You cannot have your grandfathers' jobs

KingOrfeo

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There was a time in America -- from about the end of WWII to the mid-'70s -- when a white man, at least, if he had no higher education or specialized skills but was willing and able to work hard, could always find a good job and earn a comfortable living -- in a factory, in a mine, on a farm, in a small business, etc. He could even think of himself as middle-class -- it was the first time in American history a blue-collar worker could earn a middle-class income and benefits.

And the last. Those times are gone and they are not coming back. No one has the power to bring them back. Trump's protectionism won't do it; offshoring and outsourcing are only a minor part of the problem.

Working-class Americans have to confront this fact about which Trump consistently deceived them (and possibly himself): You cannot have your grandfathers' jobs. Some of you will find such jobs, some such jobs do still exist, but most of you won't. That's not the government's fault, it is not the Dems' or liberals' fault, it is not the Pubs' or conservatives' fault, it is not foreigners' or immigrants' fault; it is a result of technological progress, and of family farming losing ground to agribiz, and mom-and-pop stores losing ground to big-box stores, and so on. It's not really the corporations' fault either, they could hardly do otherwise than they have done if they wanted to stay in business. Automation and agribiz and big-box retail happen because they are more efficient and profitable than what came before -- mainly because they require fewer workers to produce the same output -- and in a capitalist economy, whatever is more efficient and profitable will be done. A totalitarian Communist government might make a policy decision not to update its factories, because it wants to keep everyone employed and busy. But in a capitalist economy, any industrial corporation that fails to automate as soon as automation becomes available will go out of business, because it still employs a large expensive workforce, and therefore cannot bring its goods to market as cheaply as its automated competitors.

The only way forward for the working class is to retrain for the kinds of well-paying jobs now most abundantly available, that is, those requiring some technical knowledge or skills, or higher education. You can do that, or you can spend the rest of your life as a Wal-mart greeter.
 
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Trump, who regularly decries the loss of American manufacturing jobs, tends to emphasize trade in goods and ignore trade in services. A $24.6 billion U.S. surplus with Canada in the trade of services, including tourism and software, outweighed a $16.5 billion deficit in the trade of goods, including autos and oil.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/trump-fact-check-1.4111913

*times change, this is not our grandfather's world, in their time they looked back when the service industry was almost non-existent, resources and agriculture ruled, Canada with it's resources is about the only major developed country with an economy not almost totally dependent on the service industry as it's major industry*

*Trump is an old guy living in the past and remembering the 'better' times*
 
And the last. Those times are gone and they are not coming back.

Well with the government preventing them from existing of course not.

No one has the power to bring them back.

Repeal a number of protectionist, market mongering, bullshit "regulations" and a number of them would.

Shit just quit bogarting licensing/permits for the connected D's and R's.....it would at this point send some rather sizable ripples into the economic pond if these markets were simply opened up.

That's not the government's fault

Not always, but it is in quite a few industrial sectors. Namely parma, energy, defense, HC and agriculture.
 
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None of that does anything to reduce technological unemployment.

Not all of it but it would help.

When you allow more than 8 lawn care companies (just as an example) in town it allows poor people to go under cut those price gouging mother fuckers who got together and paid some scum bag pol to "regulate" the lawn care industry into these 8 assholes pockets.

Also all the fuckin' prohibition we have is god damn evil anti-American socialist bullshit.

If you meet safety regs, the government should not be allowed to stop you from doing any bidniz you want.
 
Not all of it but it would help.

Here's what would help. Robert Reich writes:

California is now the capital of liberal America. Along with its neighbors Oregon and Washington, it will be a nation within the nation starting in January when the federal government goes dark.

In sharp contrast to much of the rest of the nation, Californians preferred Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump by a 2-to-1 margin. They also voted to extend a state tax surcharge on the wealthy, and adopt local housing and transportation measures along with a slew of local tax increases and bond proposals.

In other words, California is the opposite of Trumpland.

The differences go even deeper. For years, conservatives have been saying that a healthy economy depends on low taxes, few regulations, and low wages.

Are conservatives right? At the one end of the scale are Kansas and Texas, with among the nation’s lowest taxes, least regulations, and lowest wages.

At the other end is California, with among the nation’s highest taxes, especially on the wealthy; toughest regulations, particularly when it comes to the environment; most ambitious healthcare system, that insures more than 12 million poor Californians, in partnership with Medicaid; and high wages.

So according to conservative doctrine, Kansas and Texas ought to be booming, and California ought to be in the pits.

Actually, it’s just the opposite.

For several years, Kansas’s rate of economic growth has been the worst in the nation. Last year its economy actually shrank.

Texas hasn’t been doing all that much better. Its rate of job growth has been below the national average. Retail sales are way down. The value of Texas exports has been dropping.

But what about so-called over-taxed, over-regulated, high-wage California?

California leads the nation in the rate of economic growth — more than twice the national average. If it were a separate nation it would now be the sixth largest economy in the world. Its population has surged to 39 million (up 5 percent since 2010).

California is home to the nation’s fastest-growing and most innovative industries – entertainment and high tech. It incubates more startups than anywhere else in the world.

In other words, conservatives have it exactly backwards.

Why are Kansas and Texas doing so badly, and California so well?

For one thing, taxes enable states to invest their people. The University of California is the best system of public higher education in America. Add in the state’s network of community colleges, state colleges, research institutions, and you have an unparalleled source of research, and powerful engine of upward mobility.

Kansas and Texas haven’t been investing nearly to the same extent.

California also provides services to a diverse population, including a large percentage of immigrants. Donald Trump to the contrary, such diversity is a huge plus. Both Hollywood and Silicon Valley have thrived on the ideas and energies of new immigrants.

Meanwhile, California’s regulations protect the public health and the state’s natural beauty, which also draws people to the state – including talented people who could settle anywhere.

Wages are high in California because the economy is growing so fast employers have to pay more for workers. That’s not a bad thing. After all, the goal isn’t just growth. It’s a high standard of living.

In fairness, Texas’s problems are also linked to the oil bust. But that’s really no excuse because Texas has failed to diversify its economy. Here again, it hasn’t made adequate investments.

California is far from perfect. A housing shortage has driven rents and home prices into the stratosphere. Roads are clogged. Its public schools used to be the best in the nation but are now among the worst – largely because of a proposition approved by voters in 1978 that’s strangled local school financing. Much more needs to be done.

But overall, the contrast is clear. Economic success depends on tax revenues that go into public investments, and regulations that protect the environment and public health. And true economic success results in high wages.

I’m not sure how Trumpland and California will coexist in coming years. I’m already hearing murmurs of secession by Golden Staters, and of federal intrusions by the incipient Trump administration.

But so far, California gives lie to the conservative dictum that low taxes, few regulations, and low wages are the keys economic success. Trumpland should take note.
 
Well with the government preventing them from existing of course not.

You are probably one of those crazy people who think it's OK to allow someone to braid hair without 500 hours of state-mandated instruction.
 
Here's[/url] what would help. Robert Reich writes:

Oh yea, make the rest of the county unlivable expensive, that would help a ton :rolleyes:

Robert Reich apparently doesn't realize most of the county can't afford to live in CA.

Fuck, most of CA can't afford CA LOL

If you want to live in CA you better have your fuckin' money game UP or you're going to be living in a shit shack that's got you house poor for the rest of your life.

Also it's one of the worst places to retire....because it's fucking expensive at everything.
 
Oh yea, make the rest of the county unlivable expensive, that would help a ton :rolleyes:

Robert Reich apparently doesn't realize most of the county can't afford to live in CA.

But the people who do live there can. Most of the country can't afford to be CA, but could if they did as CA does, and then the people of Kansas or Texas could afford to remain where they are while being more prosperous -- local prices and taxes would be higher, but so would their own incomes, so it wouldn't matter. The California approach produces prosperity, the Kansas-Texas approach does not.
 
But the people who do live there can. Most of the country can't afford to be CA, but could if they did as CA does, and then the people of Kansas or Texas could afford to remain where they are while being more prosperous -- local prices and taxes would be higher, but so would their own incomes, so it wouldn't matter. The California approach produces prosperity, the Kansas-Texas approach does not.

Unless you live here, you (and Mr. Reich) have no idea how bad it is here. Employers have to pay high wages because the tax rate and cost of living are excessively high.

What's worse, the taxes aren't being used to maintain the State. Crumbling roads, bridges, aquaducts, dams, schools, and so on are all being ummaintained. Because those in power spend the money intended for those things on bread and circuses for electoral votes from those dependent on the gifts being given out.

I could go just about anywhere in the USA and take a 50% cut in pay and live better than I do here. My property taxes would be 1/3. It didn't used to be this way when the R's were in control of the State. After the D's came in with their supermajority, things went to shit real fast. And it's not getting any better, they just voted in a tax hike in just about every area possible. Yet I still see CalTrans (California Dept of Transportation) trucks full of workers driving over the potholes in the freeway on the way to spend 5 hours scrubbing grafitti by hand with brushes and cleanser.

The socialist State of California is a financial and social cesspit. Within 5 years it will be totally bankrupt from unfunded liabilities and a credit rating of 0. I would NOT, ABSOLUTELY NEVER, buy bonds issued by the State of California at this point. They are junk bonds at best. And we ain't even to the really bad part yet. A Venezuela style meltdown is coming.
 
i don't want to do my grandfather's job!

no way am I fucking grandma :mad:
 
I willingly let my grandfather do that to me, many times over the years, just like that, the only difference was, he had a scraggly beard and a big fat belly. :rose:

Unexpected, off-the-hook lust-driven posts like this one in threads such as these is what makes Lit awesome. :D
 
I willingly let my grandfather do that to me, many times over the years, just like that, the only difference was, he had a scraggly beard and a big fat belly. :rose:

Damn bitch I would love to see your grandfather doing you like that, do you have at least one photo of it?
 
But the people who do live there can.

Not as many as other places. We got a lot of poverty here.

Most of the country can't afford to be CA, but could if they did as CA does,

No they couldn't. CA's wealth is far more dependent upon it's location than it's politics. No amount of socialism will change the fact that people are happy to pay to live in a fantastic climate with some of the best scenery the country has to offer.

My ranch in N. Central TX wouldn't cost more than 1/10th what I paid for my spot here on the north coast. It's not because the regulations provided me such a shit hot house either, it was a fixer upper dump when I got it. But the property is right, and I pay the price because I like living in a magical forest with snow capped mountains looming in the background and all the amazing shit that comes with this very specific and special bio region.


and then the people of Kansas or Texas could afford to remain where they are while being more prosperous

No....The people of Texas would not be more prosperous. They will only ever rival CA's wealth if the strike some hidden super reserve of oil.

- local prices and taxes would be higher, but so would their own incomes, so it wouldn't matter.

Only the elites incomes would get bigger....the poor would get fucked.

Busing the poor/junkies out to Midland/Odessa kinda "Progressi

The California approach produces prosperity, the Kansas-Texas approach does not.

Texas is quite prosperous, I made quite a bit of money there.

The reason I moved to CA was because it's better looking and weed.

If you want to suck on a state titty CA is a good one....super rich or super poor.

If your working class or an aspiring entrepreneur looking for a fair shot CA is a nightmare of a place to try and get anything up and running.

Texas is about as easy as getting off your ass and just doing it. But they really....really really really hate pot there. It's ugly, hostile, dirty, bullshit hot and fuck fire ants, did I mention how bullshit hot it is there? Yea fuck that...I'm about that PNW life. But I love TX gun laws and the live music factor in Austin is hard to beat.

So it's really a matter of what you're looking for in a state and what's really important in your life.

Here is my question for you KO.

Why must you try and shove CA's way down Texas throat? Why can't you let them do their thing? :confused:
 
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My Grandfather...the only one I ever knew...Was a carpenter/handy/repair man.

My father worked his last seventeen years where I do...and have for the last forty three years.

We were doing really good until a major worldwide company bought us, striped all the money and assets off, closed down several divisions and moved our business to other countries. Started buying cheaper parts and material from china and other countries.

So five thousand plus people here in the USA lost their Jobs a few hundred in Canada,England and sundry other countries.

Their goal seems to be two fold. Money naturally, but more importantly moving jobs and businesses OUT of the USA and into other countries with priority given to their friends and buddies in Europe.

Corporate piracy is alive and well.
 
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My Grandfather...the only one I ever knew...Was a carpenter/handy/repair man.

My father worked his last seventeen years where I do...and have for the last forty three years.

We were doing really good until a major worldwide company bought us, striped all the money and assets off, closed down several divisions and moved our business to other countries. Started buying cheaper parts and material from china and other countries.

So five thousand plus people here in the USA lost their Jobs a few hundred in Canada,England and sundry other countries.

Their goal seems to be two fold. Money naturally, but more importantly moving jobs and businesses OUT of the USA and into other countries with priority given to their friends and buddies in Europe.

Corporate piracy is alive and well.

Sounds a bit like my ex-father-in-law. He scandalized his family by *gasp* changing jobs four years out of college (he left IBM, for Gawd's sake!!) to take a job in the nascent "plastics" industry (shades of Dustin Hoffman in The Graduate!). He then worked 36 years for his next company, the ultimate "company man". He routinely harangued his children on the need to stay with ONE company.

Two years before retirement, his corporation got bought and gutted by corporate raider Victor Posner. Retirement fund? Gone. Job security? Gone. Employment? Gone.
 
I willingly let my grandfather do that to me, many times over the years, just like that, the only difference was, he had a scraggly beard and a big fat belly. :rose:

Damn bitch I would love to see your grandfather doing you like that, do you have at least one photo of it?

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/foxkitsune/877eb61b-1623-4aee-b748-41fac192abdb_zpsximc2sxi.gif

You've restored my faith in Lit. After reading all those nasty scat posts this is like Pablo Neruda. Fucking beautiful.
 
Knowing the Lit, I should have known better than to put "grandfather" in the thread title. :(
 
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