So, you think this memo thing has legs?

[richard_daily]

The Wood's Rule REQUIRES that the information be verified, not just submitted.

Whether the FISA court was told it was oppo research or not is under a cloud of debate. However, what ISN'T in doubt is that the memo was still unverified and should NEVER have been presented to the FISA court as part of a warrant application.

So here's the rub... FISA is a secret court. You don't have any clue who verifies the information. You trust big government when it comes to national security, right?

I don't, but guys like you always do.

This is what you get from that.

This is what all the republicans that voted to extend FISA got.

This was the biggest failure of the Obama regime, not shutting down the unconstitutional FISA court. Guantanamo is a close second.

 

[richard_daily]

Clueless as to the reasons for the Electoral College? Without it, only high-population states would determine elections and smaller, low-population states would never see a national politician nor have any say in the national governance thanks to the pernicious evil that is the 17th Amendment, which really should be repealed along with the 16th, and most certainly the 19th!

​

Who cares about the little guys? Why do they need protection? They can always move.

These are the typical not-republican talking points on any social issues and worker's rights... so why not apply these arguments equally and fairly?

 

[Aglaopheme]

You are making two large assumptions one being that Papadopoulos is a dead end. You don’t know what else has come out of his cooperation with the investigators, and two that there was not other evidence besides the dossier presented. C

 

[Rightguide]

Opposition research is just that, research done by or commissioned by the opposition. It diesn’t mean the info is incorrect. Get over it. They were told it was oppo research, just as they were told the same about the Shearer memo. I’m guessing we are going to be hearing a lot more about that. Again, just because it is research done by the opposition doesn’t mean it doesn’t have legs. Clearly, the FBI and Mueller believes it does.

You are wrong. According to Comey's sworn testimony it was “salacious and unverified.” Bill Priestap testified that corroboration of the dossier was in its "infancy" at the time of the intitial Page FISA application. When Comey went to the White House to inform the President of the Dossier he told Trump it was salacious and unverifiable. The fact is this dossier should never have been used to apply for a warrant in the first place according to "Wood's Procedure" which was the DOJ standard for such applications.

 

[HisArpy]

The steel papers weren't the start of the FBIs investigation into Page, so even if this is a mistake, it doesnt' take away the fact that they'd already been looking at him for 3 years, before Trump even hired him for his campaign.

This is true. But explain the jump from surveilling Page to "Trump's the Russian agent" based on a "salacious and unverified" dossier about Trump that only mentions Page in passing?

 

[Aglaopheme]

A footnote saying that the information "may have a political taint" is not at all the disclosure you are fleshing out above. The entirety of the "information" was a narrative written for Hillary and the DNC and peddled several locations and those disparate end recipients from the same actual source were used to "corroborate" each other.

It was done to innoculate Clinton from the easilly made charge that she was beholden to the Russians for the money they had given her. Trump's campaign didn't actually harp on that, so the bullshit "dossier" wasn't released publically until after she lost, and within hours of her (reluctant) concession speech her strategists decided it would spice up the "we lost because boris and natasha hacked our deplorable emails" excuse. We know this because there were reporters in the room when they decided to do just that. We did not know this at the time because those reporters kept that information for the book that they wrote about the Clinton campaign.

You can pretend that it's perfectly okay to do exactly what they did but don't pretend that they didn't do exactly what they did. The "dossier" was only called that because a super-spy was hired to take bullshit fed to him by Clinton cronies and apparently authored by him or random contacts of his and give it the imprimateur of "research." Oppositon research involves actually going out and finding out things that are true, not making up stuff and throwing it in a manila folder. Making up things is called fiction not research.

Interesting. Who has received billions and billions from the Russians?

 

[Que]

You are making two large assumptions one being that Papadopoulos is a dead end. You don’t know what else has come out of his cooperation with the investigators, and two that there was not other evidence besides the dossier presented. C

No, Papadopoulos was decided to be a blowhard and a dead end by the FBI. they most likely though wired him up after scaring him with a process crime in hopes that Trump would say something stupid which is a reasonable assumption since Trump says something stupid anytime's his lips are moving.

I sometimes forget that there are still hold-outs by those on your side including you whom I consider reasonably political astute and reasonably intelligent actually think there was some sort of Russian collusion and that it's going to be uncovered. Get over it there wasn't any and therefore it won't be uncovered.

Most of the time when I read that nonsense I assume it's just posturing and defensiveness I forget that sometimes you actually believe this stuff I understand why you want to believe it but it's nonsense if you follow this at all it makes no logical sense that the Russians would have anything of value to offer that would counter Hillary's massive war chest. Hillary lost while out spending Trump almost 2 to 1 because Hillary was an atrocious candidate.

 

[Que]

Interesting. Who has received billions and billions from the Russians?

"Received" is a rather interesting way to compare and contrast the difference between a debt obligation that must be replayed and an outright bribe.

 

[Aglaopheme]

No, Papadopoulos was decided to be a blowhard and a dead end by the FBI. they most likely though wired him up after scaring him with a process crime in hopes that Trump would say something stupid which is a reasonable assumption since Trump says something stupid anytime's his lips are moving.

I sometimes forget that there are still hold-outs by those on your side including you whom I consider reasonably political astute and reasonably intelligent actually think there was some sort of Russian collusion and that it's going to be uncovered. Get over it there wasn't any and therefore it won't be uncovered.

Most of the time when I read that nonsense I assume it's just posturing and defensiveness I forget that sometimes you actually believe this stuff I understand why you want to believe it but it's nonsense if you follow this at all it makes no logical sense that the Russians would have anything of value to offer that would counter Hillary's massive war chest. Hillary lost while out spending Trump almost 2 to 1 because Hillary was an atrocious candidate.

Cite?

 

[Que]

This is true. But explain the jump from surveilling Page to "Trump's the Russian agent" based on a "salacious and unverified" dossier about Trump that only mentions Page in passing?

More to the point, explain why the dash to get a FISA warrant on page only AFTER he just so happened to have members of the opposition's Presidential campaign in his list of recently called numbers. Carter Page was not suspected of BEING a Russian spy when he came to the attention of the FBI (with whoom he COOPERATED) he was suspected of being the TARGET of Russian spies.

 

[Que]

Cite?

He was charged with a process crime. You do that when there is not a bigger, scarier crime to hold over their head. It's called logical inference. You should try it sometime.

 

[HisArpy]

So here's the rub... FISA is a secret court. You don't have any clue who verifies the information. You trust big government when it comes to national security, right?

I don't, but guys like you always do.

This is what you get from that.

This is what all the republicans that voted to extend FISA got.

This was the biggest failure of the Obama regime, not shutting down the unconstitutional FISA court. Guantanamo is a close second.

2 problems. First is the expected ad hominem attack. When you can't defend, you attack the messenger with false facts.

I don't know what was in the FISA application. What I do know is that the memo says the information was unverified. I know that transcripts of Comey's testimony say it was unverified. I know that media reports are all in sync that the information was unverified. I know that no one has changed any part of the dossier from unverified to verified to this day. I know that the Wood's memo requires the information to be verified.

So, the fact that I'm not privy to the actual application information doesn't defeat what I know/believe to be true based upon multiple sources of information.


#2 is that my political preferences are irrelevant to the above. Thus, your slurs are an indication of your partisanship as well as lack of integrity. You state baldly that you don't trust big government, yet you are supporting the meme of the Dem's that all of the information in the Nunes memo is false despite a lot of the information in the memo already being known to the public. If that's not trusting big gov, I don't know what is.


I do agree that the FISA court should be disbanded. It's anathema to the USA and our way of life. A regular court can do that job and the warrant applications be placed under seal. Even the file itself can be placed under seal and no one gets access to it without a court order.

Close Gitmo and we'll transfer the prisoners to some facility run by allies. Allies who have no qualms against actual torture to get information. So, getting your Gitmo dreams fulfilled is actually VERY BAD for the detainees. Yet that's what you want?

 

[Aglaopheme]

And you actually believe that.


Received:

The significance of such transactions is not lost on Special Counsel Robert Mueller. Citing a person familiar with the F.B.I. probe, Bloomberg reported in July that Mueller’s team is investigating a series of deals Trump struck, including the Trump Organization’s failed SoHo development that involved Russian nationals, the 2013 Miss Universe pageant in Moscow, and the president’s sale of a Palm Beach estate in 2008. All three deals have drawn scrutiny for their ties to Russian interests; as Craig Unger outlined for the Hive, the 2014 Trump SoHo development is likely of interest to Mueller thanks to the involvement of Felix Sater—a Moscow-born, Russian-American businessman who did time for stabbing a man in the face with a margarita glass—and the now-defunct company he worked for, the Bayrock Group. Similarly, Russian developer Aras Agalarov, whose son Emin helped broker the controversial Trump Tower meeting last June between Donald Trump Jr. and Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya, paid $20 million to bring Miss Universe to Moscow. And Russian fertilizer magnate Dmitry Rybolovlev bought the Florida mansion for a staggering sum of $95 million in 2008—despite Trump having paid just $41 million for the property four years prior.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/11/christopher-steele-robert-mueller-trump-russia-dossier

 

[richard_daily]

This is true. But explain the jump from surveilling Page to "Trump's the Russian agent" based on a "salacious and unverified" dossier about Trump that only mentions Page in passing?

The "salacious and unverified dossier" is a side note at best in the Russia investigation.

Trump's familiy members met with Russian officials under the pretext that they would be getting information from a foreign government on Clinton.

This is all absolute fact.

That alone would be enough to open this investigation, however there are countless more examples that add to the growing pile against Trump.

It now looks like the angle will be money laundering and obstruction of justice. Both of which are bad news for the cheeto.

 

[Aglaopheme]

He was charged with a process crime. You do that when there is not a bigger, scarier crime to hold over their head. It's called logical inference. You should try it sometime.

How do you know what they are or are not “holding over his head”?

 

[richard_daily]

I do agree that the FISA court should be disbanded. It's anathema to the USA and our way of life. A regular court can do that job and the warrant applications be placed under seal. Even the file itself can be placed under seal and no one gets access to it without a court order.

Good. Have you contacted your congresspeople and let them know your position?

Close Gitmo and we'll transfer the prisoners to some facility run by allies. Allies who have no qualms against actual torture to get information. So, getting your Gitmo dreams fulfilled is actually VERY BAD for the detainees. Yet that's what you want?

Holding someone without charging them for 17 years is not the american way.

Are you ok with secret military courts? I'm not.

 

[Aglaopheme]

The "salacious and unverified dossier" is a side note at best in the Russia investigation.

Trump's familiy members met with Russian officials under the pretext that they would be getting information from a foreign government on Clinton.

This is all absolute fact.

That alone would be enough to open this investigation, however there are countless more examples that add to the growing pile against Trump.

It now looks like the angle will be money laundering and obstruction of justice. Both of which are bad news for the cheeto.

As did the non dead end Papadopoulos.

An Australian newspaper has confirmed a New York Times report that George Papadopoulos, then a foreign policy adviser to Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump, told Australia's top diplomat in Britain that Russia had access to hacked emails from the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign weeks before they began appearing online.

http://www.newsweek.com/papadopoulos-russia-clinton-campaign-email-hack-767462

 

[richard_daily]

How do you know what they are or are not “holding over his head”?

He doesnt' know shit. He's hoping and praying. He loves cheetolini, and would follow him to the ends of the earth.

 

[Que]

And you actually believe that.


Received:



https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/11/christopher-steele-robert-mueller-trump-russia-dossier

"Drawn scrutiny" and "involved Russians" versus MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in speaking fees and outright donations quite obviously in a quid-pro-quo for Uranium One.

Yep, clearly it's Trump with the Russian problem, and then there is that whole Russian prositute scandal that has "drawn scrutiny."

Just admit that the entire point of the exercise is to continue to invent reasons to have a special counsel in place until after the midterm elections in hopes that the Democrats regain the house so that they can impeach him for exercising his executive perogative and removing Comey... where he then won't be removed by the Senate and you can claim that you got his scalp. It's nothing more than that.

 

[Que]

How do you know what they are or are not “holding over his head”?

What sense would it make to use a bullshit charge if you had a better one? You think that there was some mysterious better charge out there for scooter Libby?

 

[Aglaopheme]

"Drawn scrutiny" and "involved Russians" versus MILLIONS OF DOLLARS in speaking fees and outright donations quite obviously in a quid-pro-quo for Uranium One.

Yep, clearly it's Trump with the Russian problem, and then there is that whole Russian prositute scandal that has "drawn scrutiny."

Just admit that the entire point of the exercise is to continue to invent reasons to have a special counsel in place until after the midterm elections in hopes that the Democrats regain the house so that they can impeach him for exercising his executive perogative and removing Comey... where he then won't be removed by the Senate and you can claim that you got his scalp. It's nothing more than that.

No one wants to impeach him for firing Comey alone. Don’t be silly.

 

[Que]

No one wants to impeach him for firing Comey alone. Don’t be silly.

It's all you have, and it is all you will ever have.

 

[Aglaopheme]

It’s called a plea deal.

 

[about_average]

You are wrong. According to Comey's sworn testimony it was “salacious and unverified.”

Apparently you, missed this. I'll repeat it.

A person's opinion piece that takes two words completely out of context as evidence is proof of absolutely nothing.

 

[Que]

It’s called a plea deal.

Operative part of that is "deal". Prosecutors use them to exert leverage. You use the biggest lever you can, because Archimedes.