Flashbacks: yes or no?

[AwkwardMD]

Okay, there's a difference a flashback, and a callback. I'll just use that as a distinction. What you're talking about is basically a tease. Get right up to the point that it starts getting hot, and heavy, then going off on a tangent (Any tangent) to fill out the chapter, and possibly put off the reader. That's bad in a stroker.

However, that's why I pointed out the difference between A Flashback, Foreshadow and Flashback (The end of The Usual Sispects is a masterful Example0 which can usually accomplished with a couple of lines. One earlier, and alluding to something that might happen, then another one later.

"I told you so," ia flashback at it's simplist. It's just a wink to the reader, so they remember the foreshadowing they may have overlooked the first time through. This is a classical technique used by Agatha Christie (They recently did a wonderful version of Murder on the orient Express) However, anything that can kill the mood in an Erotic story is probably best saved until after, when they break out the cigarettes, and he has to take a piss.

At that point, the sexual tension is released, and you can use it as part of the denouement. Since that's all about tying up loose ends after the climax, denouement is usually chock full of flashback.

For the purpose of this discussion, I was referring to full scene break flashbacks. Where the story, happening in the present, stops to go backwards usually to fill in big gaps of information.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Oops, said foreshadow instead of flashback. However, that's if you write Linearly, start to finish. You go back over it to proofread your draft, right? One of the tricks I use, is while I'm back there checking speling, and grammar, look for good places to drop a hint that'll pay off later. They're probably going to read it front to back, but that doesn't mean you have to write it all that way. It's part of editing.

However, as I mentioned, it also raises the difficulty level. Ideally, everyone will get that headslap moment, where they're like "Why didn't I see that?" However, some will suspect, and others will miss it, then Claim to have known it all along. You can't please everyone, but it's a risk that can really pay off in the end.

I have a story that uses the Murder of Roger Ackroyd-style unreliable narrator. I got quite a few readers, and some others were pretty quick to point out that they'd called it early on.

 

[psiberzerker]

For the purpose of this discussion, I was referring to full scene break flashbacks. Where the story, happening in the present, stops to go backwards usually to fill in big gaps of information.

Yeah, that's really better either at the beginning by way of introduction (To skip several chapters of childhood) or after an emotional high where they can cool-down, whilst learning more about the mysterious character, and not getting in the way of the impending action.

Again, it's not a rule "Never do it." Flashback, and foreshadowing is about When. So when it's best done. As a denouement is probably the best time, other than backstory/introduction.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Maybe it's your wording that is the issue:

Telling a someone new 'you should' compared to 'it might be easier to start writing flashbacks like this ... before you jump into that.'

Should is almost overbearing and as we know (or at least I do) people take online statements the wrong way all the time.

Anyway, I'm out.

Why does there have to be an issue? Why is it a binary choice that either I'm a pointless, blithering idiot OR I talk down to everyone? Why can't "I agree" or "I disagree" be on the table?

If you want to pick a fight over the way I word my critiques, go ahead. Find one and do that. I stand by those too.

 

[Kantarii]

I use some form of flashbacks in my earlier chapters to give the reader some background of what happened prior to the story taking place( important tidbits), but ultimately I will bring the things up in dialogue in say chapter 4-5 to clarify things relevant to the story. I don’t shy away from this fact about my stories. Honestly, I think it works out great for me
Kant

 

[AwkwardMD]

Yeah, that's really better either at the beginning by way of introduction (To skip several chapters of childhood) or after an emotional high where they can cool-down, whilst learning more about the mysterious character, and not getting in the way of the impending action.

Again, it's not a rule "Never do it." Flashback, and foreshadowing is about When. So when it's best done. As a denouement is probably the best time, other than backstory/introduction.

Exactly!! Flashbacks are a tool, and not a universal one. Understand how it works before you try to implement it!

 

[psiberzerker]

Why is it a binary choice

The question, in the title, was a Yes/No question, of a specific example, in context.

Also, there's multiple ways to flashback, so if you mean the full long flashback, and you don't say that. Then someone (Moi) has to come back and clarify for you.

And you're a writer, or at least present yourself as one. It doesn't go without saying.

Stop feeding the trolls.

 

[psiberzerker]

Exactly!! Flashbacks are a tool, and not a universal one. Understand how it works before you try to implement it!

Which is why I called them a tool, and compared them to an adjustable wrench, while you're fighting for 2 whole pages about not contributing to the discussion.

 

[Apisto42]

Yeah, that's really better either at the beginning by way of introduction (To skip several chapters of childhood) or after an emotional high where they can cool-down, whilst learning more about the mysterious character, and not getting in the way of the impending action.

Again, it's not a rule "Never do it." Flashback, and foreshadowing is about When. So when it's best done. As a denouement is probably the best time, other than backstory/introduction.

Sometimes it can be a rather effective strategy to hit the reader with right in the middle of a highly emotional scene. Not necessarily a “stroker” though. A favorite author of mine did a long flashback right in the middle of a soon to be divorcing couples highly emotional fight and it was very well done. It gave the reader a break for a second while also expanding the reasons for what the couple was fighting about. It’s not always bad to step back from an intense scene for a bit. Then he picked the fight back up and I was left with the “full” story while not being crushed by what happened.

But if he had not written it as well as he did, it wouldn’t have worked.

New authors, old ones, try it out however you want. You’ll know if it works.

Edited for autocorrect.

 

[AwkwardMD]

The question, in the title, was a Yes/No question, of a specific example, in context.

Also, there's multiple ways to flashback, so if you mean the full long flashback, and you don't say that. Then someone (Moi) has to come back and clarify for you.

And you're a writer, or at least present yourself as one. It doesn't go without saying.

Stop feeding the trolls.

Funny that you mentioned it earlier, but I have bad PTSD. I have no filter anymore. I'm not trying to turn this into a big discussion about me as a person, but I end up spending a lot of time in fights because I can't let things go. I don't have that political accumen that knows which fights are worth fighting.

I fight them all.

 

[psiberzerker]

I fight them all.

Yeah, well I'd rather discuss this writer to writer, than lecture to the floor, while pulling your teeth out of someone's calf. So, if you need a break, take one. It'll be here when you get back...

 

[sr71plt]

If you're trying to get published, and this will EVER see the inside of an editor's office, then you have to learn the rules.

You need to learn what is not a rule too (if you are publishing, your publisher will tell you what, if anything, the house rules are--in order for them to partner with you to get it into print. That doesn't mean they are universal rules, though).

Writing only in chronological order isn't much of anyone's rules, and most who would state that as a rule aren't rule makers for anyone else other than themselves to begin with. And they aren't being constructive in giving such advice to other writers.

Using flashbacks is a perfectly valid writing and story layout technique. There's no commonly accepted rule against it. Yes, there are limitations and issues involved in using it well--as with anything you write. As with anything you write. And you won't learn to use it well by just writing lowest-common-denominator pabulum all the time (or heeding the advice of self-proclaimed "experts" who tell you to).

And there's absolutely no reason not to experiment with it on a free-use story Web site.

 

[AwkwardMD]

So the original context, for improper use of flashbacks was...

https://www.literotica.com/s/had-enough-of-my-nieces-baiting

I'm not trying to throw this writer under the bus, but this is the context. The first half of the story is a series of events out of order because the fifth event was the most interesting, followed by the third, second, first, and then fifth.

Had he crafted his events more densely, or punched up his dialogue, he had no need to jump around like he did. It could have just been chronological and not needed to be fixed with flashbacks.

 

[psiberzerker]

Using flashbacks is a perfectly valid writing and story layout technique...
And there's absolutely no reason not to experiment with it on a free-use story Web site.

This. Thank you, pretty much my point. So again, it's when, how, and to me most importantly how much?

I prefer to keep it simple, instead of write it like say Highlander. It was pretty effective there too, but tends to confuse the reader. This is the Risk for your Reward. The minum risk for the maximum reward for me is the Foreshadow>...<Flashback, which can be accomplished in a couple sentences.

Now, on an Erotic story site, I find it's best to assume the reader is here for erotic stimulation by default. Even if I had literary pretentions, (which I don't) I'd probably post excepts and link to the complete work for those whore interested in reading a romance novel with a big emotional climax at the end.

I'm pretty sure know your audience is in the rules.

 

[AwkwardMD]

This. Thank you, pretty much my point. So again, it's when, how, and to me most importantly how much?

When, how, and how much are tough distinctions to pass on to fellow writers in less than 500 or 1000 words. I wouldn't say that that I give myself wordcount limitations, but reading someone else's work for the purpose of offering critical advice is time consuming.

Like, really really time consuming.

When you see new writer after new writer making these baroque, oblique, and unnecessary inclusions of flashbacks, eventually it kind of sinks in that people in general understand what they are without seeing their real purpose. My rule presupposes that no matter what I tell people today, they'll grow out of it later with experience and knowledge.

I would encourage ANYONE who is reading this to offer more opinions to any new reader that asks on the feedback forum. I know that when I was new, I was dying for someone to look at one of my stories and 'get it'.

 

[psiberzerker]

reading someone else's work for the purpose of offering critical advice is time consuming.

I respectfully suggest that with your anger management issues, and impatience, this might not be a constructive use for your time.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I respectfully suggest that with your anger management issues, and impatience, this might not be a constructive use for your time.

That is the nicest way anyone has ever said that. Cheers.

 

[psiberzerker]

That is the nicest way anyone has ever said that. Cheers.

Writer to writer. I have PTSD too, but I also work as a therapist with other survivors of sexual abuse. (Most specifically Covert Incest.)

 

[AwkwardMD]

Writer to writer. I have PTSD too, but I also work as a therapist with other survivors of sexual abuse. (Most specifically Covert Incest.)

Maximum respect. My writing is my primary therapy, and a good therapist is worth their weight in diamonds.

I've given feedback to hundreds of writers over the years. On this site and others. A lot of people want feedback but don't want criticism, and yeah that tends to devolve into an argument (which is not in my nature to back down from).

But a lot of others are thankful for it. I have asked for critical feedback on my own stories, and been thankful for the criticisms I received. I subject myself to the same scrutiny I put on others, and at the end of the day I really think I'm helping.

 

[sr71plt]

This. Thank you, pretty much my point. So again, it's when, how, and to me most importantly how much?

Probably the most useful "guidance" in considering using the flashback technique is to use flashback sections when/where/as they serve/progress/clarify the story arc and then (unless the point is to temporarily confuse and/or call the reader to heightened attention) to clearly identify when they are being used--sectioning them off and/or providing identification of them as you go into them or when you've come out of them. Setting up confusion is a standard technique of story writing (dilemma/setting the dimensions of the dilemma and working at putting them in order/resolution) and for engaging the reader. There are various ways of helping the reader out of the confusion. Flashbacks provide one of those techniques ("Oh, yeah, this is happening now because that happened back then--and this is when I need to be folding that into my understanding of the dilemma/resolution of the story, not back when it actually happened.")

 

[AwkwardMD]

Probably the most useful "guidance" in considering using the flashback technique is to use flashback sections when/where/as they serve/progress/clarify the story arc and then (unless the point is to temporarily confuse and/or call the reader to heightened attention) to clearly identify when they are being used--sectioning them off and/or providing identification of them as you go into them or when you've come out of them. Setting up confusion is a standard technique of story writing (dilemma/setting the dimensions of the dilemma and working at putting them in order/resolution) and for engaging the reader. There are various ways of helping the reader out of the confusion. Flashbacks provide one of those techniques ("Oh, yeah, this is happening now because that happened back then--and this is when I need to be folding that into my understanding of the dilemma/resolution of the story, not back when it actually happened.")

Way to prove me wrong! Cheers!

EDIT: Seriously, that is fantastic writing advice. Many Story Feedback writers would benefit from clear advice like that.

 

[sr71plt]

Now, on an Erotic story site, I find it's best to assume the reader is here for erotic stimulation by default.

I think that anyone who's been here for years can vouch that I've been posting that for over a decade--and am regularly demonized for saying that by folks who believe everyone is writing here to develop toward a Pulitzer Prize--and that they (the self-nominated experts) have the expertise to drag other writers there whether or not they've identified that as their goal.

 

[psiberzerker]

Okay, Cunfusion/Twist is to me bad writing. Personally, I don't like it, and it puts me off. probably, because i'm more confusion resistant than the average bear (In the Gayest sense) because i don't think linearly in the first place.

Confusion/Twist is how Shamalan writes, and it works on his own joints for varying degree, but then The Last Airbender basically got crushed by the wrong guy trying to adapt a children's cartoon, and being unable to abandon his habit of confusing the reader.

i prefer not to confuse the reader, but misdirect them. Lead them to the assumption that they do know what's going on, when in fact they do for the most part, and they stay engaged. (A lot of readers will just give up in confusion, and never reach the resolution.)

However, this confidence also allows the reader to overlook the Minor details, which I can callback in the denouement. These are typically the psychological aspects, like the particular ticks of a "Hero" that turns out to be a Power Assertive Malignant Narcissist (Holmes&Holmes) but because the trappings of that overlap with the heroic trappings like "Courage," and "Confidence" the reader wants to see the hero as Just a hero.

Not also someone who's capable of say, aquaintance raping with qualuudes. (Just a random example, not a story I've actually written out yet, but more of a Work in Progress.) Here's where the Full Blown Flashback Sequence is in order, because the victim is going to be surpressing the memory anyway, until she can't any more...

Unfortunately, I can't publish that here, anyway. So, I don't mind the massive spoiler.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I think that anyone who's been here for years can vouch that I've been posting that for over a decade--and am regularly demonized for saying that by folks who believe everyone is writing here to develop toward a Pulitzer Prize--and that they (the self-nominated experts) have the expertise to drag other writers there whether or not they've identified that as their goal.

I would love to see you contributing actual advice in the story feedback forum, where people are (metaphorically) dying to have experienced writers read their work and help them improve.

 

[TxRad]

I would love to see you contributing actual advice in the story feedback forum, where people are (metaphorically) dying to have experienced writers read their work and help them improve.

He has for almost a dozen years now. A lot of us have but other commitments have cut our time down.