This guy gets it: The GOP memo proves the ‘deep state’ is real

[BobBalouski]

Goodwin not only gets how lost the Republic already is, but even understands there's only one chance now left to prove whether patriots possess the WILL to do anything about what's already been lost.

The claims in the memo that FBI and Justice officials acted corruptly should concern all fair-minded Americans, regardless of political preference. Those claims force us to ask whether we are a nation of laws that apply equally to all.

If not, we are no longer America. We are a banana republic where it’s acceptable for the government to use its police powers against political opponents.

The choice we face is especially stark given that the case at hand potentially implicates other top aides to former President Barack Obama. Recall that Page and others linked to Trump were accused of having ties to Russia, then their names were leaked to the media in a bid to sway the election and then to topple the president. There may be other flimsy FISA applications covering other Trump associates we don’t yet know about.

The memo is a giant step in *uncovering what appears to be an unprecedented conspiracy, but it is not the endgame. More documents, congressional hearings, investigations and criminal prosecutions are unavoidable.

One chance left to reset America to its politically revolutionary potential, one last chance for American patriots to cease being derelict of their constitutional duty...

...and if not now - NEVER.

The GOP memo proves the ‘deep state’ is real
https://nypost.com/2018/02/03/the-gop-memo-proves-the-deep-state-is-real/

 

[Que]

"Journalists" are merely co-opted spokesmen for various factions. They "write" what their "sources" (handlers) tell them should be written. Since their sources (and committee Dems) made clearly untrue claims about national security being at risk, they have revealed the extent to which the rot goes.

The Washington Post arguing against the public's interest in knowing even the basis for these allegations is huge.

The sources for the above journalist may well be shading things the other way.

The fact that we don't seem to have any journalists with any actual integrity and curiosity is troubling.

A lot of it is because the left has co-opted the academic industrial complex and all journalists are educated somewhere in that morass.

 

[phrodeau]

Carter Page, 2013: "I have ties to Russian oligarchs and the Kremlin."

The media, 2016: "Carter Page has ties to Russian oligarchs and the Kremlin"

Republicans, 2018: How dare the media bring that up to influence the election, which by the way, we won with Russia's help."

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Goodwin not only gets how lost the Republic already is, but even understands there's only one chance now left to prove whether patriots possess the WILL to do anything about what's already been lost.



One chance left to reset America to its politically revolutionary potential, one last chance for American patriots to cease being derelict of their constitutional duty...

...and if not now - NEVER.

The GOP memo proves the ‘deep state’ is real
https://nypost.com/2018/02/03/the-gop-memo-proves-the-deep-state-is-real/

So is "reset[ting] America to its politically revolutionary potential" still in keeping with your longstanding commitment NOT to advocate violent overthrow of the government or any of its agencies?

Exactly HOW would you like to see that revolutionary potential realized and initiated. You never tell us. If the 'revolution' is to come via democratic elections, where (and who) are the candidates you wholeheartedly support?

Don't be shy. What's the frequency, Kenneth?

 

[Hypoxia]

The GOP memo proves the ‘deep state’ is real
https://nypost.com/2018/02/03/the-gop-memo-proves-the-deep-state-is-real/

So dismantle everything.

Fire and detain all federal officials and employees. Replace them with patriots pledging loyalty to the leader. Or better yet, don't replace them, just shrink gov't down to nothing. Fire any federal, state, and local cop, attorney, judge, or other official or officer who doesn't swear fealty. Purge the military of disloyal officers, enlistees, and contractors.

Declare the native-born to be Sovereign Citizens immune to gov't control and taxation -- if they can produce an unchallenged birth certificate. Deport or enslave everyone else. The jobless will be employed (re)building The Wall.

Happy now?
_____

Alternate view: The memo is bullshit and so are your contentions, as usual.

 

[about_average]

The claims in the memo that FBI and Justice officials acted corruptly should concern all fair-minded Americans

They do concern me, or at least the fact that so many trump kool-aid drinkers are eating them up.

The fact that so many americans will take the claims of a partisan who hasn't even read the underlying materials, much less included any evidence for his claims, are latched on to by so many people incapable of critical thinking as proving something is definitely very concerniIt's

It's also a national embarrassment.

 

[Hypoxia]

Gup-suckers should learn the basics of conspiracies. Go read some RA Wilson.

A deep conspiracy exerts control by building onions of disinformation. Peel back each layer and there's another layer underneath, and another, and another. Peel everything away and what's left is... nothing. It's all disinfo. Everything you think you know about the conspiracy is false, all designed to distract you from what's really happening.

Thus the Tromp-Gups' alleged Deep State, if real, is totally NOT what they imagine. They fell for the tricks. We can be sure their 'memo' is a cartoon script. Team Tromp tries to build their own disinfo onion but they're fucking amateurs. Feh.

 

[Que]

They do concern me, or at least the fact that so many trump kool-aid drinkers are eating them up.

The fact that so many americans will take the claims of a partisan who hasn't even read the underlying materials, much less included any evidence for his claims, are latched on to by so many people incapable of critical thinking as proving something is definitely very concerniIt's

It's also a national embarrassment.

It isn't a "national embarrasment," it is exclusively a blue dtate embarrassment. You're only embarrassed that your side got caught which is why all the bluster in your post. Talk about drinking the Kool-Aid your talking points are coming straight from the DNC. You don't know what Nunez did or didn't read.

 

[HisArpy]

It isn't a "national embarrasment," it is exclusively a blue dtate embarrassment. You're only embarrassed that your side got caught which is why all the bluster in your post. Talk about drinking the Kool-Aid your talking points are coming straight from the DNC. You don't know what Nunez did or didn't read.

He's banging hard on that "but there's no proof!" drum.

The Dem's counter-memo is going to be a laugh fest. "But, but, but..." What they aren't seeing (because they won't admit it) is that the evidence against the FISA/FBI/Comey/Strzok/Hillary/DNC/etc (we need an acronym for this) is like finding crumbs in between your bed sheets. You can SAY you don't eat crackers in bed all you want. You can demand "proof" that the crumbs are actually cracker crumbs. You can even allege that the crumbs were put there by nefarious actors.

What you can't do is claim that there are no crumbs once people see them. Yet, the Dem's are going to try it with their memo.

Good luck wit dat.

 

[Que]

On the flip side, no evidence of "collusion" with the Rooskies has been found (YET!)

. . .not that collusion, whatever that means is a crime.

in one of these other threads about average demanded a citation that all of the leading Democrats have been queried about any evidence that they may have seen or are privy to but are simply not free to release and all of them have reluctantly said that they haven't seen anything. At all. (As of this time!) Feinstein who is on Intell and the Dems ranking member on Judiciary admitted as much when Jake Tapper asked her. There's an entire Montage out there of Democrats admitting that none of them have seen anything that even sort of looks like evidence. But they know its there. Now, stating that of course doesn't harm the public trust in officials or affect National Security or how other countries would view our security apparatus even though they haven't actually seen any but actually seeing alphabet agencies misbehaving and speaking up about it of course is an atrocity.

I think Nunez and company are somewhat overstating things. I don't know what the rules are for the FISC, but the bar for such things as search warrants and grand jury proceedings are pretty low. Because there's no due process and there's no disclosure or notification of the target with a fisa warrant I would hope that the standards are a little higher but probably not much.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Gup-suckers should learn the basics of conspiracies. Go read some RA Wilson.

A deep conspiracy exerts control by building onions of disinformation. Peel back each layer and there's another layer underneath, and another, and another. Peel everything away and what's left is... nothing. It's all disinfo. Everything you think you know about the conspiracy is false, all designed to distract you from what's really happening.

Thus the Tromp-Gups' alleged Deep State, if real, is totally NOT what they imagine. They fell for the tricks. We can be sure their 'memo' is a cartoon script. Team Tromp tries to build their own disinfo onion but they're fucking amateurs. Feh.

Conspiracies have a minimal number of members as this one is proving to be. Wilson? How about Machiavelli? A conspiracy is a group of malcontents, each, who with exposure, has the ability to be contented.

 

[Que]

Endlessly circular logic.

People can and do conspire with each other to do things. Members of the government got caught engaging in an actual conspiracy to promote a phoney one. Hypoxia endlessly spins plots but can't follow this quite basic, real one.

 

[BobBalouski]

I think Nunez and company are somewhat overstating things. I don't know what the rules are for the FISC, but the bar for such things as search warrants and grand jury proceedings are pretty low. Because there's no due process and there's no disclosure or notification of the target with a fisa warrant I would hope that the standards are a little higher but probably not much.

Funny that you should ponder that because "former FBI special agent Asha Rangappa, now a senior lecturer at Yale" just happened to explain how hard it is to obtain a FISA warrant against anyone, under item 3. of a Washington Post piece today.

“I used to obtain Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrants, so I’m familiar with the procedures Nunes implies the FBI abused in this case,” she explains. “To initiate surveillance on [Page] … the government would have had to demonstrate that Page was ‘knowingly engaging in clandestine intelligence gathering activities for or on behalf of’ Russia. It takes months and even years to obtain enough relevant evidence for a FISA application, which can include details from physical surveillance, phone and financial records, items recovered from the target’s trash and intelligence obtained from other sources. So the FISA application would probably have outlined the bureau’s efforts going all the way back to 2013, when Page was approached by the FBI, which warned him, based on recordings of Russian intelligence officers, that he was being targeted for recruitment as a Russian spy.

“Nunes’s memo also discloses that the government obtained three renewals of the FISA warrant, which occurred every 90 days after the initial authorization. In order for a judge to allow the surveillance to continue, the government has to demonstrate that the intercepted communications are, in fact, providing foreign intelligence,” she continues. “Even worse for Nunes, he managed to showcase concrete proof that the FBI was looking into Trump’s Russian connections before they heard from [Christopher] Steele. The memo confirms that Australian intelligence was aware of possible ties between George Papadopoulos, another Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, and Russian intelligence, and that the Australians were alarmed enough to alert the FBI, which opened an investigation in July 2016.”

It's strange that the FBI, according to Rangappa, MUST have all this damning evidence against an individual BEFORE they can obtain a Fwarrant to prove even more against that individual, because Carter Page was under FBI investigation for almost 4 years before the FBI obtained an Fwarrant against him, which was renewed 3 times, which means 6 solid months (Fwarrants last 90 days) of the most intense investigation known to man, further meaning that Page has undergone 5 years now of the best American intelligence agencies can throw against him...

...and he still has not been charged with a single crime.

And "George Papadopoulos" who Rangappa also tries to indict further as being a Russian spy like Page? Yep, he's been investigated for that by America's intelligence agencies, too, but the only thing he's been charged with is lying to a federal investigator - just like Michael Flynn.

You see, facts are, that American intelligence FULLY knows everything about Page, Papadopoulos and Flynn and all their Russian connections, and there's not one aspect of those Russian connections that are anywhere close to being illegal enough that they can be charged with what so many have already convicted them of. Papadopoulos and Flynn weren't charged with what the feds fully knew about their Russian connections because they weren't illegal - both were charged with lying when what they lied about wasn't illegal.

If Papadopoulos and Flynn are guilty of actual illegalities regarding their Russian connections and Mueller is letting them off (for whatever reasons) with just lying to federal investigators, then Mueller should be crucified as corrupt.

And why hasn't Page ALREADY been charged and arrested for being a Russian spy if, as Rangappa asserts, "the government would have had to demonstrate that Page was knowingly engaging in clandestine intelligence gathering activities for or on behalf of’ Russia" for a Fwarrant to be issued for him in the first place? It totally isn't logical that the FBI already had enough evidence to prove Page was "knowingly" spying for Russia to obtain the Fwarrant, but yet even after a year has passed now after 6 months of Fwarrant fact gathering, Page has still not been arrested and charged with evidence it's insisted that the FBI demonstrated to a Fcourt judge.

EVERY individual who spies for Russia should be charged and arrested - I don't give a fvck who they are, no matter if it's even the President, regardless of her/his name, regardless her/his fvcking partisan political Party.

And EVERY federal official who has even misled in the least to further politically prosecute any American citizen should be charged, arrested, and spend the rest of their natural lives behind bars for their repugnant treason against the Constitution.

Why hasn't Mueller charged anyone with spying for Russia yet, despite all the factual evidence of their vast Russian connections? When will Mueller - OR ANYONE ELSE - present even an iota of actual evidence that Trump is an operative of Russia, as the infamous Steele dossier insists and was used as the disingenuous basis to Fwarrant Page (opening wide an investigative door to Trump himself without having to make that public)?

Congress must call the judge before them to FULLY account for his decision to issue the initial Fwarrant against Page, and the 3 renewals of it if he was the judge responsible for those decisions, too. If other judges were responsible for any of those renewals, they must be held FULLY accountable, too. And if that judge or those judges refuse to cooperate FULLY in any way, Congress should instantly impeach, convict and remove them from their positions.

FBIers Mueller and Comey are of the very same statist mind that there should be no area of American citizen life that federal law enforcement shouldn't have full and free access to WHENEVER federal law enforcement deems they should.

Both the Directors of National Intelligence and the CIA have intentionally flat-out lied under oath to Congress regarding their agencies' UNCONSTITUTIONAL spying practices on AMERICAN CITIZENS.

Individuals at very high levels of the FBI and DOJ intentionally massage information to serve partisan political Party purposes...

FUCK THIS STATIST, DEEP STATE BULLSHIT: I don't TRUST them and the statist federal government they're deep state servants to any further than I can throw one of their punkass lemming supporters like RINO Corporal Butthurt. I want VERIFICATION, that's ALL, and after all these years of observing their actions, they've criminally proven to me beyond any shadow of a logical doubt now they're not even interested in simple truth.

How many are warning now that this country can't survive if its citizens lose confidence in its federal institutions? Yet almost all still play that ignorant game as Washington actually burns.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...7cb0930fb041c3c7d762c/?utm_term=.b83ceb667c33

 

[BobBalouski]

So is "reset[ting] America to its politically revolutionary potential" still in keeping with your longstanding commitment NOT to advocate violent overthrow of the government or any of its agencies?

Exactly HOW would you like to see that revolutionary potential realized and initiated. You never tell us. If the 'revolution' is to come via democratic elections, where (and who) are the candidates you wholeheartedly support?

Don't be shy. What's the frequency, Kenneth?

Fucking totally clueless, totally statist lemming.

I've posted probably a million words intentionally and purposely focused on this specific subject alone and not a single one them even hints at your offering of offensive physical aggression of any kind, yet hundreds - at least - of them precisely and intentionally offers the ONLY truly American answer (which is as PEACEFUL as America's founders initially employed)...

...and federalist fanboy dumbfucks like you can't help but continue to project and ascribe your own bigotry simply because you're obviously to FUCKING STUPID to realize exactly that.

The fact is that the average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary, exactly like his love of sense, justice and truth. He is not actually happy when free; he is uncomfortable, a bit alarmed, and intolerably lonely. Liberty is not a thing for the great masses of men. It is the exclusive possession of a small and disreputable minority, like knowledge, courage and honor. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty — and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies.

H.L. Mencken

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!

Samuel Adams

 

[HisArpy]

Funny that you should ponder that because "former FBI special agent Asha Rangappa, now a senior lecturer at Yale" just happened to explain how hard it is to obtain a FISA warrant against anyone, under item 3. of a Washington Post piece today.



It's strange that the FBI, according to Rangappa, MUST have all this damning evidence against an individual BEFORE they can obtain a Fwarrant to prove even more against that individual, because Carter Page was under FBI investigation for almost 4 years before the FBI obtained an Fwarrant against him, which was renewed 3 times, which means 6 solid months (Fwarrants last 90 days) of the most intense investigation known to man, further meaning that Page has undergone 5 years now of the best American intelligence agencies can throw against him...

...and he still has not been charged with a single crime.

Snipped to save bandwidth (and my eyes)

The interesting thing is that PAGE was under surveillance for 4 years prior to his being employed by the Trump Campaign. No FISA warrant, no charges against him.

Then...

The TRUMP dossier shows up. Hmm, interesting. Apparently the FBI thought it ok to go get a FISA warrant against PAGE based on a dossier about someone else and then spy on all of them.

Yet, STILL no charges against PAGE.

Trump is elected, Flynn and others in the transition team are unmasked and Flynn eventually charged. Manifort is charged, and a couple of others are also charged for nothing offenses. No charges against Trump OR PAGE but NOW the allegations are that TRUMP is the Russian agent. Even though there's NO EVIDENCE of this and those in the know have said so.

But, let's not worry, TRUMP is the evil bad guy! NOW he's obstructing justice! So Rosenstein appoints a special counsel (good buddy Mueller) and states in the appointment documents that NO CRIME is being alleged against Trump.

But, the DEM'S and the MSM are insisting the Trump will be indicted by Mueller for Russian collusion and then impeached for obstruction of justice. For what? removing the head guy who was LEAKING CLASSIFIED INFO?

Oh, I know why it's obstruction. It's obstruction for firing the guy who was "not investigating" a NON-CRIME. Comey told Trump THREE TIMES he wasn't under investigation. So Trump firing him while Trump wasn't being investigated is obstructing something that wasn't happening?



The logic fail is immense.

No evidence against Page.
No evidence against Trump.
No crime alleged to get Mueller appointed.
STILL no evidence of collusion.
The Nunes memo shows the fuckups by the FBI
And now the Dems are LEAKING MORE CLASSIFIED INFO. Again. To prove that they weren't doing what the Nunes memo said they were doing?

Honestly, I don't think Shakespeare could have written this plot and gotten it published.

 

[Hypoxia]

I see the headless chickens are still running loose.

Know nothing of law; know nothing of the investigations; hear and echo speculations.

Crimes have already been confessed and confirmed.

Patience, grasshoppers.

 

[Colonel Hogan]

Fucking totally clueless, totally statist ... blah, blah, blah.....

Just answer the question, dipshit.

Since your political "revolution" is non-violent, who do you VOTE for? And if voting for a slate of ANY political candidate(s) from socialist to Tea Partiers to anything in-between is your methodology, what the hell is there about that that is "revolutionary"?

We've been doing it for quite awhile now.

 

[about_average]

It isn't a "national embarrasment," it is exclusively a blue dtate embarrassment. You're only embarrassed that your side got caught which is why all the bluster in your post.

My side? I don't work for the FBI.
And "got caught" doing what?

Talk about drinking the Kool-Aid your talking points are coming straight from the DNC. You don't know what Nunez did or didn't read.

Hmmm, true. Maybe nunes is lying about that too.

Devin Nunes, the congressman who authored a disputed memo alleging improper surveillance of Trump associates by the FBI and the Department of Justice, admitted he didn't view the underlying intelligence on which he based the memo.

http://www.businessinsider.com/devi...memo-intelligence-russia-investigation-2018-2

On the flip side, no evidence of "collusion" with the Rooskies has been found (YET!)

. . .not that collusion, whatever that means is a crime.

in one of these other threads about average demanded a citation that all of the leading Democrats have been queried about any evidence that they may have seen or are privy to but are simply not free to release and all of them have reluctantly said that they haven't seen anything.

You really shouldn't make such blatant lies. Quit taking lessons from trump in recognizing the truth.

 

[about_average]

I've posted probably a million words intentionally and purposely focused on this specific subject alone and not a single one them even hints at your offering of offensive physical aggression of any kind....

Misquoting Jefferson doesn't hide your intent.

 

[JohnnySavage]

It sounds like Trump really sucks at managing his employees. Maybe that's why so many of his businesses have failed?

 

[about_average]

I finally tried to read the linked article.
I made it about half way through the bullshit speculation of the author before I gave up on finding any shred of evidence that he "gets it."

But it's not surprising. It's difficult, even for a published commentator, to write an opinion piece about an opinion piece that's devoid of any actual evidence and point to any hard facts.

 

[Que]

I finally tried to read the linked article.
I made it about half way through the bullshit speculation of the author before I gave up on finding any shred of evidence that he "gets it."

But it's not surprising. It's difficult, even for a published commentator, to write an opinion piece about an opinion piece that's devoid of any actual evidence and point to any hard facts.

You keep repeating your opinion about the dearth of facts as if your opinion is a fact.

 

[about_average]

You keep repeating your opinion about the dearth of facts as if your opinion is a fact.

Ok, so link to the facts.
Prove me wrong and I'll admit I'm wrong.

I've read the memo, there was not a single corroborating piece of information attached.
Apparently you have access to information I haven't been able to find.

 

[phrodeau]

Ok, so link to the facts.
Prove me wrong and I'll admit I'm wrong.

I've read the memo, there was not a single corroborating piece of information attached.
Apparently you have access to information I haven't been able to find.

Troll don't link.

 

[Que]

Ok, so link to the facts.
Prove me wrong and I'll admit I'm wrong.

I've read the memo, there was not a single corroborating piece of information attached.
Apparently you have access to information I haven't been able to find.

You're playing the same troll game that you play here on the board. CITE?!??

Way to move the goalposts you're arguing that facts that are laid out in the memo are not facts unless they are annotated with links to classified information that meets your standards and satisfaction. That doesn't change the fact that a fact is a fact even if you don't know the source of that fact or whether you personally are able to verify those facts. You're free to believe that they are lying about what the facts are but they are laying out the facts as gathered by Trey Gowdy from the source material that neither you nor I have access too. Democrats who have had access to those source materials are not disputing the FACTS contained in the memo. Facts can be in dispute, facts an be misstated, facts can be in error. But facts are facts.

You need to reread your talking points more carefully. What the Dems are arguing is that some of those facts should not have seen the light of day- because reasons. They also are claiming that some of those facts would be mitigated by other facts that were not included with those facts. What Dems are not claiming, but you are, iis that there are no fax in the memo.

Let me give you some helpful information about facts that I learned in 7th grade journalism class. If it involves who what when why or where it is a fact. reporters are supposed to deal with facts as they know them and not opinions. It may or may not be a truthful fact, it may be later become ill relevant as other fax come to light it may turn out to be not truthful as other fax come to light, but a fact it is.

Conclusions reached in the Nunez meno are his conclusions because they are derived from the facts that he chose to include or exclude. You can certainly argue with the conclusion, but you're a fucking idiot to argue that there are no facts in a four-page memo.