Nuclear deal with Iran, now arms sale to Saudi Arabia

[hashtag46]

What America’s new arms deal with Saudi Arabia says about the Trump administration
https://www.vox.com/2017/5/20/15626638/trump-saudi-arabia-arms-deal


"Obama offered a big deal to the Saudis — but Trump gave the Saudis what they really wanted
Trump hailed the deal as a victory, saying it “was a great day” because of “tremendous investments in the United States . . . and jobs, jobs, jobs,” reports the Washington Post. He couldn’t be prouder of this.

And it is a big deal — but the Obama administration approved an ever bigger, $115 billion arms sale to the Saudis back in September that included “weapons, other military equipment, and training,” according to Reuters.

And though relations between the two countries were strained during the Obama years due in large part to the administration’s overtures to Iran, it was still the biggest deal ever offered in the history of the US-Saudi alliance.

But it came with another price.
The Obama administration increasingly tried (although not hard enough to make any noticeable difference) to use its leverage over the Saudis — in particular, US military support and arms sales — to compel the Saudis to stop these sorts of flagrant human rights violations."

 

[hashtag46]

Obama's secret backdoor deal : Giving Iran nuclear nukes
http://www.dailywire.com/news/7620/bombshell-michael-qazvini

"According to an exclusive report published by the Associated Press, leaked documents reveal that Iran’s breakout time to develop nuclear weapons may be much shorter than the Obama administration has led us to believe. The infamous Iran nuclear deal sits at the foundation of President Obama’s foreign policy legacy."

 

[Floridian]

What America’s new arms deal with Saudi Arabia says about the Trump administration
https://www.vox.com/2017/5/20/15626638/trump-saudi-arabia-arms-deal


"Obama offered a big deal to the Saudis — but Trump gave the Saudis what they really wanted
Trump hailed the deal as a victory, saying it “was a great day” because of “tremendous investments in the United States . . . and jobs, jobs, jobs,” reports the Washington Post. He couldn’t be prouder of this.

And it is a big deal — but the Obama administration approved an ever bigger, $115 billion arms sale to the Saudis back in September that included “weapons, other military equipment, and training,” according to Reuters.

And though relations between the two countries were strained during the Obama years due in large part to the administration’s overtures to Iran, it was still the biggest deal ever offered in the history of the US-Saudi alliance.

But it came with another price.
The Obama administration increasingly tried (although not hard enough to make any noticeable difference) to use its leverage over the Saudis — in particular, US military support and arms sales — to compel the Saudis to stop these sorts of flagrant human rights violations."

https://up1.xhcdn.com/000/139/111/859_1000.gif

 

[phrodeau]

Do you think Trump should give Saudis nukes?

 

[hashtag46]

Do you think Trump should give Saudis nukes?

For me, it's not about Trump versus Obama.

Why are you guys arming both sides?


ETA
Follow the money, of course.
The term military -industrial complex is so suggestive.

 

[phrodeau]

For me, it's not about Trump versus Obama.

Why are you guys arming both sides?


ETA
Follow the money, of course.
The term military -industrial complex is so suggestive.

Who is arming Iran?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Phro-doh! is pathetically stupid...



Trump is taking corrective action for the mistake the Obama Administration made when it normalized Iran (and indirectly North Korea, its partner in crime) and gave it the green light to become a nuclear power equipped with ballistic missiles. It does not create any new or unusual dynamic in the ongoing Sunni-Shia war for power in the region but helps keep a balance of power and gives the Kingdom more incentive to keep providing us with intelligence on terrorist organizations.

Keep in mind that one thing Iran has accomplished is the creation of an Israeli-Saudi alliance. If there is to be peace, it will only be through strength.

 

[Liar]

Obama's secret backdoor deal : Giving Iran nuclear nukes

Are there non nuclear nukes?

 

[hashtag46]

Are there non nuclear nukes?

Gosh, true.

Phro-doh! is pathetically stupid...

Trump is taking corrective action for the mistake the Obama Administration made when it normalized Iran (and indirectly North Korea, its partner in crime) and gave it the green light to become a nuclear power equipped with ballistic missiles. It does not create any new or unusual dynamic in the ongoing Sunni-Shia war for power in the region but helps keep a balance of power and gives the Kingdom more incentive to keep providing us with intelligence on terrorist organizations.

Keep in mind that one thing Iran has accomplished is the creation of an Israeli-Saudi alliance. If there is to be peace, it will only be through strength.

Good points, thanks.

Well, I'm not dead set on the conspiracy theory that's been floating around on the net, and regrettably even amongst more intellectual public speakers:
-- That all this irregular warfare and over- arming worlwide have been happening because the US derives most of it's money from the armament businness.
--- While there probably must be some elements of truth to it, I find it too one- sided and over the top.

But it's striking that the US made two deals which contradict each other, so I was hoping to hear people's view on that.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

As repeatedly pointed out, we are a deeply divided nation and our actions are the actions of those two mindsets. For whatever reason the Left supports Iran and the elimination of Israel as the key to peace. The rest of us do not like the idea of North Korea and Iran working together to join the nuclear club.as a means of preserving their tyrannies. We have watched Iran export violence for years now. Rewarding them for that behavior clearly did not stop their drive to export death and destruction, all it did was give them more resources with which to do so.

 

[hashtag46]

As repeatedly pointed out, we are a deeply divided nation and our actions are the actions of those two mindsets. For whatever reason the Left supports Iran and the elimination of Israel as the key to peace. The rest of us do not like the idea of North Korea and Iran working together to join the nuclear club.as a means of preserving their tyrannies. We have watched Iran export violence for years now. Rewarding them for that behavior clearly did not stop their drive to export death and destruction, all it did was give them more resources with which to do so.

The lesser of two evils, I guess…
Which is the only realistic, workable way as far as politics and real life are concerned.

 

[Sean]

For whatever reason the Left supports Iran and the elimination of Israel as the key to peace.

This is just a flat out lie. It shows the paucity of your position that your only argument is to make up shit that you can argue against.

 

[lovecraft68]

As repeatedly pointed out, we are a deeply divided nation and our actions are the actions of those two mindsets. For whatever reason the Left supports Iran and the elimination of Israel as the key to peace. The rest of us do not like the idea of North Korea and Iran working together to join the nuclear club.as a means of preserving their tyrannies. We have watched Iran export violence for years now. Rewarding them for that behavior clearly did not stop their drive to export death and destruction, all it did was give them more resources with which to do so.

I think many around the world now see the US in the same light as NK and Iran....a total fucking idiot with his finger on a nuke.

 

[hashtag46]

Well, this might challenge a bit both 4est's and other posters' comments on this (the way I understood them) :

One of the articles in the OP claims that it was the Obama administration who started rolling the deal with Saudi Arabia, and that Trump just carried it through.
Being a liberal newssite, they are claiming of course that Trump made it worse:


__________________________________________________________

"Obama offered a big deal to the Saudis — but Trump gave the Saudis what they really wanted

The Obama administration approved an ever bigger, $115 billion arms sale to the Saudis back in September that included “weapons, other military equipment, and training,” according to Reuters.

But it came with another price.
The Saudis, with support of the US and several other regional allies, have led a two-year campaign against the Houthis, an Iranian-backed armed group that is trying to dislodge the Saudi-backed Yemeni government. The war has been brutal…
[… ]
The Obama administration increasingly tried (although not hard enough to make any noticeable difference) to use its leverage over the Saudis — in particular, US military support and arms sales — to compel the Saudis to stop flagrant human rights violations.

Trump, on the other hand, doesn’t prioritize human rights or values in his foreign policy.… "

https://www.vox.com/2017/5/20/15626638/trump-saudi-arabia-arms-deal

 

[phrodeau]

Gosh, true.

Good points, thanks.

Well, I'm not dead set on the conspiracy theory that's been floating around on the net, and regrettably even amongst more intellectual public speakers:
-- That all this irregular warfare and over- arming worlwide have been happening because the US derives most of it's money from the armament businness.
--- While there probably must be some elements of truth to it, I find it too one- sided and over the top.

But it's striking that the US made two deals which contradict each other, so I was hoping to hear people's view on that.

Where is the contradiction? The US set up conditions to keep Iran from getting WMD's for several years, and now has sold arms to Saudi Arabia. It's pretty clear that the US is playing on only one side.

 

[HisArpy]

Where is the contradiction? The US set up conditions to keep Iran from getting WMD's for several years, and now has sold arms to Saudi Arabia. It's pretty clear that the US is playing on only one side.

So, to be fair, we should give Iran chemical weapons? Or missile technology so they can build and launch long(er) range missiles?

When you have thugs and bullies terrorizing the neighborhood, you don't teach the kiddies to sing kumbaya. You give them sticks and clubs and guns to fight back with. And call the cops. Oh wait...

 

[KingOrfeo]

Why are we arming SA? They don't need heavy equipment to fight terrorism -- but they do to intervene in Yemen, and so far their intervention has been anything but beneficial.

 

[HisArpy]

Why are we arming SA? They don't need heavy equipment to fight terrorism -- but they do to intervene in Yemen, and so far their intervention has been anything but beneficial.

OBAMA fucked up Yemen. There can be no dispute on that point. The Saudi's, with help, are trying to stabilize it again with a peaceful government. Until that gets sorted out, any "intervention in Yemen" can be assigned as aggression or defensive. Only the victor(s) will get to write which version goes into the history books.

At this point it is premature to label it other than a mess caused by Obama.

 

[Sean]

OBAMA fucked up Yemen. There can be no dispute on that point. The Saudi's, with help, are trying to stabilize it again with a peaceful government. Until that gets sorted out, any "intervention in Yemen" can be assigned as aggression or defensive. Only the victor(s) will get to write which version goes into the history books.

At this point it is premature to label it other than a mess caused by Obama.

ROTFL. Oh dear lord. Tim gets his middle east news from Alex Jones.

 

[Wrong Element]

...and gives the Kingdom more incentive to keep providing us with intelligence on terrorist organizations.

I'll keep that in mind the next time the Pentagon blows up.

 

[KingOrfeo]

OBAMA fucked up Yemen.

How? Didn't he pretty much limit intervention to drone strikes?

The Saudi's, with help, are trying to stabilize it again with a peaceful government.

Hasn't worked out well so far.

The war has received widespread criticism and had a dramatic worsening effect on the humanitarian situation, that reached the level of a "humanitarian disaster"[133] or "humanitarian catastrophe".[134][135][136] After the Saudi-led coalition declared the entire Saada Governorate a military target, the UN's Humanitarian Coordinator for Yemen and Human Rights Watch said that air strikes by the Saudi-led coalition on Saada city in Yemen were in breach of international law.[137][138] On 1 July UN declared for Yemen a "level-three" emergency – the highest UN emergency level – for a period of six months.[139][140] Human rights groups repeatedly blamed the Saudi-led military coalition for killing civilians and destroying health centers and other infrastructure with airstrikes.[141] The de facto blockade left 78% (20 million) of the Yemeni population in urgent need of food, water and medical aid. Aid ships are allowed, but the bulk of commercial shipping, on which the country relies, is blocked.[142] In one occasion, coalition jets prevented an Iranian Red Crescent plane from landing by bombing Sana'a International Airport's (SIA) runway, which blocked aid delivery via air.[143] As of 10 December, more than 2,500,000 people had been internally displaced by the fighting.[144] Many countries evacuated more than 23,000 foreign citizens from Yemen.[145][146][147] More than 1,000,000 people fled Yemen for Saudi Arabia,[148] Djibouti, Somalia, Ethiopia, Sudan and Oman.[147]

Not an effort America should be enabling.

 

[Lunation]

We should stop selling fucking weapons to the middle east, Saudi Arabia especially. And both Obama and Trump are terrible on that point.

And no, I don't think it's exclusively about arms sales (although those are lucrative) - it's about keeping the Saudis happy because our oil business is so intertwined with them. Which, by the way, is the same reason we see Iran as a terrorist state and not Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia hates Iran so we hate Iran. Which isn't to say Iran is good. Both Saudi Arabia and Iran are backwards, bloodthirsty theocracies that prove why a conservative, religious fundamental government is a bad idea.

 

[Sean]

We should stop selling fucking weapons to the middle east, Saudi Arabia especially. And both Obama and Trump are terrible on that point.

And no, I don't think it's exclusively about arms sales (although those are lucrative) - it's about keeping the Saudis happy because our oil business is so intertwined with them. Which, by the way, is the same reason we see Iran as a terrorist state and not Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia hates Iran so we hate Iran. Which isn't to say Iran is good. Both Saudi Arabia and Iran are backwards, bloodthirsty theocracies that prove why a conservative, religious fundamental government is a bad idea.

Iran just re-elected a reformist, relatively pro-west moderniser as president. Saudi beheads women for driving a car.

 

[Lunation]

Iran just re-elected a reformist, relatively pro-west moderniser as president. Saudi beheads women for driving a car.

I'm not going to pretend to be intimately familiar with Iran's societal development. Nor am I going to say they're worse than Saudi Arabia, who is clearly one of the largest supporters of terror in the world.

But I am decently certain Iran has a long way to go before we start praising them on human rights.

Really, in my opinion, we should just be nowhere near the whole mess.

 

[Sean]

I'm not going to pretend to be intimately familiar with Iran's societal development. Nor am I going to say they're worse than Saudi Arabia, who is clearly one of the largest supporters of terror in the world.

But I am decently certain Iran has a long way to go before we start praising them on human rights.

Really, in my opinion, we should just be nowhere near the whole mess.

ISIS uses Saudi textbooks in their "schools".