Flashbacks: yes or no?

[SimonDoom]

AwkwardMD posted something on another thread that I thought would be a good subject for discussion, taking the position that flashbacks should be avoided in stories, and that one generally should tell the story in chronological order (I hope I am doing justice to AwkwardMD's position -- if not, please correct me).

I don't agree with this position. I think there are many stories in which pieces of information, memories, data, or bits of narrative from a time frame before the main narrative have to be revealed, but it makes no sense to start the story with them. So long as using flashbacks isn't overdone, a flashback is a better way sometimes to tell what happened than to tell it chronologically.

My impression from most sources on writing is that there is no categorical rule against flashbacks, but that everyone agrees they need to be handled carefully. Good general guidelines:

1. Use them sparingly.
2. Keep them as short as they can be.
3. In a flashback, tell only what really needs to be told, so you can get back to the main narrative.
4. Use an appropriate triggering device to start a flashback.
5. Use a triggering device to snap somebody out of a flashback.
6. Make sure the flashback advances the story.

 

[NotWise]

My impression from most sources on writing is that there is no categorical rule against flashbacks, but that everyone agrees they need to be handled carefully. Good general guidelines:

1. Use them sparingly.
2. Keep them as short as they can be.
3. In a flashback, tell only what really needs to be told, so you can get back to the main narrative.
4. Use an appropriate triggering device to start a flashback.
5. Use a triggering device to snap somebody out of a flashback.
6. Make sure the flashback advances the story.

Flashbacks can be hard for readers to follow, and as your rules suggest, they can be abused. One of my early stories has a flashback sequence that I used for two things: to avoid starting the section a day earlier just to get in one scene, and to create a transition into the next scene. I thought it was clever. The commentators punished me for it because it was hard to follow. I edited it later to make things clearer.

One way to avoid using a flashback is to have a character recall the tale in dialogue. Flashbacks are often narrative-heavy, and having a character relate it in dialogue helps avoid the narrative.

 

[LoquiSordidaAdMe]

AwkwardMD posted something on another thread that I thought would be a good subject for discussion, taking the position that flashbacks should be avoided in stories, and that one generally should tell the story in chronological order (I hope I am doing justice to AwkwardMD's position -- if not, please correct me).

I didn't see AwkwardMD's original post, but based on SD's description, I also have to disagree about telling stories in chronological order. Often, the first part of the story is not the most interesting. This is the case with my current work in progress.

In order to hook the reader, I want to start from the most interesting part of the narrative. But there are - I don't want to say "boring", so let's say "less interesting" - events that happened earlier that the reader will need to know. So I flashback to them as needed.

I actually do it frequently in short bursts. The first half of the story has lots of little flashbacks every few paragraphs. The alternative would have been been a big info-dump of exposition right up front. Instead I tried to weave that exposition into the narrative with flashbacks.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Reposted soap box time

I am not a professional writer. I am not an important critic that anyone wants to, or should be attempting to, impress. Nobody should be writing for the sake of meeting rules that I write by, nor should anyone be overjoyed/angry at getting/not getting my stamp of approval. I'm not just nobody famous, I'm nobody period.

That's important to understand because I expect that every writer I try to help will one day grow beyond the need for my help. They will figure shit out on their own, and they won't need me or anyone else to tell them that their story is good. When that day comes, write all the flashbacks and God characters you want.

Until then, start small. Avoid getting behind the wheel of an $800,000 car until you know how to drive a $500,000 car and all the power that brings. A flashback is not a bad thing. It's just a tool with a specific purpose. You don't use a hammer on screws.

Let's say we're writing a story where the protagonist is led down a dark path that ends with him killing his best friend. A flashback placed at the tail end of the story, showing a younger, uncorrupted, happy protagonist, paints a powerful picture of the journey you have been witness to, and reminds you that human beings tend to be the sum of their life's experience rather than truly evil at the core. Your protagonist-villain was someone's son or daughter once upon a time.

THAT is how you use a flashback. Flashbacks are great, and they have enormous storytelling potential. Using it here, to show last friday, where we saw some thigh, is egregious. Like driving your $800,000 car to the end of the driveway to get your mail from the mailbox.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

[AwkwardMD]

In order to hook the reader, I want to start from the most interesting part of the narrative. But there are - I don't want to say "boring", so let's say "less interesting" - events that happened earlier that the reader will need to know. So I flashback to them as needed.

"I accidentally bought screws at the store, but I don't have a screwdriver at home. I bet if I hit them hard enough with a hammer, they might still work."

You are in control of your story, not the other way around. It is not an inevitability that story beginnings are bland, and to give up on making your beginning interesting is unfortunate. Learning to fix that on your own, rather than than using an inappropriate tool to sidestep the problem, is a big growth opportunity for you.

EDIT: it is worth noting that my area of struggle is the middle. I have had to work hard to keep the middles of some of my stories from being bland, and being honest woth myself about that was tough. JBJ called me out on it once upon a time.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I didn't see AwkwardMD's original post, but based on SD's description, I also have to disagree about telling stories in chronological order. Often, the first part of the story is not the most interesting. This is the case with my current work in progress.

In order to hook the reader, I want to start from the most interesting part of the narrative. But there are - I don't want to say "boring", so let's say "less interesting" - events that happened earlier that the reader will need to know. So I flashback to them as needed.

I actually do it frequently in short bursts. The first half of the story has lots of little flashbacks every few paragraphs. The alternative would have been been a big info-dump of exposition right up front. Instead I tried to weave that exposition into the narrative with flashbacks.

Awkward's comment was in my Story Feedback thread about Mary and Alvin.

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=1471657

Obviously, I disagree, although Awkward's point that authors frequently use flashbacks to fix mistakes is well taken.

I have played with timelines in both my series. In My Fall and Rise, I began the narrative at the pivotal midpoint, then the second chapter several years earlier. Chapter three picked up from the end of Chapter One, and from that point, the two timelines are told in alternating chapters. Only the concluding chapter moves from one timeline to the other (excluding a brief reminiscence in Chapter One).

I came up with this time scheme simply because one timeline is, as the title suggests, "The Fall" and the other "The Rise". If told in chronological order, I didn't think I'd keep more than a handful of readers through six chapters of downward spiral. A few readers who were following along chapter by chapter were confused by the first few chapters, but seem to have caught on, and those reading it all at once don't seem to have had any problem following. The fact that every chapter but the first is rated 4.50+ would seem to indicate that it worked. (That first chapter has sat at 4.49 and driven me nuts for almost a year now.) I think telling the story in the first person was vital to making it work.

In plotting Mary and Alvin, my thinking was that the relationship itself was "the protagonist". Yet, the backstory of each partner is critical information. A central theme in pretty much all my writing is that we are the products of our pasts, for good or bad, and that reckoning with that is a key component in every relationship. So I followed a pattern; Chapter One is entirely contemporary, Chapter Two contains flashbacks that tell some of Mary's backstory, Chapter Three some of Alvin's, rinse and repeat. As I am working on Chapter Nine right now, the bulk of backstory will be caught up. The lowest rated chapter is 4.72, so again, it must work for most readers.

 

[AwkwardMD]

The Mary and Alvin thread was one of many (not the most recent) in which I have tried to caution new writers away from the dreaded flashback.

 

[AwkwardMD]

It's also worth noting that my rule about telling stories chronologically is a teaching rule that has more to do with helping a writer understand that stories should have beginnings, middles, and ends. Flashbacks muck with the sequence and muddy the learning process.

Once writers graduate past the basics there are all kinds of neat storytelling tricks to play with, but it's a mistake to play with them too soon.

 

[oggbashan]

My story Bell Rock is a series of switches between present day and the past. It seemed to work reasonably.

I see nothing wrong with flashbacks as long as the reader doesn't get confused. Unfortunately with some readers even a straight chronological story is enough to confuse.

 

[MelissaBaby]

It's also worth noting that my rule about telling stories chronologically is a teaching rule that has more to do with helping a writer understand that stories should have beginnings, middles, and ends. Flashbacks muck with the sequence and muddy the learning process.

Once writers graduate past the basics there are all kinds of neat storytelling tricks to play with, but it's a mistake to play with them too soon.

Following rules has never been one of my prominent characteristics.

 

[AwkwardMD]

No one is going to get butthurt if you present ideas that conflict with anyone elses. I think Mark Twain said something about the mark of an educated mind was being able to entertain opposing viewpoints without agreeing with them.

 

[sr71plt]

Oh, god, yes, let's all write short stories one way and claim we give the rules. That'll save readers a whole lot of time in reading. All they'll have to do is read the title and they're done.

 

[SimonDoom]

No one is going to get butthurt if you present ideas that conflict with anyone elses. I think Mark Twain said something about the mark of an educated mind was being able to entertain opposing viewpoints without agreeing with them.

Amen. One of the uses of a forum like this is being exposed to viewpoints different from one's own. If we get our feelings hurt every time someone disagrees with us we're not going to learn as much as we would otherwise.

I didn't mean to call you out or make a personal statement by attaching your name to this perspective. I thought it was an issue worthy of discussion, and you had staked out a strong and interesting point of view.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Oh, god, yes, let's all write short stories one way and claim we give the rules. That'll save readers a whole lot of time in reading. All they'll have to do is read the title and they're done.

You are the Tea Party of the Lit forums. You don't have any opinions of your own or principles that you stand by, but you're definitely against a lot of things and you're not afraid to show it.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Amen. One of the uses of a forum like this is being exposed to viewpoints different from one's own. If we get our feelings hurt every time someone disagrees with us we're not going to learn as much as we would otherwise.

I didn't mean to call you out or make a personal statement by attaching your name to this perspective. I thought it was an issue worthy of discussion, and you had staked out a strong and interesting point of view.

You're fine. I have always tried to explain that my critiques and feedback are only my own flawed opinion, but they're opinions I believe in and share for mutual benefit because open discussion breeds growth

 

[TxRad]

You are the Tea Party of the Lit forums. You don't have any opinions of your own or principles that you stand by, but you're definitely against a lot of things and you're not afraid to show it.

Actually, he's one of the best informed people around on writing and editing. If you listen to him, you might actiually learn something. You're rules apply to you and only you. The rest of us are free to chose if we want to use flashbacks.

I've used them in several stories. The first story I ever wrote was half finished when I realized the middle needed to be the start. It made the story flow better and cleared up several points that were missing from the original start. The story wasn't supposed to be a novel, just a short story about an event. It took on a life of its own. In paperback it is almost 300 pages.

Use what the story needs, where it needs it.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Actually, he's one of the best informed people around on writing and editing. If you listen to him, you might actiually learn something. You're rules apply to you and only you. The rest of us are free to chose if we want to use flashbacks.

I've used them in several stories. The first story I ever wrote was half finished when I realized the middle needed to be the start. It made the story flow better and cleared up several points that were missing from the original start. The story wasn't supposed to be a novel, just a short story about an event. It took on a life of its own. In paperback it is almost 300 pages.

Use what the story needs, where it needs it.

A) Okay. It's almost like you haven't read the thread, but okay.

B) "Yuh huh cus I've done it" is not a good rule for teaching (and remember, it's a teaching rule). If Evel Knievel had successfully jumped the Snake River on a motorcycle, it would still be sound advice to tell kids not to try to jump over a river on a motorcycle.

 

[NotWise]

It's also worth noting that my rule about telling stories chronologically is a teaching rule that has more to do with helping a writer understand that stories should have beginnings, middles, and ends. Flashbacks muck with the sequence and muddy the learning process.

Once writers graduate past the basics there are all kinds of neat storytelling tricks to play with, but it's a mistake to play with them too soon.

From the Cambridge Dictionary:

pedantic

adjective US

caring too much about unimportant rules or details and not enough about understanding or appreciating a subject: Professor Harris had a narrow, pedantic approach to history that put us to sleep

I guess there are worse things than being pedantic. JS Bach was known in his lifetime more as a strict pedagogue than as a great composer.

 

[SimonDoom]

Here's a gentle suggestion:

How about if we focus on the topic and not upon our respective right/authority/qualifications to opine on the topic. I'm genuinely interested in people's perspectives on this issue.

 

[TxRad]

A) Okay. It's almost like you haven't read the thread, but okay.

B) "Yuh huh cus I've done it" is not a good rule for teaching (and remember, it's a teaching rule). If Evel Knievel had successfully jumped the Snake River on a motorcycle, it would still be sound advice to tell kids not to try to jump over a river on a motorcycle.

Oh yes, I read every word of it but I don't think you read all of my post because you skipped over the first paragraph completely.

I didn't say anything about it being a bad rule for any reason. If you had read my last line you would also understand my point of view.

As for teaching, who is doing the teaching? And who are you trying to teach? What are your teaching credentials? That was a lot of SR's point that you seemed to have missed. Part of mine also.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I guess there are worse things than being pedantic. JS Bach was known in his lifetime more as a strict pedagogue than as a great composer.

I should only be so lucky.

 

[psiberzerker]

Foreshadowing, and flashback raise the Difficulty of the work. That's all, cliches should be avoided. Flashback, or callback is a useful tool for bringing back something that was forshadowed earlier.

Going back to before the story, or something that was left out of the narrative, Flashback without foreshadowing should probably be avoided. If you're going for a literary classic, and not a stroker. if you're sticking to the rules of 3 act structure, climax, denouement...

Keep in mind that this is a porn/smut/erotic literature site, not a Creative Writing Class. You can play by the rules, or not. You can give detailed backstories with motivations (Flashback is useful for backstory, insted of starting early, then adding [A few years later...])

They're tools. That's all. Advice like avoid Flashbacks is like telling a mechanic to avoid using an adjustable wrench, because it might round off a bolt. Yeah, but then again, in a real engine compartment, there's bolts you just cant reach with anything else. See what i mean?

Also, some people just come here for something to read while they fap.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Oh yes, I read every word of it but I don't think you read all of my post because you skipped over the first paragraph completely.

I didn't say anything about it being a bad rule for any reason. If you had read my last line you would also understand my point of view.

As for teaching, who is doing the teaching? And who are you trying to teach? What are your teaching credentials? That was a lot of SR's point that you seemed to have missed. Part of mine also.

Who is ever the one doing the teaching? Words are false constructs that have no meaning! What is the point in trying if we're all just going to die tomorrow?

Postmodern deconstruction can be very useful, but using it to tear down the legitimacy of everyone around you while never presenting an opinion of your own is disingenuous. I can point to where Pilot does that in this thread. Can you say different?

On the same page, I can point to where I said that my own opinion was nothing more than that and that I'm not a professional or definitive source. That does not mean that my rule isn't a good one, or isn't worthy of consideration.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Here's a gentle suggestion:

How about if we focus on the topic and not upon our respective right/authority/qualifications to opine on the topic. I'm genuinely interested in people's perspectives on this issue.

Yeah, I tried that.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/11R5KYi6ZdP8Z2/giphy.gif

 

[psiberzerker]

I was wondering if this was the literary term, or the PTSD term, just reading the title. In stories where sexual abuse, or some other trauma is key to a character's Motivation, and where it's revealed in part of the story, I quite often do the full Triggered Flashback. (PTSD) This is also a Literal flashback, without the foreshadowing, so that the other character/s and readers can finally understand why she avoids the restroom, or even looking at it, and holds it all day. For example. This is one of the mysteries you can foreshadow with quirks, affect like victim posture, or outbursts of anger, until finally someone is forced to ask "What's wrong with you!?"

That's one atypical way I use it in my writing, but I'm neither a stroker that reveals her bra size in the first paragraph, nor a "Novelist" with pretensions of being a legitimate author.