Totally out of Character?

[Kantarii]

I can understand how (in real life) people may have a change of heart about things, but realistically that isn't always the case. I tend to translate this thinking into the stories I read.

Quite often, the stories I read on Lit have characters that in one sentence they are doing things or acting in a certain way.... and then, Bam! The character is doing or saying something that totally contradicts the character. I can understand it only as far as Fiction allows.

All kinds of questions could spawn off this topic, but does it bother you to read a story where the character contradicts themself in the span of a few sentences or paragraphs?

 

[LeandraNyx]

Deleted

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, it would bother me if the author didn't reconcile the seeming contradictions of character (or show that the point is they the characters are internally contradictory) by the end of the story, but, in fact, it's not at all unusual that it seems like people are contradicting their established character. They do it all the time in real life. And, in fiction, it's one of the elements of tension that authors are handed to create a story--showing contradictions and how they complicate the scene and create uncertainty and confusion--and then leading the reader to discovering for him/herself how it all ties together into understanding and revealing the character and plot by the end. And, guess what, sometime (lots of time; maybe most of the time) characters and real life people are riddled with contradictions and it isn't all going to be simple and follow a straight line. Sometimes the whole point is to point to the natural irrationality of people in the flesh.

 

[Hypoxia]

We generally want our tales to be internally consistent. Contradictory character traits are certainly consistent with human behaviors, so what's the problem? Yes, we may want to devise excuses for the contradictions, possibly including abusive upbringing, insanity, external compulsion (drugs, hypnosis, blackmail, etc), absurdity, whatever.

We work-out our contradictions dramatically. Or maybe we fail. That's life.

 

[NotWise]

A lot of the characters in Lit stories are little more developed than giggling bimbos or talking cocks. If the character has inconsistent behavior, then in context I think maybe it's more likely that the author doesn't have a good handle on his/her character than that the character is complex and internally conflicted.

But hey, we can always give them benefit of the doubt.

 

[Bramblethorn]

"Do I contradict myself? Well, then, I contradict myself. I am large; I contain multitudes." - Thoreau, IIRC.

As SR said, stories about people acting out of character can be really interesting. "The Hobbit" is one example: Bilbo is a respectable fellow who just wants a quiet life with his home comforts, until he gets dragged into adventure and discovers that being a burglar is actually quite exciting. "I never thought this would happen to me but then" is a porn cliché, along with "good girl gone bad".

I think the important distinction here is between authors who intentionally write a character with complexity, and authors who write inconsistently because they've forgotten how they described the character earlier.

 

[Hypoxia]

I think the important distinction here is between authors who intentionally write a character with complexity, and authors who write inconsistently because they've forgotten how they described the character earlier.

For excitement, an author can be so nutz (natural, or induced by drugs, etc) as to write quite schizo players. Is that intended character development or did the author just take something?

 

[lovecraft68]

You mean like the shy wallflower virgin girl who three sentences later is fucking the basketball team like Sasha Grey?

The dominant bitch in control woman who in two sentences become a drooling giggling cum dumpster when some guy shows her his dick?

The straight woman who sees two girls kissing and immediately dives between another woman's legs?

The normal son who has never had an out of the ordinary thought about his mother, then see's mom's tits and is sucking them within ten seconds?

Welcome to erotica.

 

[NotWise]

You mean like the shy wallflower virgin girl who three sentences later is fucking the basketball team like Sasha Grey?

The dominant bitch in control woman who in two sentences become a drooling giggling cum dumpster when some guy shows her his dick?

The straight woman who sees two girls kissing and immediately dives between another woman's legs?

The normal son who has never had an out of the ordinary thought about his mother, then see's mom's tits and is sucking them within ten seconds?

That's what I'm thinking of as the norm. NOT complex characters with internal conflicts.

 

[JasonClearwater]

And, in fiction, it's one of the elements of tension that authors are handed to create a story--showing contradictions and how they complicate the scene and create uncertainty and confusion--and then leading the reader to discovering for him/herself how it all ties together into understanding and revealing the character and plot by the end.

Yep. And there's nothing worse than someone assuming you don't know what you're doing, and so not seeing that it's intentional and reasoned. But that means building up the reader's trust by providing enough coherent writing for them to give you the benefit of the doubt.

You could argue that, if out of character behaviour looks erratic, that's the fault of the writer. Or you could argue that (in some instances), the problem is no one's looking for character dev and plot in a piece of smut.

I know one thing... I'm not going to explain every single reference and influence as I go as Ernest Cline did in Ready Player One (great book, but that aspect annoyed me). If it all flies past the reader unregistered, so be it.

 

[sr71plt]

Actually, I get irritated with threads like this where authors get their noses into (and look down their noses at) the writing of other authors. I don't read much of what others write here, but when I do and I'm not wild about it, my first instinct isn't to come here and tell them how they should write. I just move on to something else. I concentrate on my own writing.

 

[SamScribble]

I think that there is a strain of erotica in which all real life is suspended. The virgin who turns into a nymphomaniac in the time that it takes to make a cup of tea, for example.

A few years ago, a 'filmmaker' asked me to write a story for an 'up-market' porno. I duly submitted my draft script; the producer thanked me (and paid me ); and, a couple of months later, he sent me a link to the rough cut. They had cut out everything that explained the character's change of character! Oh, well.

That said, here on Lit, there are a small number of readers who seem to appreciate proper short stories that just happen to have an erotic element. That's who I write for these days. And, if you want them to smile, you had better have believable characters who act in almost believable ways. Just saying.

 

[CyranoJ]

does it bother you to read a story where the character contradicts themself in the span of a few sentences or paragraphs?

If there's some reason for the contradiction, no. People can be contradictory and that in itself can be part of their character.

More usually, though: yeah, it's just bad writing.

 

[LeandraNyx]

Deleted

 

[Hypoxia]

Readers will tolerate a certain degree of disbelief, but there is a limit. Your characters don't have to be 100% believable, but they do need to be almost 100% believable.

Clive Cussler has a rewarding career writing quite absurd stuff about totally unbelievable characters. Much fantasy of all sorts is unbelievable. IMHO the importance of believability depends on the tone of the story. Satire and raw tragedy allow/demand different tones, different standards of fitness. Be snarky and ye need not be believable.

Out-of-character is more a matter of consistency. The virgin-wallflower-turns-nympho disconnect needs to be smoothed-over or it DOES jar us. Luckily, we only need a throwaway excuse for the transition -- something snapped inside her! -- and we can continue one-handed to the exciting gangbangs and their aftermaths.

People (audiences) will believe whatever the fuck they WANT to believe.

 

[LeandraNyx]

Deleted

 

[RetroFan]

There has to be a reason two characters have sex in erotic fiction otherwise it simply does not work.

Let's say for example I wrote a story set in America in the late 1960s where the Vietnam War is a major factor, and the two main erotic characters are a girl named Judy and a guy named Jim. Judy is a hippie girl heavily involved in anti-Vietnam protests, while Jim is a guy who is from a far more conservative background, is in the army and views his upcoming tour of Vietnam with pride at serving his country.

There has to be some reason - some interesting, compelling reason referenced and explained in the story - why Judy and Jim are attracted to each other despite being complete opposites and have sex together otherwise you leave your readers scratching their heads. Choose what you like - perhaps Judy and Jim grew up together and he always had a bit of a secret crush on her, and despite her anti Vietnam stance Judy is secretly turned on by men in uniforms, but the reason must be there.

 

[sr71plt]

The man's reason, of course, would, at the minimum, be that he gets whatever he can whenever he can.

 

[Hypoxia]

Love vs lust vs other stuff... Give the pacifist chick an incurable STD which she donates to every military member she finds. Or she tries to talk horny soldiers into deserting. Or she suffers from self-loathing, and screwing murderous troops is the lowest she can go. Or it's a racial thang; Li'l Ms Lilywhite only goes for non-white soldiers.

Point is, all sorts of excuses / rationales are available. They may be deep or paper-thin. Just use something that works, and move on.

 

[Comentarista82]

I can understand how (in real life) people may have a change of heart about things, but realistically that isn't always the case. I tend to translate this thinking into the stories I read.

Quite often, the stories I read on Lit have characters that in one sentence they are doing things or acting in a certain way.... and then, Bam! The character is doing or saying something that totally contradicts the character. I can understand it only as far as Fiction allows.

All kinds of questions could spawn off this topic, but does it bother you to read a story where the character contradicts themself in the span of a few sentences or paragraphs?

It doesn't bother me if the character contradicts himself/herself in a few sentences or paragraphs, but if the premise is that character is supposed to be a "gentleman" for example, was raised that way, cares for women, etc. but structurally over the long hall he's selfish, calls the females names and is obviously using one (or especially more) without recriminations and no personal internal conflict...well, he's no "gentleman." Now if he's a "gentleman" then suffers a serious concussion and a little time passes and he turns into a raging sex fiend, that's plausible and medical.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

In most of my stories, I think I'm trying to explain away way someone would make out of character choices. As a minimum, how they explain away making the unusual or downright preposterous into something acceptable to themselves.

 

[Kantarii]

You mean like the shy wallflower virgin girl who three sentences later is fucking the basketball team like Sasha Grey?

The dominant bitch in control woman who in two sentences become a drooling giggling cum dumpster when some guy shows her his dick?

The straight woman who sees two girls kissing and immediately dives between another woman's legs?

The normal son who has never had an out of the ordinary thought about his mother, then see's mom's tits and is sucking them within ten seconds?

Welcome to erotica.

LC, there are a lot of great answers on this thread, but I think your comment pretty much put the nail in the coffin on what I was trying to point out.
Just as in real life, I can understand characters in stories changing their minds and even being contradictory to their nature to some degree.
Your list of examples kinda had me laughing. I was going to add the straight guy that never had a gay thought, and in the span of three sentences, is a cock slut, sleeping with every guy that comes to his house with two things: beer and a hard on.

Most of what I was trying to point out tends to fall back on poor character development. It is my firm belief that it's the writer's duty to put some explanation (believable or otherwise) into why there is a shift in the character's thoughts or actions. But, that's just me.

 

[Hypoxia]

Most of what I was trying to point out tends to fall back on poor character development. It is my firm belief that it's the writer's duty to put some explanation (believable or otherwise) into why there is a shift in the character's thoughts or actions. But, that's just me.

A *paid* author has a duty to be somewhat comprehensible, if only to whomever pays them. A *LIT* author has a duty to not be caught violating Laurel's rules; any other duty is only in the author's head.

I have a duty to make myself enjoy my own writing; it's gravy if anyone else enjoys it. Authors with 'loyal' fan bases may feel obliged to satisfy 'their' readers. But an audience enjoying psychotic bullshit is still an audience, hey? For many readers, copious hot action trumps a core of nonsense. Poke-em again!

I usually harbor a reality fetish. I usually try to write stuff that somehow makes sense. I try to frame nonsense as clearly satirical or uber-fantasy. I usually try to make everything fit together like Lincoln Logs smothered in maple syrup and sprinkled with glitter. Do I succeed?

 

[AMoveableBeast]

"Do I contradict myself? Well, then, I contradict myself. I am large; I contain multitudes." - Thoreau, IIRC.

As SR said, stories about people acting out of character can be really interesting. "The Hobbit" is one example: Bilbo is a respectable fellow who just wants a quiet life with his home comforts, until he gets dragged into adventure and discovers that being a burglar is actually quite exciting. "I never thought this would happen to me but then" is a porn cliché, along with "good girl gone bad".

I think the important distinction here is between authors who intentionally write a character with complexity, and authors who write inconsistently because they've forgotten how they described the character earlier.

I'm fairly sure your quote is misattributed. It's Whitman, isn't it? Song of Myself?

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm fairly sure your quote is misattributed. It's Whitman, isn't it? Song of Myself?

Yep. It's Whitman.