You're not imagining it: the rich really are hoarding economic growth

[4est_4est_Gump]

"Every time the top 1 (or .01) percent get a bigger slice of the pie, that's less pie for people like you."

Dick's economic fallacy of the day. Assumes the .01%, or the 1% do not grow the pie, or to keep the analogy pure, bake another pie, or a cupcake, or a...,





TWINKIE!!!

 

[EternalFantasies]

Since we all love graphs (especially AJ & trysail):

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/9f/75/13/9f7513a3ec5f2aeb98097547ed16cac3--wealth-charts.jpg

Yes, ok, but that means nothing still. This is a misleading indicator in this context.

You need to examine each market and check the various forces that lead to that particular state of being. Ex. Social mobility in the Nordics and Brazil are not caused by opposite things in how regulations are drawn, a more socialistic or capitalist market etc. Brazil's case is due to corruption mainly. etc.

You must look at each market independently, and you will find the cause for social mobility in score in the US and how to make it more fluid to be unique to the US.

Otherwise, you seem to suggest that more socialist = higher social mobility. If that means one can go from making 35K to 70K.

You can both keep it, and/or shove it up your ass; as pleasurable as that is to you anyway.

If the middle class is a historic anomaly, what can we infer about the upper class, and the likelihood of the lower socioeconomic strata realizing it?

You are trying to infer the wrong things.

What mainly needs to be inferred is that the middle class being the number one in population is relatively new, and may be temporary, may be not, we still do not know for sure. But, we can certainly infer that it has been an ingenious way of giving access to as much people as possible, to today's fruits and gifts of mankind's realizations.

Not so bad. Just how to move forward with less poverty, and more access is the real question here.

But if any of you bozos expect everyone to be billionaires; then you live in unrealistic dreams.

There is no perfect system, there's taking the best shot at it; all while tackling human nature.

 

[Nipples_Mcgee1]

"Every time the top 1 (or .01) percent get a bigger slice of the pie, that's less pie for people like you."

Dick's economic fallacy of the day. Assumes the .01%, or the 1% do not grow the pie, or to keep the analogy pure, bake another pie, or a cupcake, or a...,





TWINKIE!!!

Higher income inequality slows economic growth, dipshit.

I guess we've answered my earlier question. No. No, you really don't care about true facts.

 

[EternalFantasies]

Damn all those oppressive socialist states on the left hand side of the graph!

How can that be!

Woof!

Exactly. It can't be. It's quite relative. A misleading indicator.

 

[richard_daily]

"Every time the top 1 (or .01) percent get a bigger slice of the pie, that's less pie for people like you."

Dick's economic fallacy of the day. Assumes the .01%, or the 1% do not grow the pie, or to keep the analogy pure, bake another pie, or a cupcake, or a...,





TWINKIE!!!

If GDP grows, they take a larger and larger share.

That's what wealth inequality is.

I'm sure you understand that, right?

Right?



Oh wait... maybe not.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Meaningless chart based upon subjective valuations...


Oh we love our charts and graphs.


Social Mobility?

 

[richard_daily]

Meaningless chart based upon subjective valuations...


Oh we love our charts and graphs.


Social Mobility?

Are you rich AJ?

Do you believe that you'll ever become rich?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Is Social Mobility that phenomenon of Muslim immigrants assimilating into and adopting the culture of their new homelands?

 

[EternalFantasies]

If GDP grows, they take a larger and larger share.

That's what wealth inequality is.

I'm sure you understand that, right?

Right?



Oh wait... maybe not.

Again, a dumb-ass observation.

 

[EternalFantasies]

Is Social Mobility that phenomenon of Muslim immigrants assimilating into and adopting the culture of their new homelands?

No it's moving from one income level to another.

 

[BotanyBoy]

So you think that opportunities should be available to everyone, and not just a select few?

Exactly.

Where are these government owned and run farms or factories?

Who said anything about communism?

As far as being run by the government all farms and factories are government run, or they are black market.

If you think otherwise try opening one on your own and see what happens.

I don't have any interest in drugs of any sort. I think they're a detriment on society. However, I believe that people should be free to make their own choices and put whatever they want into their body. They simply need to accept the consequences for those actions.

http://i.imgur.com/3Vv2G6v.png?fb

The point is that YOU can't access one of the largest money makers out there.

Not legally, that's for the elites only.

It's the system we currently live in.

It doesn't work for most people.

BAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA the fuck it is...you need to go look up the definition of capitalism.

You've never voted for a republican in a local election?

Sure....how was that against my interest?

I'm fairly certain that this current administration has plans to throw people like you in jail.

So the fuck what? That's bidnizz as usual man.

I dare you to name an administration that hasn't......

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

That would be economic mobility.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Again, a dumb-ass observation.

A rising tide lifts only the yachts...

 

[Nipples_Mcgee1]

Meaningless chart based upon subjective valuations...


Oh we love our charts and graphs.


Social Mobility?

If you can't even define the concept of social mobility for yourself, what business do you have participating in an economics discussion?

 

[Nipples_Mcgee1]

Are you rich AJ?

Do you believe that you'll ever become rich?

Pardon AJ. He's just come off another hard night's work at the warehouse, and he has a busy domestic schedule to keep to, what with denigrating his wife and daughter.

 

[richard_daily]

If you can't even define the concept of social mobility for yourself, what business do you have participating in an economics discussion?

He's on a fixed income, but he has lots of free time.

 

[richard_daily]

Exactly.

That's good to hear. I think we disagree on the methodology considerably, but at least the intent is the same.

Who said anything about communism?

As far as being run by the government all farms and factories are government run, or they are black market.

If you think otherwise try opening one on your own and see what happens.

What farms or factories are the government RUNNING?

I haven't seen a single one. Regulation doesn't count... because the operation isn't being done by the government. You're going to have to try harder if that's the course your argument is trying to take.

The point is that YOU can't access one of the largest money makers out there.

Not legally, that's for the elites only.

I do fine for myself, regulations and all. I take more umbrage with in my local government than anything the feds or state are doing.

I don't need to make much more than I already do, and I'm no where near the .1%. Neither is anyone on this board, including you.

BAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA the fuck it is...you need to go look up the definition of capitalism.

here it is, and it's what we've got.

An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

Sure....how was that against my interest?

I've already laid it out.

Sessions is going to try to throw you in jail. Lynch did not.

So the fuck what? That's bidnizz as usual man.

I dare you to name an administration that hasn't......

Carter and Obama to name two. A republican started the war on drugs, another republican ramped it up, and this current republican wants to continue with failed policy.

 

[BotanyBoy]

That's good to hear. I think we disagree on the methodology considerably, but at least the intent is the same.

Because I'm not conflating equity with equal opportunity, something leftist LOVE to do.

What farms or factories are the government RUNNING?

Every legal one out there.

I haven't seen a single one. Regulation doesn't count... because the operation isn't being done by the government. You're going to have to try harder if that's the course your argument is trying to take.

Just because it's not "Department of Corn Production" and all farms belong to the government Communist style, doesn't make effective regulatory control not socialism.

If you're arguing it's all free market capitalism up until the point that it's soviet style communism, I think it is you who will have to try harder.

I don't need to make much more than I already do, and I'm no where near the .1%. Neither is anyone on this board, including you.

That's fine, I still want a winter home in Fiji and my own decommissioned F-14 Tomcat.

So I'm going to try and get every fuckin' dollar I can for as long as I can. I find the people trying to stop me from doing so detestable and un-American as it gets.

here it is, and it's what we've got.

IF, we had a free market.....but we don't, so no it's not.

What we have is a corporatocracy/corporate oligarchy....a twisted branch off the socialist stump.

I've already laid it out.

No you didn't, my Republican council rep just handed me the keys to making good ass money!

How the is that against my self interest??

Sessions is going to try to throw you in jail. Lynch did not.

Yes Lynch did, LOL

She fucking HATES independent farmers and LOVES Monsanto.

She thinks Monsanto should be able to fuck me out of everything I own just because they are Monsanto.

So did Obama.

Carter and Obama to name two.

Yet neither of them did anything to stop it though they could have at any time and Obama ran more raids against MMJ in his first 4 years than Bush did in all his 8.

Sorry, man....(D)'s just ain't as progressive as they like to talk out their ass about being.

They want to legalize weed!!! But only for them and their elite buddies.....LOL

They behave just like (R)'s, they just have a different sales pitch.

 

[water505]

Hey Rich, why is it that liberals and conservatives both think you're dumb?

Maybe because you say stupid shit and can't answer a yes or no question. It's tough, isn't it?

 

[RobDownSouth]

Is Social Mobility that phenomenon of Muslim immigrants assimilating into and adopting the culture of their new homelands?

Yes, yes, Muslim immigrants scare you.....we get it.

 

[richard_daily]

Because I'm not conflating equity with equal opportunity, something leftist LOVE to do.

So how do you see equity and equal opportunity as different?

I do think you're conflating equal opportunity with equal outcome... but we shall see.

Just because it's not "Department of Corn Production" and all farms belong to the government Communist style, doesn't make effective regulatory control not socialism.

If you're arguing it's all free market capitalism up until the point that it's soviet style communism, I think it is you who will have to try harder.

"Too big to fail" banks, and bailouts for the big three were the last examples of socialism on any wide-spread scale in the last 10 years in this country,and both were brought on by a Republican administration. I disagreed with them at the time, and I disagree with them now.

That's fine, I still want a winter home in Fiji and my own decommissioned F-14 Tomcat.

So I'm going to try and get every fuckin' dollar I can for as long as I can. I find the people trying to stop me from doing so detestable and un-American as it gets.

Do you think that's going to make you happy? I mean honestly happy?

You seem like a fairly miserable guy. I know this might shock you, but you're one of the posters on here that I like, but you definitely don't seem happy, and I don't think that more money is going to make you happier.

I have enough money to be happy right now. I bet you do too. The rest is what you do with the rest of your time.

An F-14 probably isn't going to do bring you real joy, anymore than a couple of STG 44s will for me... not that I don't think it wouldn't be cool, but I really don't need it. Maybe a VZ61 though... a real one.

IF, we had a free market.....but we don't, so no it's not.

What we have is a corporatocracy/corporate oligarchy....a twisted branch off the socialist stump.

Corporate control over business IS capitalism. That's the definition of capitalism. You're seeing the correct problem... You're just failing to follow through with it and realize that it's the system that is wrong.

No you didn't, my Republican council rep just handed me the keys to making good ass money!

How the is that against my self interest??

So the Republicans in your area support your grow operation? What are they doing federally to help you out?

Yes Lynch did, LOL

She fucking HATES independent farmers and LOVES Monsanto.

She thinks Monsanto should be able to fuck me out of everything I own just because they are Monsanto.

So did Obama.

Supporting (or being lobbied by)Monsanto isn't the same thing as not prosecuting weed farmers.

Obama did a lot of fucked up things... FISA, FTAA support, relentless wiretaps, and drone strikes against american citizens, and sweeping ICE raids. Those are all fucked up things.

But he was quietly working to decriminalize, and also to work to find other ways to solve problems of poverty other than mass incarceration, which just leads to more poverty, and more crime.

Yet neither of them did anything to stop it though they could have at any time and Obama ran more raids against MMJ in his first 4 years than Bush did in all his 8.

Sorry, man....(D)'s just ain't as progressive as they like to talk out their ass about being.

They want to legalize weed!!! But only for them and their elite buddies.....LOL

They behave just like (R)'s, they just have a different sales pitch.

I never said Ds were progressive. They aren't. That's why they're not my party.

I was a Sanders guy, and I think he's got it right for the most part. A little less gun friendly than I'd like, but I think his heart is in the right place, and he wanted to work for the American people, rather than the other way around, like with Trump and Clinton.

If you don't think we would have seen 0 federal prosecutions for weed growers under a Sanders presidency, I think you're 100% wrong there. I realize there's no way to quantify that hypothosis, but I think the intent of the man was pretty damn clear. It's a shame that Trump pulled the wool over so many eyes, as did Clinton. I think we had a real chance to make america great again...

It's definitely gone now though. Maybe next time.

 

[BotanyBoy]

So how do you see equity and equal opportunity as different?

I do think you're conflating equal opportunity with equal outcome... but we shall see.

No that's the left.

Equal opportunity is just the chance to try.

Equity says take some from the winners and give to the loosers because their opportunity didn't work out so well for them.

"Too big to fail" banks, and bailouts for the big three were the last examples of socialism on any wide-spread scale in the last 10 years in this country,and both were brought on by a Republican administration. I disagreed with them at the time, and I disagree with them now.

That's great, I'm with you on that.

That' doesn't make the thousands and thousands of pages of regulations micromanaging industries and controlling market access not socialism.

Do you think that's going to make you happy? I mean honestly happy?

You seem like a fairly miserable guy. I know this might shock you, but you're one of the posters on here that I like, but you definitely don't seem happy, and I don't think that more money is going to make you happier.

You mistake contentedness with the reality of the world with misery.

No shock, we've always had a decent posting relationship and I enjoy it.

More money isn't going to make me happier, but I'll have more fun with my short existence. I live comfortably in one of the most beautiful places on Earth and I get to do what I love doing, that's as good as it gets. Everything else is just cheap thrills.

I have enough money to be happy right now. I bet you do too. The rest is what you do with the rest of your time. An F-14 probably isn't going to do bring you real joy, anymore than a couple of STG 44s will for me... not that I don't think it wouldn't be cool, but I really don't need it. Maybe a VZ61 though... a real one.

It won't make me happier but it would make my short little existence more fun.

It would be a sweet way to blow a fortune that you can't take with you anyhow.
https://media4.giphy.com/media/mKR1GlN4lDtpC/200.gif

I'll prob get a more reasonable toy, but damn it I'm going to try for a sweet ass warbird.

Corporate control over business IS capitalism. That's the definition of capitalism.

We aren't talking about corporate control over business though are we?

We are talking about corporate control over the GOVERNMENT, a totally different animal and not at all capitalism.

So the Republicans in your area support your grow operation?

Nobody is in support of my growing anything.....bunch of fucking communist shit birds ran me out of the industry. That's for elite (D)'s only!

The Republican however DID support me 'mining the miners' as it were, but an aggie version.

I got myself a licence to compost green waste (yard scraps/wood chips), manure and food waste.

I can't mine but I can sell aggregates out of the same yard, so I do because duh.

What are they doing federally to help you out?

Nobody is doing anything federally to help me out, they are all a bunch of used car salesmen out to fuck me.

 

[cfuhrer]

Is that ALL you have to add Angel?

Ishmael

I have a lot more I could say but no one would listen.

 

[Nipples_Mcgee1]

Yes, ok, but that means nothing still. This is a misleading indicator in this context.

[snip extraneous shit]

You can both keep it, and/or shove it up your ass; as pleasurable as that is to you anyway.

Yes, social and socioeconomic mobility is context-dependent. Do you really want to go with the line that because some measurement is context dependent, a metric for it cannot be made objective? Or that the authors of a study have not accounted for that context dependence, without good evidence? Feel free to take my disdain, turn it sideways, and shove it up your ass.

 

[Bad_Doggie]

I'm using the standard definition of the term. What definition are you using?

Government control over the means of production, distribution and exchange of goods and services is socialism, not capitalism.

That’s NOT the standard definition of what Socialism actual is. It's far too loose and could be applied to just about any and all economic systems.

Socialism: an economic theory or system in which the means of production, distribution, and exchange are owned by the community collectively, usually through the state (but not necessarily). It is characterized by production for use rather than profit, by equality of individual wealth, by the absence of competitive economic activity, and, usually, by government determination of investment, prices, and production levels.

The simple test is who owns heavy smoke stack industries (coal, seal etc) and farming and who benefits from the profits.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

Exactly.

Who said anything about communism?

As far as being run by the government all farms and factories are government run, or they are black market.

You seem equally confused about what Communism is too.

Socialism and Capitalism are economic systems whilst Communism and democracy are governmental system.

You can have capitalism under communism (China, Vietnam) and socialism under democracy (Sweden, Denmark).

In Marxist theory a Communist government is the inevitable conclusion to Socialism……it’s NOT a higher level of Socialism.

Your government does not own the means of production, therefore is not a socialist government……what you have is some form of corrupt Capitalism which is often heavily slanted in favour of the banks and wealthy, which stymies’ free market Capitalism. Ergo the regulation you’re railing against.

Woof!