How much is too much?

[JasonClearwater]

And whose opinion matters?

In the writing of any erotic material, I suspect most of us follow our instinct when it comes to the inclusion of graphic details. We write what we enjoy reading.

But has anyone experimented deliberately with the way they write the sex, to see if their core audience enjoyed their work more or less? (Chloe, you experiment a lot, is this something you've tried?). This, vs attracting a different audience.

The reason I ask, is that the people I know (vs the anon audience) often comment on the graphic nature of the sex in my work. 'Less is more' is frequently brought up.

I personally like sordid details, but it occurs to me that there may be a large portion of readers who don't. Possibly more than those who do.

Musing.

 

[NotWise]

And whose opinion matters?

To me, it's the reader's opinion that matters, but then the readers who agree with you may gravitate to your stories. In the long run, maybe your readers share your opinion.

In the writing of any erotic material, I suspect most of us follow our instinct when it comes to the inclusion of graphic details. We write what we enjoy reading.

That's never been true for me. The way I write the erotic material is shaped by other goals I have for the story. I don't know what would happen if I followed my instinct. I might just write the same sex over and over. Wait, maybe I write the same sex over and over anyway.

But has anyone experimented deliberately with the way they write the sex, to see if their core audience enjoyed their work more or less? (Chloe, you experiment a lot, is this something you've tried?). This, vs attracting a different audience.

I experiment a lot. My most recent was to write the sex completely softcore. I think softcore may be less popular on Lit than completely nonerotic stories. I don't think I've ever written sex in as much detail as some people, but what I have written varies from sloppy/gooey to completely skipping the scene. Different approaches for different stories.

I've put too many stories into different categories to really feel like I have a core audience.

The reason I ask, is that the people I know (vs the anon audience) often comment on the graphic nature of the sex in my work. 'Less is more' is frequently brought up.

I personally like sordid details, but it occurs to me that there may be a large portion of readers who don't. Possibly more than those who do.

Musing.

Maybe it depends on how you allocate your reader's time. If you give them a story with good character and plot then your readers may not want to divert a whole lot of time into the cum-splattering details. There is a line of thought that if the character and plot itself serve to arouse the reader, then you don't need so many graphic details. If your story is just a vehicle for the cum-splattering details then maybe they won't want to be diverted by character and plot. The details are needed.

 

[JasonClearwater]

To me, it's the reader's opinion that matters, but then the readers who agree with you may gravitate to your stories. In the long run, maybe your readers share your opinion.

I supposed that's the difference between starting out, writing what you want to write, vs having a following, or asking specific people for an opinion. I am guided at times by reader feedback, but it's so sporadic, it's hard to know how representative it is of the many thousands of readers who view your work.

That's never been true for me. The way I write the erotic material is shaped by other goals I have for the story. I don't know what would happen if I followed my instinct. I might just write the same sex over and over. Wait, maybe I write the same sex over and over anyway.

I try and experiment a touch, but the characters are more interesting to me than the sex a lot of the time - and then the sex serves a particular kink purpose usually, and most often has some formula to it, as that kink plays out (d/s).

I experiment a lot. My most recent was to write the sex completely softcore. I think softcore may be less popular on Lit than completely nonerotic stories. I don't think I've ever written sex in as much detail as some people, but what I have written varies from sloppy/gooey to completely skipping the scene. Different approaches for different stories.

What was the feedback like? Did you get much either way as to whether or not that approach worked for those who did read it?

 

[SimonDoom]

My experience is that on Literotica less is not more. Readers like long, drawn-out, detailed sex scenes. For a few of my stories, I have received mild criticisms that the climactic sex scenes went too quickly. No one has ever said that the sex went on too long or that there was "too much," and my stories tend to have lots of sex.

I write sex scenes the way I like them. I like detail. I'm visual and I enjoy the anatomical aspect of it. But there's a lot that's tricky about detailed sex scenes: 1) avoiding too much of "and then A went into B" type narrative, 2) avoiding using the same words, over and over, 3) avoiding corny cliches and metaphors ("throbbing man meat"). I think the way you minimize these problems is by a) incorporating all the different senses, not just the visual, and b) shifting a lot between physical description and narrative about what the characters are thinking and feeling.

That's an interesting idea about writing the scene in a deliberately different way. I don't think I've really done that, yet, but I might try it.

 

[JasonClearwater]

My experience is that on Literotica less is not more. Readers like long, drawn-out, detailed sex scenes. For a few of my stories, I have received mild criticisms that the climactic sex scenes went too quickly. No one has ever said that the sex went on too long or that there was "too much," and my stories tend to have lots of sex.

I write sex scenes the way I like them. I like detail. I'm visual and I enjoy the anatomical aspect of it. But there's a lot that's tricky about detailed sex scenes: 1) avoiding too much of "and then A went into B" type narrative, 2) avoiding using the same words, over and over, 3) avoiding corny cliches and metaphors ("throbbing man meat"). I think the way you minimize these problems is by a) incorporating all the different senses, not just the visual, and b) shifting a lot between physical description and narrative about what the characters are thinking and feeling.

That's an interesting idea about writing the scene in a deliberately different way. I don't think I've really done that, yet, but I might try it.

I'm like you. I like detail. I like to be able to visualise it. I actually don't mind if a writer repeats themselves either. I don't like corny cliches either, but in a certain style of story, I'll give them a pass, too.

Agree with your last point - shifting between physical description and narrative. Although, again, in a certain style of story, a lack of narrative, and a passive acceptance of what's happening, is actually the kink. Not bimbofication, but 'checking out' and allowing yourself to be used.

I've experimented on a couple of stories, but by and large, I feel as if I'm writing romance if I get too non-specific with the sex, and I'm not a big romance fan.

 

[RetroFan]

If you're writing comedy, which I often do, the stories will tend to be longer as you need to describe the situations in some detail like you're describing a movie to make your readers laugh.

For example, my most recent story, 'The PTA Queen Bee & The Teen Rebel 2', is a very black satirical comedy. One of the characters, Todd, is a stupid fat bully who hides in the girls' bathroom at his high school to try and evade a college student he pissed off and who is intent on kicking his ass. While in the girls' toilets, the slow-witted Todd is bewildered at some of the differences with the boys' bathroom, such as the absence of urinals and these weird blue bins in each of the stalls. I describe Todd's thought processes in some detail in this passage to emphasize his stupidity and make readers of the story laugh. If I simply wrote, 'Todd was puzzled that the girls' bathroom had no urinals and that the stalls had sanitary disposal bins when there were none in the boys' room', it isn't as effective or funny.

 

[NotWise]

What was the feedback like? Did you get much either way as to whether or not that approach worked for those who did read it?

Scores are the only feedback I have. I've done it twice now.

My first attempt was my 4th story on Lit and it is my lowest-scoring story. It has a checkered past because I published it to the wrong category then asked Laurel to move it. I've read it over and over and tried to understand why people don't much like it. I think it's written well-enough and the imagery is good, but when it gets to the payoff it goes softcore and there's little to reward the readers.

The story has 0 comments, and that's probably because of the category change.

My most recent try ("Tamsin of Sky Village") was a short action story more than an erotic story and I think the comments reflect that. It hasn't even reached 1600 views in a month. That might be in part because the short description isn't sexy, but other authors who posted stories at the same time commented on the low number of views. It's in SciFi, so its score of a little over 4.5 has to be interpreted. In that category 4.5 is like a 4 in other categories.

I also (after writing the story) searched for the tag "softcore." It isn't used much, and the stories that use it didn't seem to score very well. I think the problem with softcore sex is that the story leads the reader up to the sex, and then the sex isn't there in a way that most readers find satisfying.

I scored better with a story where I just skipped the sex.

 

[JasonClearwater]

Scores are the only feedback I have. I've done it twice now.

My first attempt was my 4th story on Lit and it is my lowest-scoring story. It has a checkered past because I published it to the wrong category then asked Laurel to move it. I've read it over and over and tried to understand why people don't much like it. I think it's written well-enough and the imagery is good, but when it gets to the payoff it goes softcore and there's little to reward the readers.

The story has 0 comments, and that's probably because of the category change.

My most recent try ("Tamsin of Sky Village") was a short action story more than an erotic story and I think the comments reflect that. It hasn't even reached 1600 views in a month. That might be in part because the short description isn't sexy, but other authors who posted stories at the same time commented on the low number of views. It's in SciFi, so its score of a little over 4.5 has to be interpreted. In that category 4.5 is like a 4 in other categories.

I also (after writing the story) searched for the tag "softcore." It isn't used much, and the stories that use it didn't seem to score very well. I think the problem with softcore sex is that the story leads the reader up to the sex, and then the sex isn't there in a way that most readers find satisfying.

I scored better with a story where I just skipped the sex.

Interesting. Was the no-sex story in non-erotic, or did you post a notice at the start of the story to say there was no sex? I think readers feel cheaped out if they're not warned, and they've invested in reading a story.

 

[NotWise]

Interesting. Was the no-sex story in non-erotic, or did you post a notice at the start of the story to say there was no sex? I think readers feel cheaped out if they're not warned, and they've invested in reading a story.

No warning. The story ("The Third Ring") was in SciFi, where they seem to accept more variations than other categories. It's a short epic story, and most readers who make it to the end seem to be thinking, "Damn!" not "Hey, where was the sex!"

 

[BiscuitHammer]

I try to capture an entire mood when writing a sex scene, so they tend to be detailed, even if it's just supposed to be a quickie. I like to think I'm reasonably good at blending sex with emotional expression, not just the mechanics of coitus. My readers in general seem to be the 'more is good' type, although they also enjoy a tease where I just cut to an aftermath and leave things unspoken.

(Sorry about my unusual brevity, had a few too many Helen Kellers last night and thinking is difficult, like a cat scratching to find the last clean spot in a litterbox...)

 

[JasonClearwater]

I think it mainly comes down to this.

If you are doing well, you get followers who like your style and their opinion might matter the most.

There are many different types of writers, and once I find one I like, I will read all of him/her. Once the style moves in a direction I don't like anymore, I will let go and might never read his/her work again; with so many options, I'd better spend my time on writers I do like.

Me, I often skip long, descriptive sex-scenes when I read. I do try to be a bit more descriptive in my writing, but never got comments whether it is too much or too little.

So, two questions there - do you read here quite a lot then? And the other question is then, you're not reading for titillation? So... what do you get from the writing, is it relationships and plot that you're looking for?

 

[JasonClearwater]

I try to capture an entire mood when writing a sex scene, so they tend to be detailed, even if it's just supposed to be a quickie. I like to think I'm reasonably good at blending sex with emotional expression, not just the mechanics of coitus. My readers in general seem to be the 'more is good' type, although they also enjoy a tease where I just cut to an aftermath and leave things unspoken.

(Sorry about my unusual brevity, had a few too many Helen Kellers last night and thinking is difficult, like a cat scratching to find the last clean spot in a litterbox...)

Don't mind your brev, bruv, but I am concerned you're going to die from liver failure.

 

[BiscuitHammer]

Don't mind your brev, bruv, but I am concerned you're going to die from liver failure.

I refuse to die of anything so pedestrian as liver failure. I am either going to get orgasmed to death by the Swedish Bikini Team, or squashed by a Katamari ball. Either way, going out how I want.

 

[Hypoxia]

Every reader wants something different. We can group classes of readers excited by certain tropes, stereotypes, and fetishes, and some of those classes may even overlap. But they don't pay you. Nobody pays you here. Write whatever excites you. Nobody else matters. Yes, it's LIT authorial solipsism!

An exercise: Write the same story in versions ranging from minimal, to satisfying, to over-the-top. Go from austere brevity to opulent wall-chewing. Then see what grabs eyeballs and approval.

 

[JasonClearwater]

I guess, on average, I read 2 Lit-pages a day. Some days I read nothing, some days I read several stories.

I know it may seem to be a lame statement for someone on Lit, but sex is often only a small detail for what I am looking for. Often, I find little variation in descriptions of sex. There are only so many ways to do it, and the descriptions are rarely refreshing.

I like feel good stories, romantic stories (I'm impatiently waiting for CoffeeWithMonkeys to submit a new chapter of 'No Such Thing as Time'), I like stories describing different lifestyles than mine, I like stories where one of the characters is challenged to do things out of his/her comfort zone (but nothing too humiliating). I guess I prefer PC and I don't like stories that go far beyond my own limits. No cheating, not too much taboo, no hate/racist/non-con/extreme stories.

I am trying stories belonging to different categories, using different styles.

A small and incomplete list: I'm currently going through EB's list of submissions, every now and then I read some of Ogg's stories (I do like his writing style, but not too much at one time); I like xelliebabex stories; I like Kantarii's 'A Slut's Triangle' (although it did regularly make me feel uncomfortable) and 'Best Friends Forever'; I like yukonnights.

I read the first chapter of 'Nate's Evil Exploits', but stopped reading halfway the second chapter; that wasn't my cup of tea. I might check some other of your stories (at this moment, I'm reading EB's 'English Summer Tales', which does make me curious about your work again)

I could make a long list of writers I don't like, but no personal attacks...

And then, my interest changes depending on my mood.

Oh, GOD no, don't read Nate's Evil Exploits, out of everything I've written.

I'm not sure I have anything that would appeal to you, to be honest. There's relationship content in most of the Jesse and Will stories (there's an index of them here jesseclifton.wordpress.com/jesse-clifton-fiction/), but I write a lot of non-con and d/s stuff.

EB and I wrote one together - Floating World Pt 4 on his page is a collab between us. That's fairly harmless. Maybe 'Unleashed' on my page, which EB has just accused of being 'romance', the bastard. But yeees.

I don't think I'm up your alley. And you're probably quite glad of that.

 

[BiscuitHammer]

I don't think I'm up your alley. And you're probably quite glad of that.

So, ignore the double meaning there?

 

[JasonClearwater]

Should I now indicate that I am open for new experiences? I won't go into detail...

Noooo now you're going to need a leg protector! It's okay, Eebs has a few spares.

 

[lovecraft68]

I've pushed the bar in incest many times in the sense that it's a category that really wants either romance between the family members(you would be amazed at what softies that readership is despite the extreme kink) or just out of control wild family fucking, but all in good clean dirty fun.

They don't like depressing, they hate non consent, don't like abuse. They don't like anything that reminds them that in real life that fun fantasy usually has some darker over tones or dysfunction driving it.

So at times I give them that. Those stories score lower and I get some comments that are of the outraged variety, but also still get some good ones.

Some people think I do it on purpose to troll or get a rise, but reality is I write the story I feel.

I think to how long you've been here and your following and 'reputation' makes a difference. The first series I did here was brother sister and just brutal. BDSM sex, drug addiction, abuse, violence, mental illness etc....scored high but very small readership.

I at times wonder had I led off with the more fun traditional taboo and built my fan base first would it go over better now?

MY experiment with that was back in 2014 when I did damned red dress a train wreck father daughter story. It scored well with great comments. Story itself? or a more accepting fan base? Know way to know.

 

[jomar]

Ha, my whole story roster is experimentation. I think my stories find a variety of readers given the different styles (except within series) so different series/stories have different audiences.

As for your question, my White Trash series was an excercise in almost pure stroke...four chapters of explicit and detailed sex barely held together by an almost accidental framework of a story...it did ok! It was a blast to write and still makes me laugh.

Which brings me to a point - have fun and write for yourself, not the Lit crowd. Unless maybe you’re playing around (a la my Marion series) or are using Lit as a laboratory of sorts.

 

[ruddygore]

The amount of detail depends on the story. Some just scream out for lovingly detailed description, whereas others works better with hints and innuendo. My own preference is for enough detail to get an idea of what's being done; my imaginations is quite capable of filling in all the graphic details.

To me, the worst, regardless of detail, is the story is going along just fine, and the comes to a screeching grinding halt because, "OK, we're going to have a sex scene here."

 

[rae121452]

Never Too Much
Luther Vandross

I can't fool myself I don't want nobody else to ever love me
You are my shining star my guiding light my love fantasy
There's not a minute, hour, day or night that I don't love you
You're at the top of my list 'cause I'm always thinking of ya
I still remember in the days when I was scared to touch you
How I spent my day dreamin' plannin' how to say "I love you"
You must have known that I had feelings deep enough to swim in
That's when you opened up your heart and you told me to come in

Oh my love, a thousand kisses from you
Is never too much, I just don't wanna stop
Oh my love, a million days in your arms
Is never too much, I just don't wanna stop
Never too much, never too much
Never too much, never too much

Woke up today, looked at your picture just to get me started
I called you up but you weren't there and I was broken hearted
Hung up the phone, can't be too late, the boss is so demandin'
Opened the door up and to my surprise there you were standin'
Who needs to go to work to hustle for another dollar?
I'd rather be with you 'cause you make my heart scream and holler
Love is a gamble and I'm so glad that I am winnin'
We've come a long way and yet this is only the beginning

Oh my love, a thousand kisses from you
Is never too much, I just don't wanna stop
Oh my love, a million days in your arms
Is never too much, I just don't wanna stop
Oh my love, a thousand kisses from you is never
A thousand kisses from you
A thousand kisses from you is never to much
Songwriters: LUTHER VANDROSS