Geo-Blocking

[Desiremakesmeweak]

I can cite no direct evidence and I haven't checked anything on-line about it, but I have been hearing recently, from people I know and respect in the relevant field, that Google Search has been selectively 'geo-blocking' servers or server linkages in various countries around the world - for what reason or reasons I don't know - but this may be the cause for the fall-off in actual writers posting here as opposed to bots and content-farm people who are manufacturing the types of 'popular interest' postings...

And there is every possibility too that some of the 'stories' being uploaded are fake in the sense that they have been written by some kind of AI program and not a human author. Or a combination of human manipulator and AI fiction writing package.

There are a lot of complaints across the internet and reaching the ordinary media too, that also, numbers of viewers of websites, YouTube channels and so on, have recently been negatively affected by search algo changes.

This is of importance to anyone who accepts advertising revenue for their digital work because clearly, the implication is that Google or someone with the power to do it, is 'steering' ad revenue underhandedly.

 

[sr71plt]

this may be the cause for the fall-off in actual writers posting here as opposed .

"actual writers" posting where on this Web site?

Posting stories? Has it been established that fewer writers are posting stories to Literotica? I don't think it has.

Not been posting to the discussion board? That would be fairly easy to explain. Discussion boards like this live on posters chewing on each other. That's what attracts other posters. There hasn't been too much of that for a month or so. But even there, where's the evidence that there are fewer "actual writers" posting to the discussion board?

If the premise is supportable, we don't really need to consider anything beyond that.

 

[Blind_Justice]

Maybe the British government has put Lit on it's blacklist? They seem to be awfully keen on censorship, especially porn, at the moment.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I can cite no direct evidence and I haven't checked anything on-line about it, but I have been hearing recently, from people I know and respect in the relevant field, that Google Search has been selectively 'geo-blocking' servers or server linkages in various countries around the world - for what reason or reasons I don't know - but this may be the cause for the fall-off in actual writers posting here as opposed to bots and content-farm people who are manufacturing the types of 'popular interest' postings...

Google certainly does this. It blocks some extremist sites, especially on French and German versions of Google Search, because the laws of those countries require it; they will also sometimes block sites that attempt to manipulate their search rankings. They will also block some kinds of sites in response to DMCA requests, although when this happens they'll note the block and link to the takedown request (which will show what the suppressed site was). More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Google#Google_Search

I haven't heard of anything specifically affecting Literotica, and I agree with SR that the first step would be evidence that writers posting have fallen off.

 

[jaF0]

Stop using the Evil G. They are NOT your friend.

There are other search engines.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Maybe the British government has put Lit on it's blacklist? They seem to be awfully keen on censorship, especially porn, at the moment.

When I switch my VPN to use Google Search from the UK, and search on "erotica stories", Literotica is the first site in the search results. So, no, it isn't being hidden from UK search results, and since folk like HP and Naoko still post here I'm assuming it isn't part of the general UK ISP blocklist.

 

[TxRad]

Google does lower the ratings of sites that are not cell phone friendly. This is the reason for the sudden upgrades to Lit in general.

Also, this time of year usual shows a decrease in both stories and posters as school is starting and end of summer vacations cut into peoples time.

 

[jaF0]

Google does lower the ratings of sites that are not cell phone friendly.

Fuck mobile.

Fuck G.

There are other search engines.

 

[hylas_]

And there is every possibility too that some of the 'stories' being uploaded are fake in the sense that they have been written by some kind of AI program and not a human author. Or a combination of human manipulator and AI fiction writing package.

I'm interested in this part, can you elaborate?
Pretty sure AI can't write coherent stories yet, but I'm interested where you're coming from.

 

[oggbashan]

Sometimes I'm irritated by YouTube's statement "This video is not available in your country".

Usually I can get around that, but not always."

 

[HandsInTheDark]

I'm interested in this part, can you elaborate?
Pretty sure AI can't write coherent stories yet, but I'm interested where you're coming from.

This is one of my hobby areas. No, AIs can't tell stories yet, and it's going to be a long, long time before they can write convincing erotica. (Most humans can't.)

You can get an AI to comb through a database of facts and pick out ones relevant to a query - Google, Watson. You can get it to arrange them into a semblance of order, though writing a paragraph with them is still something AIs don't do well. But creativity is still beyond reach. They can shape noise like anyone's business and you can use that to generate a plot of sorts: people meeting, fucking, eating, dying. They can mimic dialog in the same way. But no one's come up with a network that's close to writing anything coherent for more than a couple sentences.

And trust me, when someone does, you'll know it. Google will develop or buy it and web searches will turn into coherent conversations. Siri will become an actual assistant instead of a cute box of tricks with vast gaping holes in the skill set. Conversant AI will be a huge deal, and it won't show up on Literotica first.

I've seen (and once wrote), an "AI" that fooled people into thinking they were people, on places like IRC channels. But that had a lot to do with the fact that people tend to be gullible and tended to move on quickly; it never works in a long conversation.

Once we get conversant AI, though, we'll have the foundation for storytelling - just have a few of them talk to each other or simulate actions with each other. If they have a model of human interaction that's good enough, the results will be plausible. But I expect they'll still be boring.

I'm imagining things like

"Jane, I wish to fondle you."
"No, Mark, I do not wish to be fondled."
"Then, Jane, I will go fondle Susan."
"I feel vague jealousy, Mark, but it does not overcome my repugnance at the idea of being fondled."
"Would you like to watch me fondle Susan, Jane?"
"No, and my repugnance has increased. Go fondle Susan, I am no longer interested in continuing this conversation."

I mean maybe there's an audience for that kind of thing here, but I can't imagine anyone putting up with 10 pages of it.

 

[jaF0]

I'm irritated by YouTube

Period. I don't go there. It's a G company and I won't support them.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Period. I don't go there. It's a G company and I won't support them.

Good for you, seriously. I don't have the determination yet.

I suppose the most notable factor at the moment is that their biases and occasionally heavy-handed censorship have all in the first place, come to light so openly and clearly. When the Borg was fully in charge and running everything 'smoothly,' they got away with murder literally and no one knew and they taxed you too so that they could go murder some more using your money.

Things are not quite working out that way anymore.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Sometimes I'm irritated by YouTube's statement "This video is not available in your country".

Usually I can get around that, but not always."

Tunnelbear is excellent for circumventing that.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

I'm interested in this part, can you elaborate?
Pretty sure AI can't write coherent stories yet, but I'm interested where you're coming from.

Hmn. 'Pretty sure, eh.?'

I'm not going to object when you qualify it with the word 'coherent.' I have recently been reading quite a lot of material - and I won't even say it's particularly stories here; but I don't find the things I've been wading through coherent!! However we have to face facts about what standards for coherence are being applied these days among people who cannot actually read or write in terms of complete adult literacy anymore. I don't begrudge expert software programmers and technicians the types of shorthand they speak and 'write,' but I do worry when the BBC starts talking gibberish - which they do nowadays to an alarming degree.

There's a lot of real incoherence in writing around these days.

...And I used to be paid to re-write scientific reports and academic essays so that they were readable in standard English! (There was this one guy once, he was a microbiologist originally from a Francophone country but that also used English as a main language there - my god, I have never seen anything like it before: he managed to push four different lines of syntax, into one complete 'sentence' none of which made sense in any way at all overall. I couldn't even split things and get one - not even one clear complete idea/thought form - from any single part... And in the end I could NOT undo the knot he had twisted and just left the whole thing alone and no one ever questioned the thing anyway... Which was another one in a long line of reasons why I am these days rather skeptical of so-called 'academia.')

Is there AI that can write stories...

Jesus I'm surprised there appear to be a few here who think not.

Are there programs which can write COHERENT stories?

Coherent is one thing, 'good,' is a completely different thing - and new and creative AND coherent and 'good,' well... I suppose if one listens to marketing hype and have been isolated from any great fiction in the ambit of one's experience, well then yeah.

Certainly people are going to tell us there is AI that can do all of these things.

 

[hylas_]

I think you're overestimating what present day AI is capable of. But if you come across a Lit story that is incoherent to the extent that you think it might have been written by an AI, I'd be genuinely interested!

I managed to find the article that I had to think of when I posted earlier (didn't have time to google at the time): https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...med-to-write-fables-moral-storytelling-system

Here's an example of an AI generated fable from the article; it's actually more coherent than I remembered. Still, a significant step down from even the most WTF-tastic submissions on Lit, I'd say:

Once upon a time there lived a dragon, a fairy and a princess. The dragon hated the fairy.
One summer's morning the dragon gave the treasure to the princess. As a result, the princess had the treasure. The princess felt joy that she had the treasure. The princess felt gratitude towards the dragon about giving the treasure to her because she had the treasure. The fairy and the princess started to love the dragon.
A short time later the princess killed the fairy. As a result, the fairy was dead. The dragon felt joy that the fairy was dead. The dragon felt gratitude towards the princess about killing the fairy because the fairy was dead.

 

[Handley_Page]

Sometimes I'm irritated by YouTube's statement "This video is not available in your country".

Usually I can get around that, but not always."

Same here, but I do not know how to get round it.

 

[hylas_]

And I just came across an article about an AI that generates romance novel titles. It's pretty hilarious: https://medium.com/towards-data-sci...rated-by-artificial-intelligence-1b31d9c872b2

 

[Hypoxia]

And I just came across an article about an AI that generates romance novel titles. It's pretty hilarious: https://medium.com/towards-data-sci...rated-by-artificial-intelligence-1b31d9c872b2

Titles are easy.
First lines are harder.
It's all downhill from there.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Same here, but I do not know how to get round it.

step 1: install the appropriate download from here https://www.tunnelbear.com/download
step 2: launch Tunnelbear
step 3: while browsing, use the TB menu to select what country you want to "tunnel" to. When you then view a website, your request will appear to be coming from that country.

For instance, if I wanted to watch Colbert (which is blocked to Australian IPs) I'd set Tunnelbear to tunnel via USA. My connection is then routed via a US server, so as far as anybody else knows I'm accessing from USA.

The basic service is free but limits how much you can use each month; I pay a subscription, though mostly to support the product. As well as bypassing geoblocking, it also provides improved privacy against anybody who might be snooping.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

That's gold, Bramblethorn. Thanks.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

And I just came across an article about an AI that generates romance novel titles. It's pretty hilarious: https://medium.com/towards-data-sci...rated-by-artificial-intelligence-1b31d9c872b2

This isn't AI - but it is interesting:

http://www.plot-generator.org.uk/create.php?type=5

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Is there AI that can write stories...

I'm surprised there appear to be a few here who think not.

Yes, and we seem to be the ones with background in the field. I do software algorithms all day long and into the night. Some have involved models of human interaction. I'm not an AI researcher but I stay plugged into the field. And I've seen what's been presented in terms of natural language recognition, let alone generation.

Here's a simple test. Can you have a conversation with a computer? For how long? Can it do anything other than answer questions? How often does it actually know what you're asking? Go ahead and pull out your phone. Siri's back end is a huge cloud computer, designed to handle EXACTLY this. Does she really sound creative to you?

No. So if a computer can't have a conversation with you, how it it going to write dialog? Short answer - it won't.

The problem is doing things in parallel. Everything your brain hears and sees sets off a cascade of neural events, operating in parallel and modifying each other. It's unbelievable, how much goes on in a few pounds of brain matter, and the vast majority of it you're completely unaware of. Feelings, things that suddenly occur to you in conversation.. this is stuff that are the outcomes of so many simultaneous interactions that we literally still have no clue how it all fits together.

There are about 100 billion neurons in an adult human brain. We have yet to completely model the operation of a single neuron - they are little chemical analog computers - and when we try we're using computers with billions of transistors. You can do the math - even if you could build something complex enough to model it all, you couldn't afford to power it. Quantum processing may help - but we have no idea how to build large quantum systems.

This is why people talking about AI are slowly switching over to the idea of artificially grown brains. I don't know enough about biology to know how feasible that is. I mean you and a friend can build a functional brain in a few months with things you probably have around the bedroom, but I'm reliably told getting it to do what you want is hard, and it's 20+ years before you get meaningful conversations from it. Building one that does something useful whenever you want it to? It's not clear that's ever going to be possible. If it's complex enough to think, it's complex enough to be recalcitrant. ("I dowanna write a story.") And don't get me started on the ethical issues.

tl;dr : AI will be great. It will drive a car, look things up for you, help you manage your health and lifestyle choices. It will do search and rescue, do the heavy lifting in wars and even find dates for you with almost as much success as your friends do. Creativity? Not so much. Ultimately, the ability to create true intelligence is the ability to play God. Our species hasn't consistently managed to learn to play Human yet. Half of the crap we get up to makes no sense. A lot of humans are incapable of anything like useful creativity. We can't get a computer to do 100 billionth of what a low grade moron's brain does routinely - and you want one that outperforms average people? Don't hold your breath. We have no applicable technology for it.

And I'll whisper this once. To write about sex, it helps to have sexual experience. AIs with sexual experience? Think about it for a bit. Do you really want to go there?

 

[Bramblethorn]

And I'll whisper this once. To write about sex, it helps to have sexual experience. AIs with sexual experience? Think about it for a bit. Do you really want to go there?

Well, we have a huge corpus to train them on. Just feed them the entirety of RedTube and -

...on second thoughts, maybe let's not do that.

 

[jsmiam]

This is a true story, and thousands of articles have been published to scientific journals of the lower rung variety. The loftier ones, there's too much human interaction in the publishing process though.

http://news.mit.edu/2015/how-three-mit-students-fooled-scientific-journals-0414