Literotica®: Anything Does Not Go

[Caramel Infidel]

Deleted. Removing My Account.

Deleted. Removing My Account.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I'll handle this.

 

[oggbashan]

Literotica is a privately owned site.

The owners set and enforce the rules. They can be arbitrary and can miss some dubious content. There is no right of appeal.

If you find a story that seems to break the rules? Report it.

Most of us can live with Literotica as it is.

 

[JasonClearwater]

As of Tuesday, February 27, 2018, I'm reposting my rejected "Reviews/Essay" submission here, per Laurel's & Manu's suggestion that it did not belong in the aforementioned story category. I just want some confirmation that I'm not the only one who sees the following problems on this site.

*** Content Warning: Frank Discussion About Rape in Erotic Material ***​

This may get me banned on Literotica®. This may be used as a reason to call me names and accuse me of censorship. I’ve heard and been called all the anti-feminist insults you can imagine (“mangina,” “cuck,” social justice warrior, tone troll, etc., ad nauseum). By the way, if any of you decide to use “cuck,” “mangina,” or “troll” to insult me on a site that appeals to cuckolding, forced feminization, and troll fantasies, I’m gonna laugh my ass off at the irony. Fuck it. I’m a grown-ass adult who can take it.

Literotica, your non-consent stories are a problem. Not because rape fantasies are are problem. It’s because a lot of your authors produce material that’s indistinguishable from actual sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape. I will explain before any of you start howling censorship or hurling “feminazi” at me unironically (I’m looking at you, Nazi-themed erotica on Literotica).

Some people here have written essays defending non-consent. Why do they do this? One reason is they don’t like the misogyny inherent in monitoring fantasies that appeal mostly to women. That is an actual legitimate point: that women, historically and currently, have been and are slut-shamed to such an extent that claiming their sexuality outright in a world that will punish them for doing that is fraught with devastating real-world consequences. Trust me, I get that point.

But do we want to be contributing to a world where women face negative consequences for owning their sexuality outright? I know I sure don’t. And, yes, even in the perfect feminist utopia, plenty of people are still going to get off on rape fantasies. Believe it or not, I’m cool with this.

I’m asking you non-consent erotica producers, in all sincerity, can you please write that internal consent into your stories? I’m not going to be classist and expect all writers at Literotica or anywhere else to have university-level understandings of feminist theory and rape culture before they produce their work. I’m asking, hey, could you write in a paragraph, maybe just a sentence, showing the characters having the time of their lives?

Or even if you consider that too much self-monitoring, maybe preface your stories with something like, “All characters herein represent fully consenting adults” or “this is a work of fiction that in no way endorses actual rape.” That last caveat is not that great, but at least it’s better than nothing.

Let’s get real: Literotica is for producing fapping material. I say this as a proud fellow masturbator. In no way do I judge you or consider that designation pejorative. Writers, have some respect for the conscience of your readers; show your audience how ethically hot your “non-consent” consent scenarios are for the characters. If you fail to do this even marginally, you’re attracting and enabling a not unsubstantial percentage of readers and writers that get off on actual rape. Yeah, I went there.

I’m not saying this platform is responsible for any abusers, child molesters, incest power differential exploiters, power exchange aficionados, and rapists who take this stuff literally and choose commit actual assaults. I’m saying YUCK. If you identify with rapists (and various other abusers) in stories where the submissive and vulnerable parties haven’t been shown to give, establish, or demonstrate consent, then stay as far away from me as possible. If you haven’t also given all parties in a power exchange scenario the ability to revoke consent at any time and have it honored, then you, too, should stay as far away from me as possible.

Consider the reader and writer getting off to the following scenario:

“He fucked that bitch Wendy up the ass for killing his brother. She strained and struggled and swore revenge, but he didn't care.” {Tag: non-consent}​

Now compare it to this:

“He fucked that bitch Wendy up the ass for killing his brother. She strained and struggled and swore revenge, but he didn't care.

Later, cuddling in their aftercare session, “Bitch” Wendy profusely thanked and kissed her dominant for tapping into the submissive fantasy that made her knees shake and pussy repeatedly quiver and orgasm like no other fantasy could.” {Tag: non-consent}​

I know which scene makes me hot and leaves me feeling good about myself. It’s the one that switches the POV, even briefly, to demonstrate the participants’ thorough enjoyment of consensual kinky sex. Without that brief explanation, the reader has no way to determine if the protagonist (or writer / artist) actually enjoys raping people, enjoys stories about actually raping people, or believes certain people deserve rape. You know who also enjoys the aforementioned? Rapists that use the Literotica platform.

And before you scream “But it’s all fantasy!”, consider the following. James Deen is a popular actor in dirty movies. He’s also been accused of rape by at least eight of his fellow pornographic actors. He actually injured one of the women he was filming with because he wasn’t serious about taking her consent into consideration. Think about that the next time you decide to play one of his videos. I know I deleted every video I had featuring him. How about you? Yeah, plenty of his scenes seemed hot, but that’s only because we were operating on the premise that he had the consent of his partners, which is now impossible to determine. Try and argue “fantasy” with Christy Mack (originally known as Christine Mackinday), whose convicted rapist ex-boyfriend Jonathan Koppenhaver (a.k.a. War Machine) tried to argue “her work in pornography pointed to consent” after he nearly beat her to death and sexually assaulted her. By that logic, War Machine could be beaten and sexually assaulted with impunity because he was a part-time porn actor himself.

Real rapists don’t care about consent. Writers of non-consent erotica should. And, no, Literotica doesn’t endorse non-consent, it endorses free speech. You have the right to say what you want without government interference. It doesn’t make the shit some of you choose to say ethical. After all, you can’t write child pornography and bestiality on the Literotica platform. And why is that, class? Because consent, motherfuckers, that’s why. It might just be an ass-covering measure for Literotica, but my point still stands. It covers Literotica’s ass to demonstrate consent to the community and the outside world.

The one story I was actually able to find on Literotica that built obvious, unquestionable consent into its title, its tags, and its character motivations was criticized by one Literotica user for “crappy” and “lazy” writing. Pot, meet kettle. Think about how difficult that story was for to me find and how easy it is for me to find every kind of non-consent story imaginable, including the ones that are indistinguishable from actual rape, including the ones that lack the very thing I’m arguing for in this essay. No, popularity doesn’t negate the problematic parts of highly consumed work. E. L. James’ plagiarized fan fiction is full of actual stalking, boundary-violation, sexual assault and rape. Many people have called her out for lousy, problematic, poorly-written erotica. Furthermore, she’s on record for describing the BDSM community as “fucked up.” Think about that, all you BDSM story tellers. Are you sure you want her as your standard bearer?

Alright, free speech proponents, rape culture deniers, and rape defenders. Come at me. I’m ready for you.

Interestingly, I've had this conversation with my best [female, feminist] friend, who's the strongest influence on what I write, and her opinion, as someone who was raped at a teenager, is that the whole 'I was raped but I enjoyed it', is the antithesis of feminist, plays into the stereotype of women enjoying being dominated, and that this element ruins if for her.

Your opinion is obviously strongly held, and I'm sure for the right reasons; but while there are true misogynists writing non-con, there are also a number of male and female feminists writing it, who understand the kink from their own POV, who do champion consent in real life.

In non-con here, Literotica insists that the victim enjoys the assault. Not all readers agree that this is a) a turn on, b) a healthy representation of rape fantasies.

And frankly, I think writing 'He forced her roughly and she loved it' plays more into rape culture than 'He forced her roughly, and while she wanted to jam a chainsaw down his throat, there was nothing she could do about it, but her body enjoyed it regardless' - which is more accurate.

But everyone's different. That's just my opinion. I have reservations around writing women being forced [since the revelations among my friends during #metoo], but when I write women into 'non consent' I try to at least give them agency over their own thoughts. Take that away, and you really do reduce them to sub-human imo.

 

[ChloeTzang]

.....E. L. James’ plagiarized fan fiction is full of actual stalking, boundary-violation, sexual assault and rape. Many people have called her out for lousy, problematic, poorly-written erotica. Furthermore, she’s on record for describing the BDSM community as “fucked up.” Think about that, all you BDSM story tellers. Are you sure you want her as your standard bearer?

Alright, free speech proponents, rape culture deniers, and rape defenders. Come at me. I’m ready for you.

I like quite a few of those non-con / reluctance stories. I liked Fifty Shades as well and obviously a few gazillion other women did. As far as I'm concerned it's "don't like it, don't read it." You censor your own reading and I'll censor mine. I'm not a big believer in any kind of censorship.

That said, Lit's a privately own site and they make up their own rules and they're not hard about it, there's some flexibility. I'm fine with how it works.

 

[lovecraft68]

I've spent years calling out lits BS 'oh, we don't allow rape' here.

Enjoy the spins, toadies, the if you don't like it leave, and yes there is a rule, but the site does what they please anyway comments you'll get for this.

 

[lovecraft68]

I like quite a few of those non-con / reluctance stories. I liked Fifty Shades as well and obviously a few gazillion other women did. As far as I'm concerned it's "don't like it, don't read it." You censor your own reading and I'll censor mine. I'm not a big believer in any kind of censorship.

That said, Lit's a privately own site and they make up their own rules and they're not hard about it, there's some flexibility. I'm fine with how it works.

Something I want to say real quick on this that I find interesting.

With the #metoo movement a lot has come to light about abuse/abusers and people are finally up in arms about it and want change.

I wonder how many women(its mostly women that have read shades so I don't feel I'm being unfair saying it) that are all for #metoo realize that Christian grey is the exact replica of the wealthy powerful assholes who have used their position to rape and abuse these girls?

Its fiction and in that sense it shouldn't matter, but wondering if the correlation has dawned on anyone.

As for shades itself it was a rip off of Twilight and a combination of every possible cliche you can imagine put in a blender. But hey, pablum sells, always has always will.

My only issue is that if anyone thinks its BDSM and that's how a DM/Sub relationship works I pity them.

 

[SusanJillParker]

I've written dozens of stories of forced sex without writing the word rape. Maybe that's the issue, calling attention to the fact that it's rape story instead of a non-consensual sex story.

Yet, what I do in the end is to turn and twist the story to make it seem that the character is not only agreeable to having sex but also wants to do have sex again.

I wrote a story where a woman showed up for a blind date. The man drugged her, stripped her naked, and tied her down his cellar. Horrifying as Hell but...to make a very long story short, they ended up falling in love.

I wrote another story about celebrities being kidnapped, collected, and forced to have sex. Yet, during their confinement they bonded with the man who kidnapped them.

I suspect that as long as your character is okay with what happened in the end, all that happened up to that point is permissible.

I just wouldn't go waving a rape and rapist flag in Laurel's face.

 

[Caramel Infidel]

Deleted. Removing My Account.

 

[AwkwardMD]

What did I say? Now you've got fifty people shadowboxing each other and everyine thinks they're winning.

 

[Caramel Infidel]

Deleted. Removing My Account.

Deleted. Removing My Account.

 

[Caramel Infidel]

Deleted. Removing My Account.

Deleted. Removing My Account.

 

[lovecraft68]

What did I say? Now you've got fifty people shadowboxing each other and everyine thinks they're winning.

This differs from any other thread how?

 

[EquinoxRising]

FYI, you cannot post "full submissions" to the bulletin board.

 

[ChloeTzang]

@ Chloe Tzang:

Please check out Jenny Trout’s takedown of the whole 50 Shades phenomenon at http://jennytrout.com/?p=3007.

She and others have documented the hugely problematic elements with E. L. James’ work without shaming women (and men) who enjoyed it on an erotic level.

Oh I know, I know. I've read a lot of the critiques and take downs. Still, I like it

 

[Caramel Infidel]

Deleted. Removing My Account.

Deleted. Removing My Account.

 

[Caramel Infidel]

Deleted. Removing My Account.

Deleted. Removing My Account.

 

[ChloeTzang]

@ Chloe Tzang:

Enjoy away. I’m not calling your taste or your preferences into question. I’m just acknowledging the inherent problems in the work itself.

Problems are in the eye of the beholder - myself, I treat it as fiction to be enjoyed, not as an instruction manual, altho well, it is a little inspirational ....

Anyhow, back to the topic, I do enjoy a good forced sex story, but there's all sorts and it really depends what the reader is looking for. I like LIT's approach, it's somewhere between asstr where it's anything goes, and the plain boring stuff.... it's so hard to define the limits on personal taste. There's a lot of readers for these stories, just as there are for incest and I've written one of those.

Does that mean I want to jump into bed with my Dad? Nope. It's a fantasy, that's all. And one person's fantasy is another person's complete yuck! No counting for taste and I don't think it's worth the attempt. So if people want to write and read rape fantasies, I'm "have at it, guys!"

Now me, I have my own little fantasies as you will be able to read in a week or two

 

[lovecraft68]

Problems are in the eye of the beholder - myself, I treat it as fiction to be enjoyed, not as an instruction manual, altho well, it is a little inspirational ....

Anyhow, back to the topic, I do enjoy a good forced sex story, but there's all sorts and it really depends what the reader is looking for. I like LIT's approach, it's somewhere between asstr where it's anything goes, and the plain boring stuff.... it's so hard to define the limits on personal taste. There's a lot of readers for these stories, just as there are for incest and I've written one of those.

Does that mean I want to jump into bed with my Dad? Nope. It's a fantasy, that's all. And one person's fantasy is another person's complete yuck! No counting for taste and I don't think it's worth the attempt. So if people want to write and read rape fantasies, I'm "have at it, guys!"

Now me, I have my own little fantasies as you will be able to read in a week or two

I don't think his point is people should consider it as real or to kink shame, his point is the one I've made. Lit saying they don't want rapist fantasy here is a crock of shit pure and simple.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I don't think his point is people should consider it as real or to kink shame, his point is the one I've made. Lit saying they don't want rapist fantasy here is a crock of shit pure and simple.

That is not his point.

 

[Caramel Infidel]

Deleted. Removing My Account.

Deleted. Removing My Account.

 

[Caramel Infidel]

Deleted. Removing My Account.

Deleted. Removing My Account.

 

[jaF0]

Interestingly, ...

... you don't have to quote the whole post when replying. See? I just proved that.

 

[Hypoxia]

My essay was rejected for the “Reviews/Essays” section by Literotica® moderators. They themselves suggested I take the discussion to this very section, which is what I’m doing.

LIT stories are not scanned by teams of moderators. All submissions are read and (dis)approved by LIT's owner, Laurel. She reads scores-to-hundreds of submissions daily. She misses some and she punts some. You've been punted. BTW some posters here are on my iggy list so if this is redundant info, sorry.

ObTopic: We mostly write fiction here. We (authors) are not required to write of things of which we do or don't approve. We ARE required to write stuff that doesn't perturb Laurel. If we perturb readers, so what? They don't pay us. They can usually locate a backspace key. Or they can send or post nasty comments. Accept that, or don't.

But first, it must pass Laurel's muster. I preface my stories with disclaimers that they're fiction, everyone's adult, some bits may be false, and only a few owls were harmed during writing. That's my choice: an Author's Note.

 

[JasonClearwater]

... you don't have to quote the whole post when replying. See? I just proved that.

Yeah, my bad.