Russia Russia OMG Russia

[AlwaysHungry]

This is a terrific article.

 

[DrDelirium]

Thanks for introducing me to Caitlin Johnson.

 

[Hypoxia]

Those who believe Putin wants to Make America Great Again can be sold anything.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Thanks for introducing me to Caitlin Johnson.

Yes, she is one bad mo/hush yo' mouf. You can follow her on Facebook -- she comes out with one of these masterpieces daily. And she has stirred up a real hornet's nest, where the corporate media have begun to denounce her for interfering with the narrative.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

--The fact that she sticks to the party line of "you don't have any proof" on the one hand, and then evokes pure blathery right wing innuendo about Hillary Clinton's supposed "ties" to Russia as if it's established fact on the other, shows she's full of shit.

--Apparently none of the people she talks to has pointed out the simple fact that they LIE all the time about it. No, that's proof of nothing, but it's enough to make any reasonable person wonder

--The fact that she, like Trump, pooh poohs the entire American Intelligence community shows she's a fool

--She also completely dismisses the significance of the Special Counsel. Any reasonable person, and not a self-inflated shill, is entirely justified in saying, "I'll wait and see what the Special Counsel" says. No, we don't know what that will turn up, or what it has turned up. We know nothing. That leaves BOTH sides in limbo--hers and the people convinced otherwise. I'd put more trust in both the Intel and the Special Counsel than I would a blogger

--She thinks she's some sort of renegade, but she's spewing nothing but pure Fox News talking points in her response to Don Jr.'s little meeting. She's uninformed about that, and blatantly overlooks the fact that they HID it while going out and screaming they've "NEVER MET WITH ANY RUSSIANS".

She's just as bad as the people she's criticizing.

This is a terrific article.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

--The fact that she sticks to the party line of "you don't have any proof" on the one hand, and then evokes pure blathery right wing innuendo about Hillary Clinton's supposed "ties" to Russia as if it's established fact on the other, shows she's full of shit.

She never mentions Hillary once. Did you read the right article?

--Apparently none of the people she talks to has pointed out the simple fact that they LIE all the time about it. No, that's proof of nothing, but it's enough to make any reasonable person wonder

I'm not sure whom you mean by "they" here.

--The fact that she, like Trump, pooh poohs the entire American Intelligence community shows she's a fool

How old are you, anyway? The CIA, NSA and FBI have earned quite a reputation for themselves for those whose historical memory goes back further than the last ten minutes. God bless Edward Snowden. As for the other 14 branches of the US intelligence community, they never signed on to the pissgate dossier from MI-6, and assorted corporate media have now made shamefaced corrections to their claim.

--She also completely dismisses the significance of the Special Counsel. Any reasonable person, and not a self-inflated shill, is entirely justified in saying, "I'll wait and see what the Special Counsel" says. No, we don't know what that will turn up, or what it has turned up. We know nothing. That leaves BOTH sides in limbo--hers and the people convinced otherwise. I'd put more trust in both the Intel and the Special Counsel than I would a blogger

I actually know a lot about Robert Mueller. He was instrumental in the frame-up of Lyndon LaRouche, which Ramsey Clark called "a broader range of deliberate and systematic misconduct and abuse of power over a longer period of time in an effort to destroy a political movement and leader, than any other federal prosecution in my time or to my knowledge." Like J Edgar Hoover, who spent years trying to destroy Martin Luther King, Mueller regards the FBI as a sort of political secret police. Incidentally, I should mention that I think that Trump is an obnoxious bozo. You don't have to like Trump to think that World War III with Russia is a bad idea.

 

[ChloeTzang]

This is a terrific article.

Thx, I'd never heard of her before but she's good

 

[LincolnDuncan]

Alden Bullwinkle

"I don’t know – it’s hard for me to see any trump ties to Russia…except for the Flynn thing and the Manafort thing
and the Tillerson thing
and the Sessions thing
and the Kushner thing
and the Carter Page thing
and the Ivanka hanging with the oligarchs thing
and the Roger Stone thing
and the Felix Sater thing
and the Boris Ephsteyn thing
and the Rosneft thing
and the Gazprom thing
and the Sergey Gorkov banker thing
and the Azerbajain thing
and the “I love Putin” thing
and the Donald Trump, Jr. thing
and the Sergey Kislyak thing
and the Russian Affiliated Interests thing
and the Russian Business Interests thing
and the Emoluments Clause thing
and the Alex Schnaider thing
and the hack of the DNC thing
and the Guccifer 2.0 thing
and the Mike Pence “I don’t know anything” thing
and the Russians mysteriously dying thing
and the Trump’s public request to Russia to hack Hillary’s email thing
and the Trump house sale for $100 million at the bottom of the housing bust to the Russian fertilizer king thing
and the Russian fertilizer king’s plane showing up in Concord, NC during Trump rally campaign thing
and the Nunes sudden flight to the White House in the night thing
and the Nunes personal investments in the Russian winery thing
and the Cyprus bank thing
and Trump not releasing his tax returns thing
and the Republican Party’s rejection of an amendment to require Trump to show his taxes thing
and the election hacking thing
and the GOP platform change to the Ukraine thing
and the Steele Dossier thing
and the Leninist Bannon thing
and the Sally Yates can’t testify thing
and the intelligence community’s investigative reports thing
and the Trump reassurance that the Russian connection is all “fake news” thing
and the Spicer’s Russian Dressing “nothing’s wrong” thing
and the Chaffetz not willing to start an investigation thing
and the Chaffetz suddenly deciding to go back to private life in the middle of an investigation thing
and the The Lead DOJ Investigator Mary McCord SUDDENLY in the middle of the investigation decides to resign thing
and the appointment of Pam Bondi who was bribed by trump in the trump university scandal appointed to head the investigation thing
and the The White House going into full-on cover-up mode, refusing to turn over the documents related to the hiring and subsequent firing of Flynn thing
and the Chaffetz and White House blaming the poor vetting of Flynn on Obama thing
and the Poland and British intelligence gave information regarding the hacking back in 2015 to Paul Ryan and he didn't do anything thing
and the Agent M16 following the money thing
And now the trump team KNEW about Flynn's involvement but hired him anyway thing
and The Corey Lewendowski thing
and the Preet Bharara firing thing but before he left he transferred evidence against trump to a state level Schneiderman thing
And the Betsy Devos' Brother thing
And the Sebastian Gorka thing
And the Greg Gianforte from Montana thing
And the pence actually was warned about Flynn before he was hired thing
and the Pence and Manafort connection thing
And the 7 Allies coming forward with audio where trump was picked up in incidental wire tapping thing
and the carter Page defying the Senate's order to hand over his Russian contact list thing
and the Obama coming forward and sayin he warned trump directly thing
And the trump wants to VETO Sally Yates' testimony thing
and the trump tweets attacking Yates and defending Flynn thing
and the "no evidence of collusion" attributed to Clapper, who never said such a thing, thing.
and the amnesia epidemic that hit every member of the Inner circle when it comes to remembering meetings with Russians thing.
and the "18" days before Flynn was fired thing
and the witness intimidation through tweets thing
and the McGahn "Why does it matter to the DOJ if one White House official lies to another official?" thing
and firing Comey thing!
and the temporary FBI head, McCabe, being also under investigation thing
and the banning the US press but allowing the Russian press to the Russian ambassador Oval Office meeting thing!
and the Certified Letter thing!
and the threatening Comey thing!
and the firing of Comey thing!
and the I respect the investigation but it is a witch hunt and no president has been so persecuted thing!
and the Kushner back door thing!
and the appointing Christopher Wray, as head of the FBI, whos law firm represented the trump organization and has ties to Rosneft and Gasprom Russian organizations! Yea that thing.
and the blaming Obama for the Russian hacking that a week before he called a hoax and witch hunt!
and the Kushner/ trump jr meeting with Russia's top propagandist Natalia Veselnitskaya thing.
and Peter Smith who actually colluded with Flynn thing
And trump and Tillerson meeting privately with Putin thing.
And trump allowing VISAs to 150 known Russian spys thing.
And trump offering to work with Putin on a cyber security thing.
And the Natalia Veselnitskaya having dinner with a republican congressman after "the meeting" thing.

SO yeah there’s probably nothing there!"

 

[AlwaysHungry]

I remember this stuff from the John Birch Society when I was growing up.
https://www.splcenter.org/sites/default/files/d6_legacy_files/images/media/King.jpg
http://www.orwelltoday.com/jfkadtreason.jpg

 

[domroger]

Alden Bullwinkle

"I don’t know – it’s hard for me to see any trump ties to Russia…except for the Flynn thing and the Manafort thing
and the Tillerson thing
and the Sessions thing
and the Kushner thing
and the Carter Page thing
and the Ivanka hanging with the oligarchs thing
and the Roger Stone thing
and the Felix Sater thing
and the Boris Ephsteyn thing
and the Rosneft thing
and the Gazprom thing
and the Sergey Gorkov banker thing
and the Azerbajain thing
and the “I love Putin” thing
and the Donald Trump, Jr. thing
and the Sergey Kislyak thing
and the Russian Affiliated Interests thing
and the Russian Business Interests thing
and the Emoluments Clause thing
and the Alex Schnaider thing
and the hack of the DNC thing
and the Guccifer 2.0 thing
and the Mike Pence “I don’t know anything” thing
and the Russians mysteriously dying thing
and the Trump’s public request to Russia to hack Hillary’s email thing
and the Trump house sale for $100 million at the bottom of the housing bust to the Russian fertilizer king thing
and the Russian fertilizer king’s plane showing up in Concord, NC during Trump rally campaign thing
and the Nunes sudden flight to the White House in the night thing
and the Nunes personal investments in the Russian winery thing
and the Cyprus bank thing
and Trump not releasing his tax returns thing
and the Republican Party’s rejection of an amendment to require Trump to show his taxes thing
and the election hacking thing
and the GOP platform change to the Ukraine thing
and the Steele Dossier thing
and the Leninist Bannon thing
and the Sally Yates can’t testify thing
and the intelligence community’s investigative reports thing
and the Trump reassurance that the Russian connection is all “fake news” thing
and the Spicer’s Russian Dressing “nothing’s wrong” thing
and the Chaffetz not willing to start an investigation thing
and the Chaffetz suddenly deciding to go back to private life in the middle of an investigation thing
and the The Lead DOJ Investigator Mary McCord SUDDENLY in the middle of the investigation decides to resign thing
and the appointment of Pam Bondi who was bribed by trump in the trump university scandal appointed to head the investigation thing
and the The White House going into full-on cover-up mode, refusing to turn over the documents related to the hiring and subsequent firing of Flynn thing
and the Chaffetz and White House blaming the poor vetting of Flynn on Obama thing
and the Poland and British intelligence gave information regarding the hacking back in 2015 to Paul Ryan and he didn't do anything thing
and the Agent M16 following the money thing
And now the trump team KNEW about Flynn's involvement but hired him anyway thing
and The Corey Lewendowski thing
and the Preet Bharara firing thing but before he left he transferred evidence against trump to a state level Schneiderman thing
And the Betsy Devos' Brother thing
And the Sebastian Gorka thing
And the Greg Gianforte from Montana thing
And the pence actually was warned about Flynn before he was hired thing
and the Pence and Manafort connection thing
And the 7 Allies coming forward with audio where trump was picked up in incidental wire tapping thing
and the carter Page defying the Senate's order to hand over his Russian contact list thing
and the Obama coming forward and sayin he warned trump directly thing
And the trump wants to VETO Sally Yates' testimony thing
and the trump tweets attacking Yates and defending Flynn thing
and the "no evidence of collusion" attributed to Clapper, who never said such a thing, thing.
and the amnesia epidemic that hit every member of the Inner circle when it comes to remembering meetings with Russians thing.
and the "18" days before Flynn was fired thing
and the witness intimidation through tweets thing
and the McGahn "Why does it matter to the DOJ if one White House official lies to another official?" thing
and firing Comey thing!
and the temporary FBI head, McCabe, being also under investigation thing
and the banning the US press but allowing the Russian press to the Russian ambassador Oval Office meeting thing!
and the Certified Letter thing!
and the threatening Comey thing!
and the firing of Comey thing!
and the I respect the investigation but it is a witch hunt and no president has been so persecuted thing!
and the Kushner back door thing!
and the appointing Christopher Wray, as head of the FBI, whos law firm represented the trump organization and has ties to Rosneft and Gasprom Russian organizations! Yea that thing.
and the blaming Obama for the Russian hacking that a week before he called a hoax and witch hunt!
and the Kushner/ trump jr meeting with Russia's top propagandist Natalia Veselnitskaya thing.
and Peter Smith who actually colluded with Flynn thing
And trump and Tillerson meeting privately with Putin thing.
And trump allowing VISAs to 150 known Russian spys thing.
And trump offering to work with Putin on a cyber security thing.
And the Natalia Veselnitskaya having dinner with a republican congressman after "the meeting" thing.

SO yeah there’s probably nothing there!"

Did you miss any ?

 

[Hypoxia]

Did you miss any ?

There's no Russian Roulette. Yet.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

Did you miss any ?

I am far too lazy these days to compile all of that information. Credit someone who calls himself Alden Bullwinkle

 

[AlwaysHungry]

I despise Trump for continuing the Bush/Obama policies of bullying small countries around the globe, while polishing the knobs of the Brits and Saudis. However, I will cut him some slack if he continues to reduce tensions with Russia and China, first because I think that nuclear war is quite dangerous, probably more dangerous than global warming, and secondly because Russia and China are working together to reduce tensions by collaborating on massive global infrastructure plans. While the US is increasingly paralyzed because our leaders have been opposed to infrastructure development since the 1960s, the rest of the world is rapidly modernizing. Nations in Africa and South America which have been trapped in poverty now have hope, mainly due to China. If Trump decides to join up with that, I'll forgive all the other crap he is into.

 

[Hypoxia]

I despise Trump for continuing the Bush/Obama policies of bullying small countries around the globe, while polishing the knobs of the Brits and Saudis. However, I will cut him some slack if he continues to reduce tensions with Russia and China..

Tensions with China have not been easing much. Not on the surface, anyway. Trompskies issue much blather and threats re: China but have quietly handed-over significant global power and influence to Beijing.

Let's see, how will Tromp reduce tensions with Russia? By rolling over and peeing all over himself? By acquiescing to Russia's expansionism and attacks on Western democracies? By staying loyal to his owners? Russia is waging war on the US. Shall we reduce tensions by surrendering?

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Let's see, how will Tromp reduce tensions with Russia? By rolling over and peeing all over himself? By acquiescing to Russia's expansionism and attacks on Western democracies? By staying loyal to his owners? Russia is waging war on the US. Shall we reduce tensions by surrendering?

Jeez, enough with the frantic right-wing hysteria. Go drink some flouridated water, it's good for you. Makes your teeth strong.

https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5909515e6552fa0be682bce9/4:3/w_960,c_limit/dr-strangelove-still-580.jpg

 

[Hypoxia]

Jeez, enough with the frantic right-wing hysteria. Go drink some flouridated water, it's good for you. Makes your teeth strong.

[sigh] I'll try again. The Russian defense minister declared that Russia is waging war on the West (which includes USA). Russia is at war with us. Right now. USAnians supporting Russia commit treason. Got that?

 

[DrDelirium]

The US has been at war continuously with Russia since 1917. The collapse of the Soviet Union with the Yeltsin coup did nothing to change this, it simply allowed a period of cost-free plundering of Russian resources and the gobbling up of former Soviet Bloc states. There was barely a pause for breath before Clinton attacked and dismembered Yugoslavia and began pulling East Bloc countries into NATO, in violation of Bush I commitments to the Russians. You can think whatever you want about the USSR, but the US had a clear policy of aggression against the Russian successor-state from the moment it came into existence, and this has only increased in intensity as Russia has attempted to get back on its feet. Russia was seen as a helpless frog that could be boiled and digested at leisure, and American policy makers are having a difficult time adjusting to the fact that it has jumped out of the pot and has grown a big set of fangs in self defense. The Russians have 'attacked' us by not surrendering and allowing thenselves to be devoured, and now we have to deal with that, but we certainly had other options in the early 90s.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

The US has been at war continuously with Russia since 1917. The collapse of the Soviet Union with the Yeltsin coup did nothing to change this, it simply allowed a period of cost-free plundering of Russian resources and the gobbling up of former Soviet Bloc states. There was barely a pause for breath before Clinton attacked and dismembered Yugoslavia and began pulling East Bloc countries into NATO, in violation of Bush I commitments to the Russians. You can think whatever you want about the USSR, but the US had a clear policy of aggression against the Russian successor-state from the moment it came into existence, and this has only increased in intensity as Russia has attempted to get back on its feet. Russia was seen as a helpless frog that could be boiled and digested at leisure, and American policy makers are having a difficult time adjusting to the fact that it has jumped out of the pot and has grown a big set of fangs in self defense. The Russians have 'attacked' us by not surrendering and allowing thenselves to be devoured, and now we have to deal with that, but we certainly had other options in the early 90s.

I think that this is largely true. I would dispute the "continuously since 1917" assertion, since the US and USSR were allies during the second world war. I recommend a book entitled As He Saw It by Elliot Roosevelt, the son of FDR who sat in on many of the meetings with Churchill, Stalin and others. Here's an interesting passage:

Churchill had got up to walk about the room. Talking, gesticulating, at length he paused in front of Father, was silent for a moment, looking at him, and then brandished a stubby forefinger under Father’s nose.

“Mr. President,” he cried, “I believe you are trying to do away with the British Empire. Every idea you entertain about the structure of the postwar world demonstrates it. But in spite of that” — and his forefinger waved — “in spite of that,we know that you constitute our only hope. And” — his voice sank dramatically— “you know that we know it. You know that we know that without America, the Empire won’t stand.”

Churchill admitted, in that moment, that he knew the peace could only be won according to precepts which the United States of America would lay down. And in saying what he did, he was acknowledging that British colonial policy would be a dead duck, and British attempts to dominate world trade would be a dead duck, and British ambitions to play off the U.S.S.R. against the U.S.A. would be a dead duck.

Or would have been, if Father had lived.

For me, one of the most shameful episodes during my lifetime was the coup d'etat which the Obama administration orchestrated in Ukraine, overthrowing an elected government and installing a gang of neo-Nazi hooligans. The worst part was seeing Obama & Co. puff out their chests and bray about support for democracy.

 

[DrDelirium]

I think that this is largely true. I would dispute the "continuously since 1917" assertion, since the US and USSR were allies during the second world war. I recommend a book entitled As He Saw It by Elliot Roosevelt, the son of FDR who sat in on many of the meetings with Churchill, Stalin and others. Here's an interesting passage:



For me, one of the most shameful episodes during my lifetime was the coup d'etat which the Obama administration orchestrated in Ukraine, overthrowing an elected government and installing a gang of neo-Nazi hooligans. The worst part was seeing Obama & Co. puff out their chests and bray about support for democracy.

I don't think that the temporary cooperation against the Nazis and Japan during WWII was anything more than tactical from the US point of view, at least in the halls of power. As usual, there was a gap between the attitudes and perceptions of ordinary citizens and the Powers That Be. It's hard to know Roosevelt's inner thoughts on a lot of issues, but his meta-policy was certainly to save capitalism from itself by cooperation with many 'enemy forces' from a purist ideological view, both at home and abroad. In this sense, Trump is more like Roosevelt than anyone wants to admit. Not nearly as adroit, of course, but similar forces were arrayed against Roosevelt in similar ways for quite awhile. It was easier for Roosevelt in many ways, including having a significant base of relatively sophisticated and aware, organized workers to play to, and the rather clear external enemy of Naziism/fascism. Trump is faced with the much more complex task of reigning the most predatory form of finance capitalism, while still being an ardent capitalism, and it's probably not a job he's up to. The nazis out there, as you point out, are of our own devising, and there's no organized base of American workers per se to counterbalance the power of the big corporations- which are much bigger than in Roosevelt's day.
It would be interesting to know how things might have played out if Roosevelt had lived, and stayed in office, longer, but it can be argued that Truman was an instant Cold Warrior, surrounded by people like MacArthur who wanted nothing better than an immediate hot war against Russia.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

Watching this interview with Lavrov, I must conclude that he possesses more intellect and dignity than the last 3 US presidents combined. The interviewer is super-sleazy and -slutty. And British, of course.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Watching this interview with Lavrov, I must conclude that he possesses more intellect and dignity than the last 3 US presidents combined. The interviewer is super-sleazy and -slutty. And British, of course.

You seem to have issues with Brits. Specifically English, Scottish, Welsh or The Northern Irish?

 

[AlwaysHungry]

You seem to have issues with Brits. Specifically English, Scottish, Welsh or The Northern Irish?

Those of the imperial/geopolitical persuasion. See also: neo-cons.

 

[jaF0]

Do I have to disclose I like a song by a Metal Group called 'Russian Circles'? If I don't will there be an investigation?

 

[Hypoxia]

I regularly play MOSCOW NIGHTS (Midnite In Moscow) and THOSE WERE THE DAYS (a Russian drinking song) and GENTLY FLOWS THE DON (that's a Russian river) but I balance those with JUST A WINE-STONED PLOWGIRL (about Ukranian-Canadians) and THE DUKHOBOR WALTZ (ditto, but they're nudists). Do I need to register somewhere?

Must my guitars, balalaikas, tars, and bouzoukis be listed as enemy weapons? I've tuned-down my cheap Russian mandolin to play Delta blues in E -- is that cultural appropriation?

 

[Hard_Rom]

Hey, hey, hey!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvDMlk3kSYg