UK election results - voters say none of the above

[oggbashan]

Almost all the UK election results are in.

The Conservatives, who called the election to get a bigger majority to negotiate Brexit, lost their majority.

Labour, who elected and re-elected their most left-wing leader in decades, made gains but not enough.

The Scottish Nationalists lost more seats than they expected; the Scottish Conservatives won more than they expected.

There seems to be no way any grouping of parties can form a majority government. A minority government might not survive for more than a few months.

The pound has fallen against the dollar and the euro. The EU negotiators on Brexit are now in a stronger position than they were.

It's a fucking mess because the voters have decided no party is fit to govern.

I expect another election within months...

 

[magicalmoments]

Months?
I would have thought weeks!
Who's going to replace theresa May as leader of the conservatives to lead them into a new e!ection?

 

[sharingfantasies]

Not a good time to be a politician anywhere. Worse time for the voters. Wish we could do a redo, but with better choices.

 

[oggbashan]

Months?
I would have thought weeks!
Who's going to replace theresa May as leader of the conservatives to lead them into a new e!ection?

Boris Johnson has already been suggested.

My suggestion of months is based on my memories of previous hung parliaments. It takes time to appreciate what a fucking mess the government of the country is in. No party is ready to start another expensive election campaign now.

They have to rethink their manifestos, their policies, their strategy, their leadership and raise money to finance another campaign.

 

[oggbashan]

The Corbyn effect has been interesting to watch.

He has generated enthusiasm among younger voters who have registered AND voted in greater numbers than ever.

He has also appalled many traditional Labour voters who would have voted Labour but not with Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

The impact was very mixed. Labour lost votes in some traditional areas and gained them in constituencies with younger voters.

 

[magicalmoments]

I would have thought Boris would be a non starter. Too much like Trump!

 

[oggbashan]

I would have thought Boris would be a non starter. Too much like Trump!

But he is known nationally (and internationally). That counts for more than a sound nonentity.

Whether he could win? That depends on the Conservatives changing their proposed policies. They now know that their manifesto was a shambles.

 

[ChloeTzang]

But he is known nationally (and internationally). That counts for more than a sound nonentity.

Whether he could win? That depends on the Conservatives changing their proposed policies. They now know that their manifesto was a shambles.

That manifesto? One can only ask, what were they thinking? Hubris. If they'd just stuck to Brexit and skipped everything else, but noooooo, they had to get clever. Just a total mess. May's dead in the water now.

 

[Hard_Rom]

I think people are tired of hardline politics. France went middle of the road rejecting hardline RW nationalism and out right socialists. Germany looks likely to re-elect Merkel. If only because Trump is so unpopular there and he apparently does not like Merkel or Germany. The Dutch rejected hardline nationalists. Canada has a majority centrist party. Trump got in with 27% of electorate and needed a quirk in US system.

Everything in moderation. And even more so in politics.

Still think the UK's disillusion with Liberals is unrealistic.

After the divisive referendum on Brexit, May was dumb to call an election. Should have known there would be some backlash from Remainers taking revenge. Conservatives had a majority and threw it away. Calling an election 3 years early when you already have a majority. Dumb, dumb and dumb!

 

[oggbashan]

... Calling an election 3 years early when you already have a majority. Dumb, dumb and dumb!

Pissing off their core voters was even dumber.

We'll take your house away to pay for your care? We'll leave you £100k which won't buy your kids a bedsit. The previous situation was bad - if one of a couple got dementia and needed care for years their capital EXCEPT their house would be taken away. But adding in the house and stating all care for whatever reason would be charged? Madness!

It's not just the grandparents who were angry. Their children and grandchildren's only chance of property ownership was at risk. The bank of Mum and Dad, or Grandma and Granddad would be inadequate.

There was nothing to bring back a property-owning society nor even building houses to cope with population increases.

As for schools? Reduce funding with more children needing schools? Then add in grammar schools from the distant past? That pissed off teachers and any parent with children at school or pre-school.

Another vote on hunting?

I could go on and on.

But Labour were nearly as bad offering jam for everyone and no real idea how much that would cost and whether they could afford it. Of course no university charges and eradication of student debt are popular with students but how much will that cost? Nationalising the railways? The track and infrastructure already is but the trains? How much to buy them? More borrowing, more debt? Labour has been there before and nearly broke the country's economy. They aren't trusted with money and their promises just didn't add up.

Lib Dems? Another vote on Brexit when and if a deal is on offer? What made them think the EU would offer anything when they have already made it clear that the UK won't be better out of the EU?

and, and...

A plague on all of them!

 

[Hard_Rom]

Our NDP is the equivalent of Labour. The issue of how to pay for all their programs I what keeps them out of power.

Free tuition! Hard to resist that.

 

[DeYaKen]

I think people are tired of hardline politics. France went middle of the road rejecting hardline RW nationalism and out right socialists. Germany looks likely to re-elect Merkel. If only because Trump is so unpopular there and he apparently does not like Merkel or Germany. The Dutch rejected hardline nationalists. Canada has a majority centrist party. Trump got in with 27% of electorate and needed a quirk in US system.

Everything in moderation. And even more so in politics.

Still think the UK's disillusion with Liberals is unrealistic.

After the divisive referendum on Brexit, May was dumb to call an election. Should have known there would be some backlash from Remainers taking revenge. Conservatives had a majority and threw it away. Calling an election 3 years early when you already have a majority. Dumb, dumb and dumb!

I can see how you might think it was stupid but you probably have not had all the facts. The day she called the election, she was informed that papers had been passed to the Director of Public prosecutions alleging Electoral Fraud by 22 of her MPs. (So far only 1 has been charged) This could have led to 22 By-Elections and the loss of her majority. It would also have caused a lot of bad press for the party. By calling an election she hoped to stall that process as there would be no public benefit in progressing the cases.

Her PR company told her that Labour's biggest weakness was Corbyn and urged her to fight on personalities. Corbyn turned out to be a very good campaigner and refused to take part in the personal mud slinging. Theresa May showed herself to be a very hollow personality so the campaign built solely around her faltered. When she said she would stand on her record, the audience actually laughed at her. Corbyn's focus on issues, like the NHS, Education cuts, and social welfare won him a lot of support. They turned it into Vote for Theresa may because she is Theresa May, or Vote Labour to fix the NHS, give your child a good education and stop working people having to rely on food banks.

The Labour campaign had Jeremy Corbyn waiving his manifesto saying "This is what I'm asking you to vote for". The Conservatives had Theresa May saying "Vote for me. I'm a bloody awkward woman and I'll deliver a Brexit deal." She never told us what that deal would be, just asked us to trust her when she said it would be good.

North of the border, the SNP's Nicola Sturgeon had already shot herself in the foot by demanding a second independence referendum only two years after independence was rejected. The conservative campaign there was completely different. There it was the only way to protect the union is to vote conservative. For many that worked. with more than fifty percent of Scots wanting to be joined to Britain, it was a guarantee of success. However, some couldn't bring themselves to vote Conservative so elected Labour or Liberal Democrat in order to show the SNP that they didn't want another referendum.

The only real winner has been Jeremy Corbyn. Once labelled by the government and his own MPs as unelectable, he has turned around an ailing party and showed that his policies have a lot of support.

 

[oggbashan]

I can see how you might think it was stupid but you probably have not had all the facts. The day she called the election, she was informed that papers had been passed to the Director of Public prosecutions alleging Electoral Fraud by 22 of her MPs. (So far only 1 has been charged) ...

Update: Only 1 has been charged. The other 21 have been told there is no case to answer. The 1 who has been charged was relected yesterday (for Thanet South).

Edited for PS: IF he is found guilty there will be a by-election. If the Conservatives lose that? Their fragile majority will be reduced further.

 

[DeYaKen]

Pissing off their core voters was even dumber.

We'll take your house away to pay for your care? We'll leave you £100k which won't buy your kids a bedsit. The previous situation was bad - if one of a couple got dementia and needed care for years their capital EXCEPT their house would be taken away. But adding in the house and stating all care for whatever reason would be charged? Madness!

It's not just the grandparents who were angry. Their children and grandchildren's only chance of property ownership was at risk. The bank of Mum and Dad, or Grandma and Granddad would be inadequate.

There was nothing to bring back a property-owning society nor even building houses to cope with population increases.

As for schools? Reduce funding with more children needing schools? Then add in grammar schools from the distant past? That pissed off teachers and any parent with children at school or pre-school.

Another vote on hunting?

I could go on and on.

But Labour were nearly as bad offering jam for everyone and no real idea how much that would cost and whether they could afford it. Of course no university charges and eradication of student debt are popular with students but how much will that cost? Nationalising the railways? The track and infrastructure already is but the trains? How much to buy them? More borrowing, more debt?


A plague on all of them!

We already own most of the Trains Ogg, That is the bone of contention. The taxpayer owns the trains and the tracks that they run on. They then pay the train companies a subsidy to run the trains. When the East Coast mainline was taken back into public ownership (because the parent company of GNER went bust) it turned a tidy profit. The only reason the Franchise was sold to Virgin was to satisfy political ideology.

It is sort of like the way the government gave BT (openreach is a wholly owned subsidiary) billions of pound to distribute fast broadband. BT then charged everyone more money to use the improved facility that they had already paid for through their taxes.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Maybe you guys are used to coalition governments. No Canadian party would throw a majority government to the whims of the voters. Ride out any storm until it looks like the ship is going down and then call an election. Hell a war could break out in some distant country and oil prices could sky rocket. Then you could dole out cash for social programs and tax cuts like a real bloody socialist. Voters like that sort of thing.

 

[DeYaKen]

Update: Only 1 has been charged. The other 21 have been told there is no case to answer. The 1 who has been charged was relected yesterday (for Thanet South).

Edited for PS: IF he is found guilty there will be a by-election. If the Conservatives lose that? Their fragile majority will be reduced further.

I think you will find that the DPP didn't say there was no case to answer, simply that it was not in the public interest to pursue the cases.

 

[oggbashan]

I think you will find that the DPP didn't say there was no case to answer, simply that it was not in the public interest to pursue the cases.

I think you are right. The effect is the same but it shows what a mess UK election funding is. Local candidates' expenditure is capped but National expenditure does not have to follow the same rules.

When parties concentrate their national efforts on marginal seats almost any party can break the rules either by intention or inadvertently. But reform is constantly stalled.