes although some of those might be a good illustration if we're talking about non-poisonous non-harmful spiders and snakes, and a bad analogy for talking about poisonous ones. In any case I don't see myself hiding either in my pants for example.

If I successfully held a snake or spider in my pants and left the dinner party undetected I don't see that I've done them any harm at all.

Someone earlier gave a statistic of 16% of the population carrying concealed I'm not sure where that comes from or if that's even accurate and if we are talking about legal concealed carry. Bear in mind that we are talking about in gun-slinging America and in my case the gun-slinging west. Where one should presume that in any large, public space, there are multiple firearms. Conversely in your Locale one could pretty safely presume that most of the people you know that are law-abiding are unarmed.

If I knew that person was a rabid anti-gun that and just fearful of them at sight or even discussion I can't really imagine myself socializing with such a person but for the sake of discussion let's say it's a friend of a friend's I think the courteous thing to do would be to leave at home. Clearly.

 

[IG_88]

Who ties your shoes for you?

Kinda think him and coach both use velcro shoes to save the hassle.

 

[IG_88]

What is it with liberals being so stereotypically arrogant and at the same time so illiterate and clueless in so many aspects of the discussions in which they imbed themselves?

Says the guy who has said three totally wrong things in this thread alone. One you said twice. You are staggeringly moronic so you don't get to say shit about others.

 

[Que]

Who ties your shoes for you?

Much better. You do best with vague snark. It's when you try to actually elucidate a point that you falter.

 

[removed9556]

 

[Que]

Lots I want to respond to there but it is on the broader issue, and I already know we are not going to have a fruitful discussion on that.

On your last point, I think we are in broad agreement. It's the same principle as politics and religious discussion. My father in law is a lovely man but our politics are very different. So we don't talk about it. There is, rightly, no LAW stopping me from doing so, but it would be discourteous and create a bad atmosphere.

Incidentally, an awful lot of people I know are gun-owners. In rural areas many people are. But it would be rifles or shot guns, not hand guns, and of course they would not be allowed to carry them in populated areas.

I would think your areas of political disagreement are known to each other and you simply choose not to open wounds that would not be as you say fruitful for discussion or particularly fun.

But you can't very well leave those out of your mind as you're walking into their home. If a topic of discussion comes up there might be an awkward pause as they realize this Treads into your intellectual space or you might press pass into there's briefly.

I get what you're thinking about the gun being a very physical object that one could definitely leave somewhere else rather than introduce it into the environment. Even though that's not something that you personally find to be an important part of your kit for your day-to-day life and frankly it's not mine either there are people for whom it is part of how they kit up for the day.. I actually think it would be unreasonable to assume that such a person should simply leave their tool at home simply because you don't approve of their use when you have no reason to think that it's going to be used in your environment. That seems irrational. To me.

I think cell phones can be incredibly rude and I would hope although I don't know how well I would do in a dinner party situation that I could simply leave mine in my pocket and not glance at it throughout the dinner party. If I knew someone had a very very strong aversion to that intrusion into our daily lives that technology brings I think it probably would be courteous to leave that in the glove box of my car.

On that basis I kind of see your point about why one would want to do the same with a gun if you specifically were aware that that person had very strong feelings about that.

On the other hand if you don't really know one way or the other and you have good confidence that it's simply going to be concealed and unobtrusive I don't see any particular harm in introducing that into any environment. I can't imagine having a conversation with a casual acquaintance that I suspect might be less than pro-gun to say Hey listen I carry most of the time do you mind if I wonder in your house carrying because of course they're going to be wanting to know why and you're going to have to explain how difficult it is to get it properly secured rather than just keep it where you normally keep it out of sight out of mind until needed

 

[removed9556]

 

[Sean]

We are getting to the stage where almost everything you write is so alien to me that the areas of agreement are fast disappearing!

Let me try to put it as neutrally as possible. I have not been to the US, and the more I read about gun attitudes the less likely that is. My loss, I am well aware, and certainly not the US's. For someone to see carrying a gun as a normal part of getting dressed is truly, without exaggeration, as strange to me as the thought of putting on a mermaid's tail every day. n both cases I am sure people do, but in neither case can I think why. I understand, rationally, because you have no reason to lie to me, that what you say is true, and that tens of millions of Americans carry a gun everywhere they go. But emotionally that is such a world away from anything I want anything to do with.

You are as likely to suffer an attack from an armed intruder in my house as you are to suffer a shark attack in the Sahara. There is absolutely no need for a gun. I use the word absolutely there in its proper sense.

Just imagine an entire country of Daily Mail readers and you won't go far wrong.