Transgenders and suicide

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Ishmael]

Every citizen is a concern. And it's a reason to be concerned but that duicide rate is high does not equate with it being 'wrong'.

I couldn't disagree more. That notion is the path to tyranny.....divide et imperum. No government provides anything without asking for something in return. Money, behavior, whatever.

The role of government is to serve the citizenry in general, not each individual or some sub-group (and in that we have strayed greatly). Also to provide a framework of laws and justice that are applied without regard to race, creed, or social standing. (We, the US, has remiss in that context in the past. We are starting to get our act together.....finally.)

The government isn't your mommy or daddy. It isn't there to protect you from the consequences of your own bad decisions or from being shunned by some other group or individual unless they purposely cause you physical or financial harm. In that respect the individual has the ability to seek redress through the courts, either civil or criminal.

The fact that there is an issue with transgender suicide rates would tend to indicate that the mental issues are a little more serious than casual individual idiosyncrasies, such as narcissism. If you want to discount the mental health issues as a source of the problem then what direction are you going to point your finger? At the rest of the population as a whole? And exactly how are you going to legislate that away without creating a new, and most likely a more severe, problem?

It is also a fact that should every transgender in the nation, or the world for that matter, disappear tomorrow neither the fate of the nation nor the human race would be in jeopardy. (I'm certain some asshole is going to read that as a position I advocate. I don't but I can't control the absurd imagination of others.) The point here being that as a group they do not fulfill a critical niche regarding the advancement of civilization. Those critical path niche's are almost always defined by what an individual does, writer, poet, engineer, farmer, doctor, etc., NOT by an individuals sexual orientation or identification.

Ishmael

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

I couldn't disagree more. That notion is the path to tyranny.....divide et imperum. No government provides anything without asking for something in return. Money, behavior, whatever.

The role of government is to serve the citizenry in general, not each individual or some sub-group (and in that we have strayed greatly). Also to provide a framework of laws and justice that are applied without regard to race, creed, or social standing. (We, the US, has remiss in that context in the past. We are starting to get our act together.....finally.)

The government isn't your mommy or daddy. It isn't there to protect you from the consequences of your own bad decisions or from being shunned by some other group or individual unless they purposely cause you physical or financial harm. In that respect the individual has the ability to seek redress through the courts, either civil or criminal.

The fact that there is an issue with transgender suicide rates would tend to indicate that the mental issues are a little more serious than casual individual idiosyncrasies, such as narcissism. If you want to discount the mental health issues as a source of the problem then what direction are you going to point your finger? At the rest of the population as a whole? And exactly how are you going to legislate that away without creating a new, and most likely a more severe, problem?

It is also a fact that should every transgender in the nation, or the world for that matter, disappear tomorrow neither the fate of the nation nor the human race would be in jeopardy. (I'm certain some asshole is going to read that as a position I advocate. I don't but I can't control the absurd imagination of others.) The point here being that as a group they do not fulfill a critical niche regarding the advancement of civilization. Those critical path niche's are almost always defined by what an individual does, writer, poet, engineer, farmer, doctor, etc., NOT by an individuals sexual orientation or identification.

Ishmael

There's no mental health issues to discount because we've already established that being trans is not a mental health issue.

You've developed a nice little argument where you assign people into a sub-group and then say that sub-groups shouldn't be catered to.

 

[hashtag46]

Something Lady Funk has asked several times in the past. Why is transgenderism being pushed so heavily?

I just came up with a hypothesis.

The endocrine system (controls hormones, among other things) is one of the most complex, confusing and difficult to grasp systems in human biology. There's also a lot of things we don't know about the human endocrine system.

So, maybe pushing transgenderism, and normalizing hormone therapy is a way to test life extending/anti-aging drugs on human subjects?

The history of medicine is not pretty. Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans did horrible, inhumane things. They needed bodies to dissect. Vivisection was a thing, it was documented.

At first glance your hypothesis seemed wacky, but it actually makes sense.

There's something very odd about the manner in which they took such a small, almost invisible minority group and keep pushing it into the headlines.
-- From the national toilet movement (which could have been so easily resolved if they added a single toilet for those who feel uncomfortable with shared restrooms) to teaching kids in primary school about transgenderism.

There must be a different agenda to it all, like desensitising the population to things that one would normally find to be off the grid.

 

[Parminderjeet]

At first glance your hypothesis seemed wacky, but it actually makes sense.

There's something very odd about the manner in which they took such a small, almost invisible minority group and keep pushing it into the headlines.
-- From the national toilet movement (which could have been so easily resolved if they added a single toilet for those who feel uncomfortable with shared restrooms) to teaching kids in primary school about transgenderism.

There must be a different agenda to it all, like desensitising the population to things that one would normally find to be off the grid.

Your kind are more acceptable nowdays, this is true. Well, the tranny part not the paki part and the farting makes it worse.

 

[Ishmael]

There's no mental health issues to discount because we've already established that being trans is not a mental health issue.

You've developed a nice little argument where you assign people into a sub-group and then say that sub-groups shouldn't be catered to.

There is NO "we" that has established anything. That the problem exists at all indicates that there IS a mental health issue, and not a trivial one at that.

So you, along with the APA, can agree that there is no problem, a form of denial. And if that is the case, why in the hell are we even discussing it?

Nothing to see here, move along.

Ishmael

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

There is NO "we" that has established anything. That the problem exists at all indicates that there IS a mental health issue, and not a trivial one at that.

So you, along with the APA, can agree that there is no problem, a form of denial. And if that is the case, why in the hell are we even discussing it?

Nothing to see here, move along.

Ishmael

There is no we because you're afraid to discuss it. i understand that, if I had adopted an indefensible position I'd be afraid to discuss it too.

This is the second time I'm asking, what kind of proof do you have that being trans is a mental health issue. The last time I asked for proof you simply told the board your personal feelings on the topic with nothing to back it up.

I agree, you have no legitimate point and you're going to run scared from this conversation because you don't have a lick a proof. You might make some unwarranted personal attacks as you leave with your tail tucked, and AJ may come in to launch some personal attacks too.

Do you have anything in the way of proof that being trans is a mental health issue?

 

[hashtag46]

1.I agree with SgtSpiderman, that the focus shouldn't be on trying to make transgenders "change their mind" about their gender identity, so to speak.
-- In saying that, too many people (with personality disorders, psychoses and so on) were misdiagnosed as being transgenders. And as a consequence received irreversible and invasive treatment. What a disaster!



2.But I agree with Ish that APA shouldn't have taken it out of the "disorders" category.

Even for the mere fact that accepting that you're transgender, equals surgery and physically harmful hormonal treatment.

Moreover, look how lightly the uninformed popullation are now taking the issue, and statistics show that more and more impressionable kids are being referred to mental health professionals, under the impression that they are transgender.
APA just opened Pandora's box of harmful nonsense.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

There's no mental health issues to discount because we've already established that being trans is not a mental health issue.

No one has established that. We've only established that health insurance isn't required to pay for treatment.

 

[Rightguide]

There's no mental health issues to discount because we've already established that being trans is not a mental health issue.

You've developed a nice little argument where you assign people into a sub-group and then say that sub-groups shouldn't be catered to.

Maybe you should learn how to read for comprehension. It is a mental illness.

 

[Ishmael]

There is no we because you're afraid to discuss it. i understand that, if I had adopted an indefensible position I'd be afraid to discuss it too.

This is the second time I'm asking, what kind of proof do you have that being trans is a mental health issue. The last time I asked for proof you simply told the board your personal feelings on the topic with nothing to back it up.

I agree, you have no legitimate point and you're going to run scared from this conversation because you don't have a lick a proof. You might make some unwarranted personal attacks as you leave with your tail tucked, and AJ may come in to launch some personal attacks too.

Do you have anything in the way of proof that being trans is a mental health issue?

Of course the fact that I AM discussing it, and before your intervention, is of no consequence at all. Quite frankly you're the one that's fearful of discussion. You state opinion, and someone elses at that, as fact. And when questioned as to the validity of that 'opinion' you fall back on accusations. And when that fails I expect you to fall back on your tactic of employing the "Socratic method" even when what you are questioning flies in the face of observed reality. While Socrates did question damn near everything, he didn't question the reality of gravity and such.

So I repeat myself again, if there is NO problem according to you and the APA, why is anyone discussing the reality of the statistics?

Ishmael

 

[OldJourno]

There's no mental health issues to discount because we've already established that being trans is not a mental health issue.

You've developed a nice little argument where you assign people into a sub-group and then say that sub-groups shouldn't be catered to.

Almost 50 percent of transgenders have attempted suicide but you've established that being trans is not a mental health issue.
Good to know.

 

[Parminderjeet]

I think hashtag/ query need to add more to this conversation as he is the only trans person who has "come out" to this community.

 

[GiaCat]

Gender identity is a powerful thing

 

[Hard_Rom]

Almost 50 percent of transgenders have attempted suicide but you've established that being trans is not a mental health issue.
Good to know.

Being trans is not a mental health issue you stupid bigoted cunt. The lack of acceptance and the discrimination they get heaped on them by bigoted cunts like you it what twist them up inside, you bigoted stupid cunt! TG folk try to commit suicide because of stupid fucks like you! If we could rid the world of folk like you it would be a much happier and loving place. Stupid fucking cunt!

 

[~Haze~]

Gotta be pretty confusing. Male or female, female or male. Plus most of this comes about during puberty when suicide rates seem to spike. Top it off with a definite visible prejudice to TG from a good part of society. I'm not surprised that their attempted suicide rate is so high.

At 12 is when puberty kicks in. Sexual identity will rear it's head. If your kid at 12 comes to you and says they are TG support them or risk losing them.

It develops and come out during puberty because of the rush of hormones but it can actually start s in the womb.

When I was I high school that gender was determined by the fertilizing sperm cell. Either XX for female or XY for male. That's not always the case. Embryos can be immune or show strong resistance to androgens and be genetic males but norm looking physically like females, acting like females, thinking they're females but really genetic males. Usually even with testes inside, just undescended.

The brain develops differently the womb for male and females. So a fetus might develop male organs but female brain characteristics. It's a complicated issue and a very interesting one.

 

[Debbie]

Its not complex at all. Your choice is male or female.

It is complex.

If it was just a matter of choice I think most transgender people would happily avoid discrimination and sometimes hatred and try and ignore what their brain
and body is telling them about their assigned birth gender not being correct.

I choose to love and collect books and not shoes.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Something Lady Funk has asked several times in the past. Why is transgenderism being pushed so heavily?

I just came up with a hypothesis.

The endocrine system (controls hormones, among other things) is one of the most complex, confusing and difficult to grasp systems in human biology. There's also a lot of things we don't know about the human endocrine system.

So, maybe pushing transgenderism, and normalizing hormone therapy is a way to test life extending/anti-aging drugs on human subjects?

The history of medicine is not pretty. Ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans did horrible, inhumane things. They needed bodies to dissect. Vivisection was a thing, it was documented.

Naaah. The problem is an old one: Ma had her heart set on a girl and got a boy. The child then gets years of crap from Ma, like your attitude about Trump, HILLARYS THE REAL PRESIDENT! Cept Donald don't lose sleep over what would make you love him. Plenty of boys lose sleep to gain Ma's love.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

It is complex.

If it was just a matter of choice I think most transgender people would happily avoid discrimination and sometimes hatred and try and ignore what their brain
and body is telling them about their assigned birth gender not being correct.

I choose to love and collect books and not shoes.

Nonsense.

My onions don't wanna be petunias. Ma lets junior know male is not OK each breath he takes till he puts on a dress.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Google is awash in photos of boys dressed as girls. Such was common a century ago when sick moms wanted girl babies not boy babies. My ma tried it and my response was FUCK YOU MA.

 

[colddiesel]

Being trans is not a mental health issue you stupid bigoted cunt. The lack of acceptance and the discrimination they get heaped on them by bigoted cunts like you it what twist them up inside, you bigoted stupid cunt! TG folk try to commit suicide because of stupid fucks like you! If we could rid the world of folk like you it would be a much happier and loving place. Stupid fucking cunt!

So are you suggesting "(stupid, bigoted, fucking, - insert adjective of choice) cunts" should commit suicide/be got rid of; whereas nice put upon transgenders should be cuddled and counseled?

Logical mebbe not.

 

[hashtag46]

So are you suggesting "(stupid, bigoted, fucking, - insert adjective of choice) cunts" should commit suicide/be got rid of; whereas nice put upon transgenders should be cuddled and counseled?

Logical mebbe not.

Don't take him seriously.

He's playing the "I hate biggots" card because he's trying to get cyberlaid by the kool chicks who post in the Blurt Thread.

Moreover, like many other GB racists and biggots hunters , our dear HardRom is a bigot (aka a xenophobe) himself. For example, he thinks that most female Eastern European immigrants to Canada are hoores.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Well said Ish, in fact, so well said that there had to be a reaction.

There's no mental health issues to discount because we've already established that being trans is not a mental health issue.

You've developed a nice little argument where you assign people into a sub-group and then say that sub-groups shouldn't be catered to.

There is no conclusive evidence that this is not a mental illness especially in light of the high suicide rate. Most people not in a state of mental distress do not do the Hernandez...






Too soon?

 

[hashtag46]

Well said Ish, in fact, so well said that there had to be a reaction.

There is no conclusive evidence that this is not a mental illness especially in light of the high suicide rate. Most people not in a state of mental distress do not do the Hernandez...



Too soon?

Part of the definition of mental disorder includes "something that causes impairment, including distress to the individual".

Even if society will become more tolerant towards them, it's gotta be hard realizing that you're different than the majority of people. I don't think they would be happy, go lucky well adjusted individuals if society accepted them.

So yes, that's one of the reasons why I think it should have stayed in the "mental disorders" category. Even if I don't think they are "crazy" as some people see them.

And people are right: part of the suicidality is due to society's negative attitude and the stigma. But there are other causes too: the above, and let's not forget about the side effects of hormonal treatment or castration.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I have to agree...


... but not that last part.