english woman get arrested for saying "Holocaust is hoax and all jews are liars"

[dominatrixjane]

english woman get arrested for saying "Holocaust is hoax and all jews are liars"

english woman get arrested for saying "Holocaust is hoax and all jews are liars"


http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com...abloz-says-there-is-no-proof-of-gas-chambers/


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-42637888


http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com...called-auschwitz-a-theme-park-to-stand-trial/


https://www.timesofisrael.com/british-blogger-on-trial-for-posting-holocaust-denial-songs-online/


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/9...k-antisemitism-holocaust-mockery-court-uproar

 

[Boxlicker101]

Although I despise this woman and everything she stands for, I still believe she has a right to express her opinion.

 

[Rightguide]

The English have a notorious animus towards free speech. OTOH, American notions of free speech are in fact unique in history.

 

[oggbashan]

The UK has laws against 'hate speech'.

 

[Taint_mAnn]

Saying the holocaust is a hoax is a stupid thing to say.

 

[Captainnumnuts]

The UK has laws against 'hate speech'.

I doubt the UK goes overboard with that like the US does w/it's 1st Amendment these days.

 

[Boxlicker101]

The UK has laws against 'hate speech'.

That is one of the differences between the two nations. In the US, although most people are against "hate speech," this is outweighed by the benefits of or First Amendment. We like being able to express our contempt for politicians, even the president. There are some Americans who believe "hate speech" should be outlawed, but they are only a small minority.

 

[Liar]

That is one of the differences between the two nations. In the US, although most people are against "hate speech," this is outweighed by the benefits of or First Amendment. We like being able to express our contempt for politicians, even the president. There are some Americans who believe "hate speech" should be outlawed, but they are only a small minority.

There is nothing whatsoever barring Brits from expressing contempt for politicians, even their prime minister. And they do so with pretty entertaining gusto at times.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Originally Posted by Boxlicker101 View Post

That is one of the differences between the two nations. In the US, although most people are against "hate speech," this is outweighed by the benefits of or First Amendment. We like being able to express our contempt for politicians, even the president. There are some Americans who believe "hate speech" should be outlawed, but they are only a small minority.

There is nothing whatsoever barring Brits from expressing contempt for politicians, even their prime minister. And they do so with pretty entertaining gusto at times.

Maybe I should have expanded on my comment. Politicians do not like to be criticized contemptuously and, if they could, they would outlaw it as "hate speech." Fortunately, the First A. prevents this from happening. In addition, I can describe Mohammed as a pedophile and I can criticize gays for spreading AIDS by not practicing safe sex when it first appeared. I never would, but I could describe transgendered people as freaks of nature, or I could say Poles are dumb or Japanese are treacherous or Irish are a bunch of drunks or many similar things. In the UK, such comments would be considered hate speech and I could be arrested for making them. I don't like being PC and I do like to say what mean, and I can do so, thanks to the First Amendment.

 

[Rightguide]

There is nothing whatsoever barring Brits from expressing contempt for politicians, even their prime minister. And they do so with pretty entertaining gusto at times.

Brits will never be as free as an American

 

[Hypoxia]

I don't like being PC and I do like to say what mean, and I can do so, thanks to the First Amendment.

You might consider WHY hate-speech bans now exist. The European experience with hate speech saw tens of millions dead, and nations devastated. The US Constitution grants freedom of religion because the Founders noted the Holy Wars that left tens of millions dead, and nations devastated, and wished to avoid a repetition.

Hate speech drove the Rwandan genocide; and I could cite other examples; but generally, when speech is weaponized, we can expect slaughter.

 

[Boxlicker101]

You might consider WHY hate-speech bans now exist. The European experience with hate speech saw tens of millions dead, and nations devastated. The US Constitution grants freedom of religion because the Founders noted the Holy Wars that left tens of millions dead, and nations devastated, and wished to avoid a repetition.

Hate speech drove the Rwandan genocide; and I could cite other examples; but generally, when speech is weaponized, we can expect slaughter.

You know what they say about sticks and stones.

Speaking for myself, I eschew it, at least what I consider hate speech. The same cannot be said about many here, but that is their right. I have yet to see any harm done by it here.

 

[DeYaKen]

You know what they say about sticks and stones.

Indeed I do and a more and what fallacious statement it is. I know of people that have been damaged for years because of things that have been said to them as children.

But to return to the free speech argument have to ask when freedom of speech overlaps into inciting racial hatred. This particular woman should be grateful that Jews are not considered a race. Incitement to racial hatred is a more serious offence and, before any of the anti-muslim brigade jumps in, Yes we do have Muslims serving gaol sentences for doing just that.

BTW the OP is wrong to use the headline he chose. She is not being prosecuted for denying the holocaust, there is a law against that in Switzerland but not in Britain. She is on trial on two counts of sending by a public communications network an offensive, indecent or menacing message or material.
She is allowed to say what she likes about jews but not to broadcast it. Had she chosen to upload songs promoting the raping and killing of children she would have been prosecuted under the same legislation.

 

[oggbashan]

Brits will never be as free as an American

It depends what you mean by freedom. We Brits can be far more eccentric than almost any American.

The US has federal and state laws which are more restrictive than the equivalent UK ones. The US has local and neighbourhood regulations which are more restrictive than the UK ones IF they exist.

The opposite is also true. In some areas the UK is more restrictive (and don't get me started on EU regulations!).

A comparison between freedom in the US and UK is a question of degree. Both are far more free than many countries that consider themselves 'free'.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Indeed I do and a more and what fallacious statement it is. I know of people that have been damaged for years because of things that have been said to them as children.

But to return to the free speech argument have to ask when freedom of speech overlaps into inciting racial hatred. This particular woman should be grateful that Jews are not considered a race. Incitement to racial hatred is a more serious offence and, before any of the anti-muslim brigade jumps in, Yes we do have Muslims serving gaol sentences for doing just that.

BTW the OP is wrong to use the headline he chose. She is not being prosecuted for denying the holocaust, there is a law against that in Switzerland but not in Britain. She is on trial on two counts of sending by a public communications network an offensive, indecent or menacing message or material.
She is allowed to say what she likes about jews but not to broadcast it. Had she chosen to upload songs promoting the raping and killing of children she would have been prosecuted under the same legislation.

If you are familiar with that chant, you must know the second line is "But words will never hurt me." I hope you notice the first person pronoun. And, it is true. I have been called many vulgar and untrue names, and the vituperation rolls off me, because I consider the source. If you doubt that, look up any post I have made on this site in response to what somebody else has said. Many of them are extremely nasty names, but they have never hurt me.

I hope you realize Muslims are also not a race. There are many ethnicities, such as Turk, Arab, Kurd, Persian, Pakistani, Negroid etc., some members of which are Muslims.

I seriously doubt there are any Muslims in prison for hate crimes committed against other faiths. I will concede there are probably some locked up for hate crimes against Gays and others, but not against those of other faiths. If you can actually show me some examples, I would appreciate it.

I also want to say I am not defending the woman who is the subject of this thread. I consider her to be a foul, rotten bitch, but I also believe she should have the freedom to speak her mind. At the same time, if she is inciting violence, that is a different matter, but I saw nothing of that in the text that was cited.

 

[ishtat]

If Americans think their nation is the home of free speech go to You tube and listen to the comedian Jimmy Carr, firstly in UK and secondly in the USA. He would not get through a single performance of his UK material in the USA

The USA, particularly the media, self censors because of the religious and 'moral ' policing nuts. That does not occur in the UK. UK media is way freer, which is why the Brits roll their eyes when Americans prate on about 1st amendments et al.

 

[DeYaKen]

If you are familiar with that chant, you must know the second line is "But words will never hurt me."

You are an adult and have no problem ignoring negative comments. However, if a child grows up constantly being told they are useless, they end up thinking they are useless. Having spent many years fostering children I know this to be true.

I hope you realize Muslims are also not a race. There are many ethnicities, such as Turk, Arab, Kurd, Persian, Pakistani, Negroid etc., some members of which are Muslims.

Of course, I do. I also realise there are a number of people using these threads who have an irrational hatred of Muslims I was simply pre-empting the inevitable comments.

I seriously doubt there are any Muslims in prison for hate crimes committed against other faiths. I will concede there are probably some locked up for hate crimes against Gays and others, but not against those of other faiths. If you can actually show me some examples, I would appreciate it.

You could start with Abu Hamza, Abu Qatada and Anjem Choudray for starters. Sorry I only remember the high profile cases.

I was a teenager back in the sixties. Gangs of London lads used to go out "Queer Bashing" That means beating up gay men just for being gay men. in those days the gangs were often mixed the immigrant community being wider spread than it is now. Those convicted of such assaults were tried together so it would be highly unlikely that the Muslim members of the gang didn't go down with the rest.

I also want to say I am not defending the woman who is the subject of this thread. I consider her to be a foul, rotten bitch, but I also believe she should have the freedom to speak her mind. At the same time, if she is inciting violence, that is a different matter, but I saw nothing of that in the text that was cited.

I'm pleased to hear it. As I said she wasn't prosecuted for holding the views she has. She was not even charged for speaking her mind. She was charged with making offensive broadcasts. Broadcasts that could be viewed by anyone regardless of age.

Incitement to violence is a tricky one. It often depends on the way the message is interpreted. When Henry II asked "who will rid me of this turbulent priest?" was he inciting violence. The three knights who slew Thomas Beckett thought he was. He said he was not. On this side of the pond, we have seen how the drip drip drip of degrading rhetoric can destroy mutual respect. Once the respect is gone it is easy to demonise sectors of the community so that they become the reason for all the problems of the community as a whole. Once you have decided that they are to blame for everything it's a small step to irradicating the problem. The question is at what point did it move from speaking your mind to embarking on the solution?

 

[Captainnumnuts]

It depends what you mean by freedom. We Brits can be far more eccentric than almost any American.

Indeed you are eccentric, but great conversationalists. Not so bad in a bar fight I might add.