High School Shooting In Florida

[BobaFetaCheese]

Allen Ivanov.

Where are you getting that he used an automatic weapon?

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Where are you getting that he used an automatic weapon?

Seattle Times.

 

[briie]

Different people have different things in mind when they use the same words: "the mentally ill" or "we're doing a poor job at handling mental health issues."

Some people are referring to the fact that politicians have been cutting costs for the Health Sector or for Social supports for kids in duress, and also to the crappy Health Insurance system.

But others have decided that 'the mentally ill' or 'poor parenting' are convenient scapegoats for avoiding to look into problematic Systemic issues (like the misuse of the State Budget or the ready availability of guns.)

 

[BobaFetaCheese]

Seattle Times.

Well they're wrong. He used a semi-auto.
I googled his name and Seattle times. Nothing I read said he used an automatic rifle.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Because, as I understand it:

A schoolkid with an automatic riffle is likely to do more damage before being apprehended.
And they are designed as assault weapons.
Not for defense in the case of a potential home invasion, or for target practice or hunting.

Never heard of a school kid with an automatic rifle.

And that's why they are so very tightly controlled.


In the US, anti gun folks created the term "assault" weapon to mean scary looking gun accessories that people who don't know shit about guns can blame for their outrage.

It doesn't really mean anything, certainly not in any effective sense, to the gun world other than pissing in gun owners shoes just to make them fill out more paperwork and pay more taxes.

That's why this Mini14 isn't an assault weapon.
http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/img/products/original/ruger_mini14_ranch_rifle_1219613_1.jpg

Just a semi auto rifle!! Just like Pee Paw!! Totally not scary.

But this terrifying Mini14 that fires the exact same bullets through the exact same mechanism just as fast...is a *gasp* DUN DUN DAAAAAAAAA!!!!

An "assault" weapon!!!!! Even though functionally it's the exact same thing as pee paws "huntin" rifle.
http://www.policemag.com/_Images/articles/L-Mini-14-right.jpg


It's got scary looking accessories instead of wooden ones.

That makes it more deadly right??


Did you know this is a 50 state legal semi auto rifle?

This is not an assault weapon.
http://www.mynameisfoxtrot.com/storage/FRS15%20riflestock01.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1355373649453


There is no such thing as "assault" weapons or "Defense" weapons or "target" weapons.

There is just muzzle loaders, single action, semi-auto and full auto.

All the other buzzwords are just meaningless smoke and mirror bullshit.

 

[BobBalouski]

Goldwater and Reagan were aberrations the Rockefeller wing of the Republican party is back firmly in charge

Goldwater would be right there with Lindsey Graham today and McConnell would be the only one Reagan would ever let shine his shoes.

Goldwater's most famous patriotic line was based squarely in his avid warmongering, and he can truly only be considered "conservative" to the very degrees socialist/progressive/racist LBJ wasn't. Talk about military-industrial complex supporter - that was Goldwater supreme.

Reagan's delivery was exactly what America needed at that time in its history, but, despite all the clamor of fiscal greatness, he was the first President to double the national debt under his watch - and he more than doubled it at that! (Something neither W or Obama could manage, even trying as hard as they repugnantly did).

Every president in my lifetime has been a statist at heart - a few (like Reagan and Trump) love to talk about how "the People" are in charge over government, but their very Office walk proves how full of crap they truly are.

The very best thing that can happen for America's future right now is that the Tool proves to be so effective a monkey wrench that he keeps clogging up the deep state's gears so well that the entire rotten enchilada finally begins to naturally fall down upon itself. Screw draining the swap...

...just pave over it and make DC a parking lot!

 

[BotanyBoy]

Seattle Times.

Also looks more like a multiple murder than a rampage/mass shooting.

I also question the news medias ability to understand the difference between a fully automatic gun and a fuckin' box of doughnuts.

Goldwater and Reagan were aberrations the Rockefeller wing of the Republican party is back firmly in charge

I'm not sure I'd call them Rockefeller Republicans....they have a total distain for capitalism.

More like a bunch of generic oligarchs using their government power to extort the people for their own gain.

Just like Democraps.

 

[Que]

It's hard not to see government as the solution to every problem when you're the guy in charge of the government.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

It's hard not to see government as the solution to every problem when you're the guy in charge of the government.

I'd love to hear your solution.

 

[BobBalouski]

It's hard not to see government as the solution to every problem when you're the guy in charge of the government.

That's every statists' tyrannical issue: the Constitution is in total charge of the government, not any guy(s).

 

[BobBalouski]

Individually:

The only politic worth living and dying for is individual liberty for all / self-responsibility.

Collectively:

Subsidiarity / self-government.

 

[briie]

Individually:

The only politic worth living and dying for is individual liberty for all / self-responsibility.

Collectively:

Subsidiarity / self-government.

Well, the Government is partially responsible for it, since they made it easier for those kids and the Las Vegas shooter to get hold of guns and rifles.

And does anyone see the irony in the fact that only a few months ago, Trump made it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns? He might have been right or wrong to do it, I wouldn't know.
But in his speech he focused only on and tried to scapegoat the mentally ill.

 

[Que]

A Ruger AR-566 is not an automatic rifle, Sgt Spidey. Black composite does not turn a self-loading rifle into a sub-machine gun.

 

[Que]

That's every statists' tyrannical issue: the Constitution is in total charge of the government, not any guy(s).

Which they seem to understand until they are handed a pen and a phone and the unlimited resources of the Federal gov't to defend their tyrannical ambitions.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I'd love to hear your solution.

I'd love to hear yours.

What do you suggest??

 

[RobDownSouth]

I'd love to hear your solution.

I suspect it will be along the lines of "Moar Guns! MOAR GUNS!" and/or "Arm teh TEACHERS!"

 

[Que]

I suspect it will be along the lines of "Moar Guns! MOAR GUNS!" and/or "Arm teh TEACHERS!"

My solution to Presidential tendancy towards executive over-reach is "moar guns?"

Did you even bother to read the exchange, or were you simply looking for an opportunity to insert one of your 27 canned, repetitive responses?

 

[bellisarius]

Well, the Government is partially responsible for it, since they made it easier for those kids and the Las Vegas shooter to get hold of guns and rifles.

And does anyone see the irony in the fact that only a few months ago, Trump made it easier for the mentally ill to buy guns? He might have been right or wrong to do it, I wouldn't know.
But in his speech he focused only on and tried to scapegoat the mentally ill.

Where in the world are you getting your information from?

Let's start with the fact that it's NOT easier for anyone to legally obtain firearms. In most of the cases (there are exceptions) so many laws were violated BEFORE the shooting ever started that its not amusing in the least. And in many cases the very government you are counting on to prevent these sorry episodes dropped the ball.

Trump didn't make anything easier for anyone. If any person or organization has made it easier for the mentally ill to obtain firearms you need look no further than the ACLU.

 

[briie]

Where in the world are you getting your information from?

Let's start with the fact that it's NOT easier for anyone to legally obtain firearms. In most of the cases (there are exceptions) so many laws were violated BEFORE the shooting ever started that its not amusing in the least. And in many cases the very government you are counting on to prevent these sorry episodes dropped the ball.

Trump didn't make anything easier for anyone. If any person or organization has made it easier for the mentally ill to obtain firearms you need look no further than the ACLU.

You might be right, but that's what I read online.
There are lots of fake news and misinformation planted online by Both political parties, that are meant to confuse laypeople like me.

What I'm pissed off about is this trend of focusing only on the individual, rather than looking at all the issues - systemic issues too.
Some are saying that milenials and the generation Z are more narcissistic and less empathic than prior generations, which isn't true. Others are taking indiscriminate shots at most of the mentally ill.

But the people who take shots at the young or mentally ill do it in a cut-throat USSR gulag type of way: lock them up or increase the surveillance State,
while taking even more funds away from Health, Education and Social services.

 

[bellisarius]

You might be right, but that's what I read online.
There are lots of fake news and misinformation planted online by Both political parties, that are meant to confuse laypeople like me.

What I'm pissed off about is this trend of focusing only on the individual, rather than looking at all the issues - systemic issues too.
Some are saying that milenials and the generation Z are more narcissistic and less empathic than prior generations, which isn't true. Others are taking indiscriminate shots at most of the mentally ill.

But the people who take shots at the young or mentally ill do it in a cut-throat USSR gulag type of way: lock them up or increase the surveillance State,
while taking even more funds away from Health, Education and Social services.

Let's start with the fact that I am right.

The mentally ill are not allowed to possess firearms, that is a matter of law and has been for quite some time. There is nothing in the law that states that only those that are mentally ill AND between the ages of this and that are prohibited. It's a blanket declaration as far as the law is concerned.

As a matter of demographics, both in regards to shooters and criminals in general, they tend to be male and under the age of 36, This has been true going back as far as records have been kept. Bitching about the general attitudes of millennial's is one thing, accusing them of being any worse than any preceding generation is another, and wrong.

There is one thread that keeps rearing it's ugly head going all the way back to the Columbine shootings, psychotropic drugs. Read the contraindications on ALL of them, "may induce thoughts of suicide or homicide." Since the 1970's these drugs have been handed out like they originate from Pez dispensers, particularly to young males. It makes one consider that anyone that is being prescribed psychotropics should be be prohibited from having a firearm in their possession. The problem with that is that only a very small percentage are going to have homicidal thoughts (and back to the ACLU). And it's also a numbers game, the greater the number of individuals taking those drugs, the more greater the numerical number of those that ARE going to have those adverse indications. Which then begs the question, "Are we over prescribing these drugs?" Not because they are absolutely indicated, but merely for someone else's convenience?

 

[briie]

Let's start with the fact that I am right.

The mentally ill are not allowed to possess firearms, that is a matter of law and has been for quite some time. There is nothing in the law that states that only those that are mentally ill AND between the ages of this and that are prohibited. It's a blanket declaration as far as the law is concerned.

As a matter of demographics, both in regards to shooters and criminals in general, they tend to be male and under the age of 36, This has been true going back as far as records have been kept. Bitching about the general attitudes of millennial's is one thing, accusing them of being any worse than any preceding generation is another, and wrong.

There is one thread that keeps rearing it's ugly head going all the way back to the Columbine shootings, psychotropic drugs. Read the contraindications on ALL of them, "may induce thoughts of suicide or homicide." Since the 1970's these drugs have been handed out like they originate from Pez dispensers, particularly to young males. It makes one consider that anyone that is being prescribed psychotropics should be be prohibited from having a firearm in their possession. The problem with that is that only a very small percentage are going to have homicidal thoughts (and back to the ACLU). And it's also a numbers game, the greater the number of individuals taking those drugs, the more greater the numerical number of those that ARE going to have those adverse indications. Which then begs the question, "Are we over prescribing these drugs?" Not because they are absolutely indicated, but merely for someone else's convenience?

Yes!
Even if I'm anti-gun myself and I think that gun restriction is the best solution (I shudder to think that my family could be next)
That's the type of debate that one hopes to hear, instead of pointing fingers at 'those people', or seeing politicians try to score points.

I think it's a very complicated issue.
Many psychotropic drugs are life-saving but There Is that paradoxical effect if not monitored properly. Unfortunately, drug companies haven't come up with a better or more affordable substitute yet.

And many people nowadays Are over medicated. But why is that?
Part of it is condemnable due to bad habits, but part of it is understandable in a sense. I suspect that part of it is because health visits, therapists and field workers are costly, there is lack of personnel so it seems to be more cost-effective to pop pills.

 

[briie]

And why are there so many people nowadays who either feel unhappy with their situation so they go & ask for pills,, or whose mental illness is so easily triggered?
Isn't it -besides advertising by Pharma- because people are stressed seeing that society is crumbling around them?

Here both Dems and Reps are right:
the crumbling of the infrastructure, neofeudalism - Dems
the oversaturation of media with meaningless hedonistic stuff and the attack on those traditions that give us a sense of togetherness or purpose - Reps.

And it's not only the US that is in crisis: the % of youth suicide (particularly by teenage boys) has skyrocketted lately in other countries.

 

[coachdb18]

Yes!
Even if I'm anti-gun myself and I think that gun restriction is the best solution (I shudder to think that my family could be next)
That's the type of debate that one hopes to hear, instead of pointing fingers at 'those people', or seeing politicians try to score points.

I think it's a very complicated issue.
Many psychotropic drugs are life-saving but There Is that paradoxical effect if not monitored properly. Unfortunately, drug companies haven't come up with a better or more affordable substitute yet.

And many people nowadays Are over medicated. But why is that?
Part of it is condemnable due to bad habits, but part of it is understandable in a sense. I suspect that part of it is because health visits, therapists and field workers are costly, there is lack of personnel so it seems to be more cost-effective to pop pills.

There's so much screaming for a 'better health care system', and the naïve seem to only believe the health care system is 'better if they're being 'treated' for something, which is where the pharmaceutical companies come in. We've got a pill for this and a shot for that, such that you aren't 'healthy' unless you've got a whole cabinet full of drugs you take every day. It's almost to the point that if you're not taking them, there's something wrong with you... don't you understand that you've got a million things wrong with you, and you've been told so often you're defective and bucking the 'we have to do something' is akin to commenting that the Emperor has no clothes.

 

[bellisarius]

And why are there so many people nowadays who either feel unhappy with their situation so they go & ask for pills,, or whose mental illness is so easily triggered?
Isn't it -besides advertising by Pharma- because people are stressed seeing that society is crumbling around them?

Here both Dems and Reps are right:
the crumbling of the infrastructure, neofeudalism - Dems
the oversaturation of media with meaningless hedonistic stuff and the attack on those traditions that give us a sense of togetherness or purpose - Reps.

And it's not only the US that is in crisis: the % of youth suicide (particularly by teenage boys) has skyrocketted lately in other countries.

I was in a discussion not long ago about that with a mental health professional, he made the statement, as obvious as it was true, that, "They take drugs to escape the reality of their lives."

Why are so many trying to escape reality? I have no authoritative answer, but I do have a question to ponder. Could it be that the media is continuously telling us how miserable our lives are? How we are so oppressed by this and/or by that? It seems to me that this continual bombardment of negativity has to have an effect.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I'd love to hear yours.

What do you suggest??

For starters:

* Must be 21 to purchase/posses any kind of firearm.
* 7 day waiting period on all firearms.
* No private sales.
*Must carry liability insurance.
* Nothing beyond a handgun.
* Gun purchase limit.