How Erotic is Erotic?

[MelissaBaby]

I've gotten very good response overall for the chapters I have published from my novella. But several times, I've gotten responses to the effect that, while they liked the story, they didn't find it very erotic.

It made me ponder just what makes something an erotic story. Erotic content is a key component in my writing, but the overall theme is not erotic. Does that disqualify it as erotica?

 

[ElectricBlue]

Melissababy's story file here:

https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=3712374&page=submissions


Might be a good idea to give us a precis of your story. In so doing you might answer your own question.

Erotica is a thousand things to a thousand people. What is erotic and sensual to one person can be a complete turn off to the next person - this is one of the unanswerable questions, I think.

 

[sr71plt]

There's no answer to that. It would be in the eye of the beholder and there are literally hundreds of thousands of separate beholders here, with separate views, and a random mix of beholders will read a specific work. To such a question, you're only going to get a small smattering of opinions that will be meaningless as guidance of any sort.

You could be spending the wheel-spinning time on putting such a question out for comments by writing another work that pleases you, whether erotica or not. You'd then be ahead of the game.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Melissababy's story file here:

https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=3712374&page=submissions


Might be a good idea to give us a precis of your story. In so doing you might answer your own question.

Erotica is a thousand things to a thousand people. What is erotic and sensual to one person can be a complete turn off to the next person - this is one of the unanswerable questions, I think.

Thanks. I am writing a novelization of my experiences as a drug addict, a convict and a person in recovery. By the very nature of it, it contains material of a sexual nature, but it is not meant primarily to titillate the reader.

 

[MelissaBaby]

There's no answer to that. It would be in the eye of the beholder and there are literally hundreds of thousands of separate beholders here, with separate views, and a random mix of beholders will read a specific work. To such a question, you're only going to get a small smattering of opinions that will be meaningless as guidance of any sort.

You could be spending the wheel-spinning time on putting such a question out for comments by writing another work that pleases you, whether erotica or not. You'd then be ahead of the game.

I don't expect a definitive answer, I was merely soliciting the opinions of other authors for consideration.

I don't understand why you would characterize the simple asking of a question as "wheel spinning". If you object to my asking, you are under no obligation to spin your own wheels replying.

 

[sr71plt]

Thanks. I am writing a novelization of my experiences as a drug addict, a convict and a person in recovery. By the very nature of it, it contains material of a sexual nature, but it is not meant primarily to titillate the reader.

To bare yourself like this, you're going to have to develop a very (very!) thick skin and probably just not look at comments if you want to survive. Certainly not run after each comment you get. Already today on two boards you have shown this may be a problem for you. Sorry to be blunt, but there it is (from someone who has been publishing for more than two decades, including two memoirs--from my two separate lives).

 

[sr71plt]

I don't understand why you would characterize the simple asking of a question as "wheel spinning". If you object to my asking, you are under no obligation to spin your own wheels replying.

Well, because it is wheel's spinning, for the reason I--and electricblue66-- gave already (in addition to the response Butters gave your self-described "rant" on the poetry board). That you have responded to this post just confirms for me that you are headed for "a bad place" to be writing what you say you're going to be writing and for being so thin skinned about comment. I won't continue with this discussion because if you don't understand and absorb what I've advised, that's going to be your problem. So, there's no need for you to snap back at me. I get your attitude already.

 

[MelissaBaby]

To bare yourself like this, you're going to have to develop a very (very!) thick skin and probably just not look at comments if you want to survive. Certainly not run after each comment you get. Already today on two boards you have shown this may be a problem for you. Sorry to be blunt, but there it is (from someone who has been publishing for more than two decades, including two memoirs--from my two separate lives).

You have completely misinterpreted me, and I will take full responsibility for not making myself clear.

I did not regard the comments about the erotic content of my stories as negative. In fact, and again, I apparently wasn't clear, they are probably correct. What I am writing may well not fit into most people conception of erotica, which is why I solicited the opinions of other authors on the matter. I hardly see that as thin skinned. I will admit, however, that I am determinedly unwilling to be patronized, so I agree, it is probably for the best that we end this exchange.

 

[sr71plt]

I will admit, however, that I am determinedly unwilling to be patronized,

Oh, I don't think I've misinterpreted you in the least. Best of luck in the world of writing. You're going to need it.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Oh, I don't think I've misinterpreted you in the least. Best of luck in the world of writing. You're going to need it.

i believe I've survived worse.

 

[SimonDoom]

Well, first, whether or not it's "erotic", your story is well-written. You have a nice style. That's more important than whether this or that label should be attached to it.

I read the first two chapters, and I would not describe the story so far as "erotica", even if it has erotic elements, because the erotic elements are not the focus of the story.

A lot of readers on this site will judge your story on the first chapter. If they are looking for something erotic, which many of them on this site are, they won't find it in the first chapter, and they won't read the second chapter. The result is you'll get a big dropoff in readers for your second chapter, and for chapters after that. That appears to be what happened between your first and second stories.

That's not necessarily a reason NOT to keep writing the story the way you want to. From what I saw you are off to a good start, and as your commentators have said, your story is very well-written. Just be aware that posting your story in multiple chapters to an erotic story website, where some of the chapters are not especially erotic, may not yield the viewer response that you want.

 

[jaF0]

Based on your posts, I wouldn't even try to read your 'novella'. This is a sex site. Stories that don't include doing the Funky Monkey wont get much attention. Stories that are too verbose (like your posts) will put people to sleep. Zzz......

See John.

See Sally suck John's dick.

See John fuck Sally like a two dollar street whore.

Lit Winning stuff right there!


If you want to bore people to death with words, go for the grocery store romance section.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Thanks. I am writing a novelization of my experiences as a drug addict, a convict and a person in recovery. By the very nature of it, it contains material of a sexual nature, but it is not meant primarily to titillate the reader.

That's going to be tough content to make erotic in the long run, I would have thought. I recall a similar enquiry a couple of months ago from an ex heroin user, wondering why folk weren't clicking with his writing. The answer in his case was very depressing content far beyond the experience of most readers here, and certainly not arousing (for most readers, that is - there are people here who get turned on by the most ... unusual... things).

But your primary purpose doesn't seem to be finding an external audience - I suspect you are your own most important audience.

I hope your writing is healing for you - but it probably won't be "erotica" in the generally accepted definition (whatever that is). Whether or not others go along for the ride is another thing entirely, and will depend on the power of your writing. Still, there's been some powerful writing come out of this kind of thing over the years - 'Christianne F', 'Candy', anything by Irvine Welsh...

 

[latecomer91364]

I've gotten very good response overall for the chapters I have published from my novella. But several times, I've gotten responses to the effect that, while they liked the story, they didn't find it very erotic.

It made me ponder just what makes something an erotic story. Erotic content is a key component in my writing, but the overall theme is not erotic. Does that disqualify it as erotica?

People will make the strangest comments. I would not let it worry you. If there is erotic content, but the focus of the story is not 'straight-up' erotic, I don't see that as a problem. It is an erotica/porn site, so more than a few people will be reading your (and anybody else's) stories 'one-handed', and different category readers have different criteria. I write in a few categories, but hover mostly over Crossdressing/Transexual and Gay Male, and they can be an unforgiving bunch if they start reading and don't have it out of their pants in short order.

Erotica is different for everybody. Your own voice is what's important. Develop that, and you will develop the audience that responds to it. Forget about the rest, the comments that feel negative. Write for an audience in mind, but write to please yourself above all (after all, nobody's getting paid, so there's no good reason to 'sell out').

 

[SamScribble]

I had a friend - many years ago - who used to review recipes for a weekly newspaper. Not restaurants; recipes. And, to be fair to her, she was a very good writer.

About once a month, she used to get a note from one of her female admirers telling her how erotic her prose was.

The lesson: you can never tell what will push the buttons.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Well, first, whether or not it's "erotic", your story is well-written. You have a nice style. That's more important than whether this or that label should be attached to it.

I read the first two chapters, and I would not describe the story so far as "erotica", even if it has erotic elements, because the erotic elements are not the focus of the story.

A lot of readers on this site will judge your story on the first chapter. If they are looking for something erotic, which many of them on this site are, they won't find it in the first chapter, and they won't read the second chapter. The result is you'll get a big dropoff in readers for your second chapter, and for chapters after that. That appears to be what happened between your first and second stories.

That's not necessarily a reason NOT to keep writing the story the way you want to. From what I saw you are off to a good start, and as your commentators have said, your story is very well-written. Just be aware that posting your story in multiple chapters to an erotic story website, where some of the chapters are not especially erotic, may not yield the viewer response that you want.

Thank you very much for your comments. I think I agree with you that erotica is best defined as being focused on the erotic elements, not just including them.

I began writing about my experiences in a journal on another site, and when I decided I should expand on what I was writing,I looked for another place to do so, and Lit seemed the best fit. Most story sites that accept sexual content seems to want nothing but sexual content, while most "straight" sites seemed likely to shy away from the sex, drugs and violence that are part of the narrative.

Naturally, I would love to have a large audience, but I am not seeking one. I am writing for myself, as a vital step in my recovery. It has been very cathartic and is helping me achieve closure on many issues. so from my point of view, it has been successful.

But, in addition, I have received some wonderful feedback that has touched me deeply. In particular, one reader wrote to me to tell me that after reading my first few chapters, he had begun to achieve an understanding of his son's struggle with drug abuse. If I can reach even one person in that way, it is worth all the effort.

 

[MelissaBaby]

That's going to be tough content to make erotic in the long run, I would have thought. I recall a similar enquiry a couple of months ago from an ex heroin user, wondering why folk weren't clicking with his writing. The answer in his case was very depressing content far beyond the experience of most readers here, and certainly not arousing (for most readers, that is - there are people here who get turned on by the most ... unusual... things).

But your primary purpose doesn't seem to be finding an external audience - I suspect you are your own most important audience.

I hope your writing is healing for you - but it probably won't be "erotica" in the generally accepted definition (whatever that is). Whether or not others go along for the ride is another thing entirely, and will depend on the power of your writing. Still, there's been some powerful writing come out of this kind of thing over the years - 'Christianne F', 'Candy', anything by Irvine Welsh...

Your comments are very perceptive, thank you. It is an act of healing, and to an extent, of atonement. I hope others will appreciate it, but it is, at its heart for myself.

I am very aware that many readers will shy away from subject matter that they fear will be depressing, so I have structured the long term narrative as two storylines, alternating between the chapters, one describing my life going off track and the other my recovery. In this way, I hope to keep readers from giving up along the way.

I have also tried to include a little humor in each chapter, although I fear some of my jokes may be such in-jokes that no one else gets them! (For example, the "gentleman's club" is named the Cheetah Lounge, and I am from Maine, so, think of a Maine accent...)

 

[MelissaBaby]

People will make the strangest comments. I would not let it worry you. If there is erotic content, but the focus of the story is not 'straight-up' erotic, I don't see that as a problem. It is an erotica/porn site, so more than a few people will be reading your (and anybody else's) stories 'one-handed', and different category readers have different criteria. I write in a few categories, but hover mostly over Crossdressing/Transexual and Gay Male, and they can be an unforgiving bunch if they start reading and don't have it out of their pants in short order.

Erotica is different for everybody. Your own voice is what's important. Develop that, and you will develop the audience that responds to it. Forget about the rest, the comments that feel negative. Write for an audience in mind, but write to please yourself above all (after all, nobody's getting paid, so there's no good reason to 'sell out').

Thank you. I have found that there is a definite audience for anything to do with women in prison. I have gotten many questions about very specific details. One reader was disappointed that I did not go into much greater detail in describing how EXACTLY I was shackled for transport. How long were the chains? How tight were they? How much could I move in them? To please some of them ,I'd have to have whole chapters just describing every little aspect of being imprisoned. The would be like those chapters in Moby Dick that go on and on in detail about whaling.

But, they read every word I wrote, god bless them!

 

[MelissaBaby]

I had a friend - many years ago - who used to review recipes for a weekly newspaper. Not restaurants; recipes. And, to be fair to her, she was a very good writer.

About once a month, she used to get a note from one of her female admirers telling her how erotic her prose was.

The lesson: you can never tell what will push the buttons.

I totally understand. My boyfriend is a chef and I can listen to him talk about food for hours. It's something he loves, and love is love.

 

[ElectricBlue]

But, in addition, I have received some wonderful feedback that has touched me deeply. In particular, one reader wrote to me to tell me that after reading my first few chapters, he had begun to achieve an understanding of his son's struggle with drug abuse. If I can reach even one person in that way, it is worth all the effort.

Yes, that's powerful.

I received a comment from a woman who'd had a double mastectomy after breast cancer, who thanked me for writing a story about a woman with paraplegia - she said it gave her affirmation that love and sensuality can still survive great physical suffering. That was very humbling, that someone who's suffered more than I can ever imagine, thanks me.

Words are powerful indeed. I often think those that can use them effectively almost have a duty to do so. Erotica with a social conscience, perhaps.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Based on your posts, I wouldn't even try to read your 'novella'. This is a sex site. Stories that don't include doing the Funky Monkey wont get much attention. Stories that are too verbose (like your posts) will put people to sleep. Zzz......

See John.

See Sally suck John's dick.

See John fuck Sally like a two dollar street whore.

Lit Winning stuff right there!


If you want to bore people to death with words, go for the grocery store romance section.

I suppose that what I am writing is a romance, just with lots of crime and cocaine thrown in.

Now I am wondering, what is the difference between romance and erotica, other than the level of explicitness?

 

[MelissaBaby]

Yes, that's powerful.

I received a comment from a woman who'd had a double mastectomy after breast cancer, who thanked me for writing a story about a woman with paraplegia - she said it gave her affirmation that love and sensuality can still survive great physical suffering. That was very humbling, that someone who's suffered more than I can ever imagine, thanks me.

Words are powerful indeed. I often think those that can use them effectively almost have a duty to do so. Erotica with a social conscience, perhaps.

The real punishment of imprisonment is not the loss of personal freedom or the limitations of confinement, it is the depersonalization. You are no longer an individual, recognized for your personality, your assets or your flaws. You are a number, a unit, indistinguishable from all the others.

Everyone wants to be seen, to be heard, to be recognized. To see themselves, their hopes and desires and fears represented in words or art or a film, helps them feel that they matter, that someone knows they are here and that they are uniquely themselves.

You deserved her thanks, as she deserved your thoughtfulness.

 

[RetroFan]

Sometimes, you just don't know what is going to turn readers on in a story.

For example, I wrote a lesbian story called 'The PTA Queen Bee & The Teen Rebel' which contains a non-erotic character called Todd. Todd is a lazy, gluttonous, fat (300 pounds), stupid 18-year-old bully who among other many other antics bullies mentally retarded children, proves incapable of learning how to drive and foolishly mocks his temperamental twin sister (a petite slip of a girl) for having her period, something that earns him a punch in the face.

Todd is there as an object of ridicule and for readers to laugh at, but for all I know a gay male couple with a fetish for obese young men may have read the story, found Todd the most erotic literary character they have ever read about and immediately opened up Word and commenced writing their own story about how a gay couple have a threesome with an obese 18-year-old boy. It's probably not likely, but entirely possible.

 

[latecomer91364]

I suppose that what I am writing is a romance, just with lots of crime and cocaine thrown in.

Now I am wondering, what is the difference between romance and erotica, other than the level of explicitness?

Probably one of the best, simplest descriptions comes from Jane Litte in a Publisher's Weekly article, where she describes Erotica as: "...when sex is the basis of the conflict."

Sexuality is the underlying theme, often depicting how sex drives the characters' emotional journey. If you are working on a crime/prison story, then to fit more precisely into the world of erotica, the crime would merely drive the story to the prison, where the focus might be that the main character is not bisexual or lesbian, but recognizes that in jail, sex is currency, and her emotional dilemma might stem from how she personally deals with her feelings while trying to survive in this new, hostile environment, and how she rationalizes using her sexuality to her advantage.

I forget who said it, and am just paraphrasing, but a statement comes to mind:
"Everything is about sex, except sex." What I took from that is that the basic drive of humans is sex (procreating, finding a mate), but when specifically contemplating the act itself, prurient qualities take over and it becomes more about a series of sexual actions, not the universal urges of sexuality. I feel that with erotica, you balance both, but the underlying foundation is strongest when tied to the character's emotions, and the sexual acts themselves then need to be written with lascivious attention to detail, right down to a drop of sweat falling from a character's brow.

I hope that makes some kind of sense.

Love your Avatar.

 

[SimonDoom]

I suppose that what I am writing is a romance, just with lots of crime and cocaine thrown in.

Now I am wondering, what is the difference between romance and erotica, other than the level of explicitness?

I would agree with latecomer that the essence of erotica is that "sex" is the basis of the conflict, with the caveat that "sex" must be defined very broadly. A story about someone's foot fetish can be erotica even though it does not feature anything most of us would recognize as "sex." To many people, it may not be erotic at all, but if it has the purpose of arousing sexual feelings of some kind in at least some people it's erotica.

The line between romance and erotica probably is vague because different people need very different levels of sexual explicitness to get turned on. I imagine there are romance novel readers who get turned on by drawn-out accounts of meaningful stares and breasts heaving and passionate kisses and that sort of thing. For them, that sort of story may be sexually arousing, and therefore erotic; for others, it falls far short of the threshold needed to be erotic. It's in the eye of the beholder.