Flashbacks: yes or no?

[AwkwardMD]

Awkward's comment was in my Story Feedback thread about Mary and Alvin.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1471657

Obviously, I disagree, although Awkward's point that authors frequently use flashbacks to fix mistakes is well taken..

My Fall And Rise did it interestingly because you told two stories in parallel as a contrast. That had a lot of power.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I was wondering if this was the literary term, or the PTSD term, just reading the title. In stories where sexual abuse, or some other trauma is key to a character's Motivation, and where it's revealed in part of the story, I quite often do the full Triggered Flashback. (PTSD) This is also a Literal flashback, without the foreshadowing, so that the other character/s and readers can finally understand why she avoids the restroom, or even looking at it, and holds it all day. For example. This is one of the mysteries you can foreshadow with quirks, affect like victim posture, or outbursts of anger, until finally someone is forced to ask "What's wrong with you!?"

That's one atypical way I use it in my writing, but I'm neither a stroker that reveals her bra size in the first paragraph, nor a "Novelist" with pretensions of being a legitimate author.

Trauma reveal is a reason I've had flashbacks in my own work. It can be SUPER powerful. Like over 9000.

 

[KindofHere]

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[AwkwardMD]

Write however you want to. If it's good, it's good, if it's not, it's not.

That's disingenuous too.

If I submitted my grocery list to Lit and then asked for tips on how to make it more sexy, you would have zero suggestions?

 

[MelissaBaby]

Mt Fall And Rise did it interestingly because you told two stories in parallel as a contrast. That had a lot of power.

Thank you. I think one of the reasons why it worked was because I was constantly thinking in terms of resonance. I tried to subtly pair events and even small details in the two timelines. Most of that probably went by most readers, but if nothing else, it kept me focused. Many readers did notice that the opening lines of the first chapter and the closing lines of the last reflected on each other. I took some pride in that.

 

[AwkwardMD]

It did work, although I'm not too proud to say I missed that self-reference.

 

[KindofHere]

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[AwkwardMD]

Something being good has nothing to do with someone else's suggestions. There will always be suggestions, but at some point: it's done.

Is your life one big debate?

And, write however you want to write.

If you're NOT here to contribute to a discussion, then why are you here?

 

[KindofHere]

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[psiberzerker]

Arguing about it isn't adding anything to this discussion.

 

[LoquiSordidaAdMe]

It's also worth noting that my rule about telling stories chronologically is a teaching rule that has more to do with helping a writer understand that stories should have beginnings, middles, and ends. Flashbacks muck with the sequence and muddy the learning process.

Once writers graduate past the basics there are all kinds of neat storytelling tricks to play with, but it's a mistake to play with them too soon.

Ok, I see your point here, and to an extent, I can agree with it. Novice writers do need to understand how events progress in a story. But that is not a difficult thing to grasp, and once a writer has, it can be fun to play around with the order of events to see what effects can be achieved. I'll agree that a flashback CAN be used to clumsily cover a mistake - "oh, I forgot to tell you this." - but that's not the only use.

The Mary and Alvin thread was one of many (not the most recent) in which I have tried to caution new writers away from the dreaded flashback.

See, I think if MB had told this story chronologically, starting with Alvin as a teenager, she would have been three or four (or more) chapters in before the title characters even met. Readers would have started reading a tragic story about Alvin and Bonnie, which would have abruptly changed into a tragic story about Mary and Wyatt, before becomeing the actual story of Mary and Alvin that MB wants to tell. By using flashbacks, MB is able set up the story she's actually telling, hook the reader on that, and still provide the exposition readers need to understand the characters. It's not covering a mistake, it's good story telling.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Something being good has nothing to do with someone else's suggestions. There will always be suggestions, but at some point: it's done.

Edit: How does your question make my statement disingenuous? I say write how you want, it's good or not, your response is to write a list and then ask for suggestions, meaning you're not even close to done nor do you think it's good enough to finish.

Is your life one big debate?

And, write however you want to write.

This thread started because a writer asked for feedback. I gave feedback, which required me to form an opinion. The OP thought the opinion was worth talking about, so here I am defending my point.

Clearly the original author, iamgroot6969, thought his work was complete and submitted it. It wasn't incomplete. Do we need to devolve further into a discussion on what is and what is not an opinion too?

 

[8letters]

Maybe it's because I'm just a porn writer, but I can't imagine when having a flashback would be a good idea. I'm trying to build sexual tension as I go in the story and suddenly zipping off to the past seems very counter-productive.

 

[KindofHere]

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[AwkwardMD]

It's the simplest contribution that everyone trying to be creative will come to realize one day.

"I'm older than you, ergo your argument is invalid. You'll eventually agree with me."

I've been writing for twenty one years now. My ability to share opinions is rooted in my outspokenness, not in some creative malaise.

 

[psiberzerker]

Novice writers do need to understand how events progress in a story.

Okay, but only if they have any intent on Professional writing. Again, some people just come here for a quick stroker, and really only want as little as possible in the way before they get to the sexual action. Here, the Context of using flashback is important.

[Ever since she lost her virginity, Caire found that she really likes a little...]

If you're trying to get published, and this will EVER see the inside of an editor's office, then you have to learn the rules.

If not, we don't need a novice editor to tell us how it's done.

 

[KindofHere]

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[AwkwardMD]

Okay, but only if they have any intent on Professional writing. Again, some people just come here for a quick stroker, and really only want as little as possible in the way before they get to the sexual action. Here, the Context of using flashback is important.

[Ever since she lost her virginity, she's found that she really likes a little...]

If you're trying to get published, and this will EVER see the inside of an editor's office, then you have to learn the rules.

If not, we don't need a novice editor to tell us how it's done.

The OP took my rule from a request for feedback in the Story Feedback forum. They, the author, were asking for help. That's not the same as me beating people's doors down insisting that they follow some abstract code of literary conduct (which I don't do)

 

[psiberzerker]

A more productive discussion might be when to foreshadow, and how it can be used affectively, than who's opinion is better than whom's...

 

[psiberzerker]

(which I don't do)

Never said you did. It takes at least 2 to argue.

 

[AwkwardMD]

You just talk and talk, but you don't say anything, but you try to be clever about it. Have fun with that.

You've lost sight of the fact that the argument is one I started by taking a stance: flashbacks are bad. I have no problem stating a case and standing by it. Which I do.

On the whole, flashbacks are overused and poorly understood. That doesn't mean they can't be done or done well, but when new writers ask for help that is fair criticism.

 

[AwkwardMD]

A more productive discussion might be when to foreshadow, and how it can be used affectively, than who's opinion is better than whom's...

I think foreshadowing is really tough on Lit, brcause so many writers don't have much more than their current chapter in hand. Foreshadowing events you're going to write in six months requires sticking to your plan and not letting the story get away from you.

I am shit at foreshadowing. I usually have my stories plotted out before writing but making any specific forward references is hard for me. Too impatient.

EDIT: I wish I had the patience to sit on work and finesse early chapters with specific references to later stuff.

 

[psiberzerker]

Maybe it's because I'm just a porn writer, but I can't imagine when having a flashback would be a good idea. I'm trying to build sexual tension as I go in the story and suddenly zipping off to the past seems very counter-productive.

Okay, there's a difference a flashback, and a callback. I'll just use that as a distinction. What you're talking about is basically a tease. Get right up to the point that it starts getting hot, and heavy, then going off on a tangent (Any tangent) to fill out the chapter, and possibly put off the reader. That's bad in a stroker.

However, that's why I pointed out the difference between A Flashback, Foreshadow and Flashback (The end of The Usual Sispects is a masterful Example0 which can usually accomplished with a couple of lines. One earlier, and alluding to something that might happen, then another one later.

"I told you so," ia flashback at it's simplist. It's just a wink to the reader, so they remember the foreshadowing they may have overlooked the first time through. This is a classical technique used by Agatha Christie (They recently did a wonderful version of Murder on the orient Express) However, anything that can kill the mood in an Erotic story is probably best saved until after, when they break out the cigarettes, and he has to take a piss.

At that point, the sexual tension is released, and you can use it as part of the denouement. Since that's all about tying up loose ends after the climax, denouement is usually chock full of flashback.

 

[KindofHere]

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[psiberzerker]

I think foreshadowing is really tough on Lit, brcause so many writers don't have much more than their current chapter in hand. Foreshadowing events you're going to write in six months requires sticking to your plan and not letting the story get away from you.

I am shit at foreshadowing. I usually have my stories plotted out before writing but making any specific forward references is hard for me. Too impatient.

Oops, said foreshadow instead of flashback. However, that's if you write Linearly, start to finish. You go back over it to proofread your draft, right? One of the tricks I use, is while I'm back there checking speling, and grammar, look for good places to drop a hint that'll pay off later. They're probably going to read it front to back, but that doesn't mean you have to write it all that way. It's part of editing.

However, as I mentioned, it also raises the difficulty level. Ideally, everyone will get that headslap moment, where they're like "Why didn't I see that?" However, some will suspect, and others will miss it, then Claim to have known it all along. You can't please everyone, but it's a risk that can really pay off in the end.