My thoughts on the VA demonstration.

[Ishmael]

I stopped reading when you used the term demonstration as opposed to riot in the thread title.

Kinda like throwing a book away that starts, "It was the best of times and the worst of times."

Ishmael

 

[sigh]

His response, at least verbally, is almost verbatim the response Obama gave re. the Ferguson debacle. I'm waiting to see what the DOJ response is. Oh mother of my unborn child, the government is like a train at full speed on a main line, expecting it to switch tracks in a matter of hours is unrealistic. This is going to be a process, not a 'knee jerk' reaction.

My hopes are the same as I've already stated;



If he doesn't call for the full weight of the DOJ to come down on these clowns, then I'll be right there among you calling for him to do so. But at the same time I want to see that weight come down on the other side as well.

When the application of the law wafts to and fro with the ever changing winds of politics then there is no law and there is no justice. At that point in time we become just another 'Banana Republic' with violent revolution every generation or so.

Now, why did I use Obama's name in this? Most of the posters here are of short memory and generally ignorant of history. Obama is merely the most recent. The list of administrations to fiddle with the blindfold of justice is long. Goes all the way back to Jefferson and most certainly Jackson, Jackson being the most blatant of the early presidents. It's been going on so long now it's like a tradition and it irritates the shit out of me.

It either ends or it will lead to a second civil war, the model is in place just as it was in the run up to the first civil war. Ironically the reasons are almost identical.

Ishmael

So if Trump's response was exactly the same as Obama's, and you say that Obama did it wrong, then....

As I said, there is no balance. The pendulum may have swung but it's hardly in the middle.

 

[Disgustipated]

Kinda like throwing a book away that starts, "It was the best of times and the worst of times."

Ishmael

You author moronic race-baiting threads on a pR0n board, Ishtard - you don't write great novels.

 

[Saint Peter]

That's like saying Petey ain't gay but his boyfriends are.

Most of them.

 

[Ishmael]

So if Trump's response was exactly the same as Obama's, and you say that Obama did it wrong, then....

As I said, there is no balance. The pendulum may have swung but it's hardly in the middle.

Every event like this affords the opportunity to so so. Will Trump take the opportunity?

Ishmael

 

[Fala]

Kinda like throwing a book away that starts, "It was the best of times and the worst of times."

Ishmael

"Some books should not be tossed aside lightly....they should be thrown with great force".

...my hero......"Dorothy Parker".

 

[Ishmael]

"Some books should not be tossed aside lightly....they should be thrown with great force".

...my hero......"Dorothy Parker".

Fine, but responding to a thread you haven't read is, well, stupid.

Further, a riot is a one sided affair like what took place in Ferguson. This was a violent confrontation between two opposing groups.

To call this a riot you have to have some facts that the demonstrators began shooting, looting, arson, and committing vandalism while the counter demonstrators did everything they could to maintain order. Neither is the truth in this case.

Ishmael

 

[Fala]

Fine, but responding to a thread you haven't read is, well, stupid.

Further, a riot is a one sided affair like what took place in Ferguson. This was a violent confrontation between two opposing groups.

To call this a riot you have to have some facts that the demonstrators began shooting, looting, arson, and committing vandalism while the counter demonstrators did everything they could to maintain order. Neither is the truth in this case.

Ishmael

"Some posts should not be tossed aside lightly....they should be thrown with great force".

I made one simple post, doofus. I never mentioned a riot. Wtf are you yammering on about at me?

 

[Ishmael]

"Some posts should not be tossed aside lightly....they should be thrown with great force".

I made one simple post, doofus. I never mentioned a riot. Wtf are you yammering on about at me?

Yes, a blindly stupid one at that. And now persist in compounding your error.

Ishmael

 

[colddiesel]

What were the responsibilities of the local and VA authorities?
Did they meet or fail them?
Is it a Federal responsibility at all?

Just askin'?

 

[Fala]

Yes, a blindly stupid one at that. And now persist in compounding your error.

Ishmael

Hahaha....you've pulled this shit on me before, Ish.

You made a colossal mistake, yet cannot man-up and admit it.


It's ok. I'm gracious enough to just let it go and step out of your thread,

 

[RobDownSouth]

Fine, but responding to a thread you haven't read is, well, stupid.

Further, a riot is a one sided affair like what took place in Ferguson. This was a violent confrontation between two opposing groups.

To call this a riot you have to have some facts that the demonstrators began shooting, looting, arson, and committing vandalism while the counter demonstrators did everything they could to maintain order. Neither is the truth in this case.

Ishmael

A riot is a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd. Period. There are no requirements for a riot to have a single faction, or for shooting, looting, arson and/or vandalism to occur, your insistence to the contrary notwithstanding.

Charlottesville Virginia met the textbook definition of a riot, no matter how much you try to spin this fact otherwise.

 

[Boxlicker101]

A riot is a violent disturbance of the peace by a crowd. Period. There are no requirements for a riot to have a single faction, or for shooting, looting, arson and/or vandalism to occur, your insistence to the contrary notwithstanding.

Charlottesville Virginia met the textbook definition of a riot, no matter how much you try to spin this fact otherwise.

I would think you would need some "shooting, looting, arson and/or vandalism" to constitute a riot. Otherwise, it's just a demonstration. I believe in this instance the KKK and others were conducting a demonstration when another group came to disrupt them. That's when it became a riot, culminating in a member sympathetic to the first group driving a car into the second group. I have no sympathy for any of the people involved, except those who were killed or injured, and just barely for them.

 

[Libsam]

UTR got all their permits to hold a rally.
5 days ago the city pulled the permits.
ACLU attorneys filed a lawsuit on behalf of the UTR organizers.
The courts ruled in favor of free speech.
At the rally the police blocked the speakers from speaking.
Riots broke out.

Another piece of the puzzle. The city permitted 2 antifa rallies on the same day of and next to the UTR rally. Their permits were never pulled.

I bet the antifa groups started shit with police before the UTR rally and then the police treated all the people as threats.
Or.
The police were taking orders from the democratic mayor.

 

[RobDownSouth]

I would think you would need some "shooting, looting, arson and/or vandalism" to constitute a riot. Otherwise, it's just a demonstration.

My definition specifically included "violence" as a necessary component of a riot. The fact that you want to further restrict the definition to fit your preconceived political bias is irrelevant.

 

[sr71plt]

UTR got all their permits to hold a rally.
5 days ago the city pulled the permits.
ACLU attorneys filed a lawsuit on behalf of the UTR organizers.
The courts ruled in favor of free speech.
At the rally the police blocked the speakers from speaking.
Riots broke out.

Wrong on a couple of levels. The city didn't pull the permit; it switched the venue because the protest organizations lied about how many they expected there. The permission was switched to a bigger city park because of the bigger crowd expected. The permit wasn't pulled.

The rally was shut down before it started because they illegally gathered and paraded the night before at a time and in a location where they had no permission to gather, not when/where they requested to rally--and they came armed and armored in breach of the terms of the permit.

 

[sr71plt]

What were the responsibilities of the local and VA authorities?
Did they meet or fail them?
Is it a Federal responsibility at all?

Just askin'?

They (local, Virginia state, national guard) showed up short of strength at the beginning and didn't intervene for a heck of a long time. (I live there.)

They actually should have dropped on the alt-right protesters' heads the night before when they rallied and marched illegally through the University of Virginia grounds (and nearly past my house). They could have thinned them out then.

 

[sr71plt]

Another piece of the puzzle. The city permitted 2 antifa rallies on the same day of and next to the UTR rally. Their permits were never pulled.

Cite your source, please. I think you don't know the parameters of what is an antifa organization.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Cite your source, please. I think you don't know the parameters of what is an antifa organization.

This doesn't seem like a very even-minded site, but here: http://www.nbc29.com/clip/13587997/...-for-counterprotests-of-unite-the-right-rally

 

[sr71plt]

This doesn't seem like a very even-minded site, but here: http://www.nbc29.com/clip/13587997/...-for-counterprotests-of-unite-the-right-rally

I don't know what you mean by not a "very even-minded site." The source is the Charlottesville NBC station. I suppose a radical rightist considers mainline NBC stations as not even-minded (meaning not radical right. ). Despite the headline, it cites only one permit and it's not for a group that's anything like an "antifa" organization.

I earlier took care of the false claim that the alt-right permit was pulled. There was an attempt to change to a larger venue requiring fewer downtown streets to be closed, but at no time was the permit pulled.

 

[SissySalina]

Please remember that a news outfit, anyone of them, first job is to sell. If they print the whole, correct truth they would not get people to listen to them its called "sensualism".
No matter if you think they are right or wrong, they have the same right to free speech.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I don't know what you mean by not a "very even-minded site." The source is the Charlottesville NBC station. I suppose a radical rightist considers mainline NBC stations as not even-minded (meaning not radical right. ). Despite the headline, it cites only one permit and it's not for a group that's anything like an "antifa" organization.

I earlier took care of the false claim that the alt-right permit was pulled. There was an attempt to change to a larger venue requiring fewer downtown streets to be closed, but at no time was the permit pulled.

I consider it to be not very even-handed because they seem to consider the counter-protestors to be all sweetness and light. Did you see the photo and caption directly under the headline? That headline says there were two permits issued to the counter-demonstrators, and I saw nothing to the contrary. The rally was to start at noon at one place, but the city changed that to somewhere else and, at 11:30, declared the rally to be an unlawful assembly and canceled the permit. That happened after the counter-demonstrators showed up and instigated the violence. Until then, things were peaceful.

Unless I'm mistaken, "antifa" stands for anti-fascist, and that is certainly what the counter-demonstrators, there in opposition to the KKK and others of that ilk, would call themselves. Do you have a different definition of antifa?

I have no use for the KKK and similar groups, but I consider their opposition to be as bad. A pox on all their houses, I say.

 

[Phelia]

Ishmael is a moronic racist who has not introduced an interesting or original thought in tens of thousands of posts. He is regularly factually inaccurate and refuses to admit when he's proven wrong. There really is no point in responding to him. Can we just agree to collectively ignore him until he dies? The place will be nicer for it.

 

[sr71plt]

The rally was to start at noon at one place, but the city changed that to somewhere else and, at 11:30, declared the rally to be an unlawful assembly and canceled the permit. That happened after the counter-demonstrators showed up and instigated the violence. Until then, things were peaceful.

Well, no, that's not how any of it went down. I live here, so I'm pretty clear on the progression. But I'm not surprised you describe it that way. You're not known to have touch with reality.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Well, no, that's not how any of it went down. I live here, so I'm pretty clear on the progression. But I'm not surprised you describe it that way. You're not known to have touch with reality.

I have no first-hand knowledge of the riot, but I am able to read news accounts.