This is about Politics:

[MoonlightandRoses]

This is about politics, unlike the Goggle Doodle which was about people getting along.

I am opposed to the “America First” idea for the same reason that I am opposed to any idea that attempts to put any nation, race, gender, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation first that is any one above all others.

It is the basic concept that one such group is put first among all the others that has caused the major problems we see in history. Putting men first over women resulted in women not having the right to vote; one race over another resulted in slavery and racial intolerance; one nationality over another resulted in the Sound World War and most if not all wars; one religious or ethnic group over another resulted in the holocaust and the strife and the wars currently going on in the Middle East and I feel that one notion of sexuality has limited what it means to be human.

Putting America first is not the solution, but part of the problem.

I was born in the USA and I am a citizen of the USA.

Moonlight and Roses (Tom),

 

[Hard_Rom]

There is no such thing as a model or ideal Canadian. What could be more absurd than the concept of an "all Canadian" boy or girl? A society which emphasizes uniformity is one which creates intolerance and hate.

Pierre Trudeau

 

[Chris_Michael]

The problem is not that we're putting our country first. It's that we're the first country to stick our noses in other countries' business.

 

[MoonlightandRoses]

Hard Rom, thank you for your contribution.

Chris, putting any group first is the cause of most if not all of the major problems of history.

Moonlight and Roses,

 

[oggbashan]

The problem is not that we're putting our country first. It's that we're the first country to stick our noses in other countries' business.

Maybe now the US does that. In the past, in no particular order and an incomplete list:

Greece; Turkey; Spain, France, Germany, Austria; The Netherlands, Sweden; Portugal; Belgium; Russia; China; Japan; Italy; and of course the British Empire...

 

[Chris_Michael]

Maybe now the US does that. In the past, in no particular order and an incomplete list:

Greece; Turkey; Spain, France, Germany, Austria; The Netherlands, Sweden; Portugal; Belgium; Russia; China; Japan; Italy; and of course the British Empire...

Okay, I concede. That is true.

-----------

However, I just want to point out that this not *just* about politics. Humans have evolved over millions of years with traits that aren't necessarily compatible with civilization. Look at how fast technology is evolving. Our bodies literally are not tuned to spends hours each day... playing videogames, though it should. Ha

Anyway, at the end of the day, this may partially be about politics but it's also biological.

 

[MoonlightandRoses]

Chris, what has happened in the past is that putting one group first results in wars, conflicts and oppression. There is no reason that will not again be the result. To paraphrase George Santayana” People who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. And to paraphrase Albert Einstein “Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is not realistic.”

Tom,

 

[Chris_Michael]

Chris, what has happened in the past is that putting one group first results in wars, conflicts and oppression. There is no reason that will not again be the result. To paraphrase George Santayana” People who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. And to paraphrase Albert Einstein “Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is not realistic.”

Tom,

All I'm saying is that human beings are not compatible with civilization. We went from Nomads to modern human beings in several thousand years, maybe 4-6 thousand. I don't know world history. But I do know biology... and that math doesn't add up.

We evolved over millions of years. That's a long ass time. Then suddenly, modern civilization happened... and when I say modern, I mean 10,000 years. We are literally at a disadvantage because our brains aren't wired to be giving and caring and welcoming to outside influences.

This is such a taboo topic that I'll be labeled xenophobic for even considering it. It's not even a discussion that is possible given our far left activists. That said, where do you think these problems like "xenophobia" come from? It traveled down the gene pool. Now, you may make some crazy claim that it's just a benign thing that is only now just playing a role in our existence, but that is complete horseshit.

And this is true for everybody on the fucking planet, not just the US citizens. This is true for countries in the East as well. We cannot take our culture and bring it to Asia and plant it in the ground expecting them to accept us. That's not how it works, and the argument that the US is a melting pot does not change the fact that the biological feature still exists.

I'm having to defend myself before I'm accused, which is sad. But I know exactly what some people are thinking as they're reading this. They're thinking, "Chris has an image of a white man evolving over time." No, that's not fucking it. Each country has their own set of values and their own culture, and they don't expect change.

So, some people will say that America has fucked with the Middle East and that they are fearful of us. And that is probably fucking true. I don't disagree with that. Not one bit. Some will argue, saying that we brought African people here as slaves. I know! I literally cannot do a thing about that. There is nothing I can do to solve that issue. But it also doesn't make the brain evolve at a faster pace.

You can make this case for any community in the world. Take the Kenyan children who have never seen a white person. They're literally amazed to see Caucasian skin. However, if the people are not tolerant of Caucasians, that doesn't make them racist. And it doesn't make them bad people, necessarily. I mean, they could end up being bad people... whatever... anyway...

I'm not arguing for racism or xenophobia. I'm just saying that our brains are wired a specific way because we needed to survive millions of years to get where we are, and outside influences were most likely not acceptable. That goes for every group of people, not just us. I have to keep reiterating that. When you take a melting pot, every person or group of people have their own tolerance and intolerance.

It is truly unfortunate. It really is, and I wish it weren't true. But that doesn't mean it's not reality. The only people who would argue that this isn't true are Christians, just because they believe in weird shit.

"Chris is racist. Oh my gawd... He's looking for attention! Oh my gawd!"

Are we really not capable of seeing reality for what it is? You can change how you act, but you cannot change history and you can't change the world. Just like the fact that I can't change the people who continuously remind me that I'm going to burn hell for all eternity just because I was born a "sinner." That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard yet for some reason, religion came along down the gene pool as well. And there's nothing I can do about that either...

So yeah, I forgot about the week thing until I was half way done typing this. So fuck it. I'm not looking for attention. I'm just making a point, which is true and people don't like true stuff. I'm sorry if you cannot deal with reality.

 

[urguyscott]

I can see the point some people on here are making. That the United States is a terrible country (unlike the Communists countries or the fake Islam countries of the Middle East that certainly don't put their "country or beliefs first" and want a one world rule and all people to be stamped out of the same mold.) How many nations do we have as colonies? How many fly our flag? And how many fly the Red Flag as a colony of China or Russia? Yes I can see your point. We are a bad people. Which means you are bad people. In the last two World Wars and the Cold War we fought to free other nations so they could put their people first and not be ruled by dictators. That was a terrible crime and we should fill shame and dishonor.

Trump says that our workers, our people should come first. Your view is that American companies and crooked unions that have shut down cities like Detroit are correct in their handling of business. That American workers have no right to be considered first by their government. I can see your point.

That protecting our people and their rights shows how selfish our government is when illegals, drug gangs and terrorists have more rights than our own. I see your point.

How can we allow a government that is suppose to be ruled by us put us first? What kind of fools is that for leaders?

Other countries have a right to kill and force people out of their homeland and enslave. We should not interfere with such wonderful polices as that. By saying that we agree they have a right to do such things to their own and to their neighbors than we are showing what a great weak country we are and that we too wish they would give us their enlighten policy. I see your point.

No our people should never be put first by their government. That would be freedom. Better slave than free. I see your point.

 

[MoonlightandRoses]

Chris and Urguscott, I don’t who you are addressing. It does not seem to be me since my first post to this thread was:

“I am opposed to the “America First” idea for the same reason that I am opposed to any idea that attempts to put any nation, race, gender, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation first that is any one above all others.

“It is the basic concept that one such group is put first among all the others that has caused the major problems we see in history. Putting men first over women resulted in women not having the right to vote; one race over another resulted in slavery and racial intolerance; one nationality over another resulted in the Sound World War and most if not all wars; one religious or ethnic group over another resulted in the holocaust and the strife and the wars currently going on in the Middle East and I feel that one notion of sexuality has limited what it means to be human.

“Putting America first is not the solution, but part of the problem.”

Urguscott, it doesn’t seem like you even read my first post.

I am not going to reply to either of you again unless you clearly refer to my first post.

Tom,

 

[JackLuis]

Sorry to come in late to this convo, I was five Days in Vegas and away form the TV, Net and completely out of the loop.

I think Chris has a point, but it's not genetic, it is that we are cognizant of our mortality, and do what's best for our survival. "Save your own ass first" might be a prime directive.

So we see cases of King Leopold raping the Congo, Spain's hold on the Philippines,The British Raj, South Carolina's view of Chattel Slavery, In every case the Politics are governed by economic factors, and that's Politics in a nut shell.

So we see the Trumpanzies divvy up the budget and add Billions to the debt, just as the Bushes, Clinton, Obama and even St. Ronnie the Gipper! All the regimes have had their turn on the teat.

The issue is Ethical, Civilized behavior. There is a rub because how Ethical can you be, a lowly mortal (Person) when it your own rice bowel that is at risk?

Likewise, how tolerant of the corruption that skims off 80% for the 1% should the Public be? Just when do we declare Pitch Fork Season on Washington? Would a packed Court and a captive Government in the hands of a criminal organization be adequate inventive?

If We, The People, want a thing to be, it is possible. See what happened when the Pundants kept stroking the "Trump has no chance" against the Democratic Organization bolstered by countless "Political Consultants" who all agreed Princess Hillary was the best , the most qualified, but she lacked the Heartlands support, Them, The People said "Hold on, Hillary, Hell NO!"

So Politics is complicated unless you eliminate the Bullshit and get down to Who gets What, from Whom. Debit and Credit, Interest and Overhead, Econ 101 or 666.

 

[EternalFantasies]

Okay, I concede. That is true.

-----------

However, I just want to point out that this not *just* about politics. Humans have evolved over millions of years with traits that aren't necessarily compatible with civilization. Look at how fast technology is evolving. Our bodies literally are not tuned to spends hours each day... playing videogames, though it should. Ha

Anyway, at the end of the day, this may partially be about politics but it's also biological.

I'm not certain what you mean here, but if you mean to organize ourselves in way that may not be compatible with our innate way of being, needs and wants?

Yea, well, I suppose an example is if at some point we kept feeling grief over a loss (offspring, loved, property, etc), and decided: ok look, I don't do this to you, and you don't do this to me. If anyone does, we agree to impose a consequence, in an effort towards deterrence.

if i have something you want, and you the inverse, let's agree how to find agreeable solutions to both, so we can avoid the grief part.

Fitting ourselves, or evolving ourselves into a 'way' of dealing with each other, or 'civilization'. and our genes do adapt, especially to things we like, or need.

All I'm saying is that human beings are not compatible with civilization. We went from Nomads to modern human beings in several thousand years, maybe 4-6 thousand. I don't know world history. But I do know biology... and that math doesn't add up.

I'm not sure i get you. You seem to be grouping 'civilization' as a one term one definition. Civilization doesn't have to be "advanced", or to deal with every person as your own etc. A group of cannibals living in isolation along the amazon river unaware of any modern life, and living in huts, eating whatever is not one of them, are their own civilization. they have they own set of standards as a homogeneous group of people. They don't eat each other, as a prime rule, coz they'd be extinct.

We evolved over millions of years. That's a long ass time. Then suddenly, modern civilization happened... and when I say modern, I mean 10,000 years. We are literally at a disadvantage because our brains aren't wired to be giving and caring and welcoming to outside influences.

You mean the melting pot. And no you're not xenophobic or racist. But it is true when people need to evolve their brains over one lifetime, within a set group of principles, ... if their social environment is so complex as to accommodate so many different sets of principles, in the name of tolerance and acceptance... it can become invasive and confusing, and in ways that are counter-productive to that evolution sought.

This is such a taboo topic that I'll be labeled xenophobic for even considering it. It's not even a discussion that is possible given our far left activists. That said, where do you think these problems like "xenophobia" come from? It traveled down the gene pool. Now, you may make some crazy claim that it's just a benign thing that is only now just playing a role in our existence, but that is complete horseshit.

1. don't care what needy snowflakes think.
2. Yes, down the gene pool, but also I think when forced melts took place, it created an innate adverse effect to not want that melt, and traced things further, and the term 'xenophobia' was put on it as a label at some point.

And this is true for everybody on the fucking planet, not just the US citizens. This is true for countries in the East as well. We cannot take our culture and bring it to Asia and plant it in the ground expecting them to accept us. That's not how it works, and the argument that the US is a melting pot does not change the fact that the biological feature still exists.

It's not necessarily what the US has been doing. And I must leave that at that. But in short, the US has been ensuring freedom. And so, at the cost of it's own societal well being at times. Hence people's need to AmFirst at this point.

I'm having to defend myself before I'm accused, which is sad. But I know exactly what some people are thinking as they're reading this. They're thinking, "Chris has an image of a white man evolving over time." No, that's not fucking it. Each country has their own set of values and their own culture, and they don't expect change.

Not all of them. And sadly, more people who do not see you as such do not post it. whiners however are more than happy to oblige.

So, some people will say that America has fucked with the Middle East and that they are fearful of us. And that is probably fucking true. I don't disagree with that. Not one bit. Some will argue, saying that we brought African people here as slaves. I know! I literally cannot do a thing about that. There is nothing I can do to solve that issue. But it also doesn't make the brain evolve at a faster pace.

Some people will say that some in the middle east have fucked with everyone before anyone fucked with them.
And some people will say that those African slaves probably got a chance at a better life, especially in those times. Even today the concept still works. Oh wait, Ben Carson actually said it recently. Gutsy.

You can make this case for any community in the world. Take the Kenyan children who have never seen a white person. They're literally amazed to see Caucasian skin. However, if the people are not tolerant of Caucasians, that doesn't make them racist. And it doesn't make them bad people, necessarily. I mean, they could end up being bad people... whatever... anyway...

All true. And bad within their own set of principles, or civilization. But if they never saw a whitey, and found it weird, not their fault.

I'm not arguing for racism or xenophobia. I'm just saying that our brains are wired a specific way because we needed to survive millions of years to get where we are, and outside influences were most likely not acceptable. That goes for every group of people, not just us. I have to keep reiterating that. When you take a melting pot, every person or group of people have their own tolerance and intolerance.

I've noticed that from experiencing living with different cultures. But it's interesting to know that indeed our brains are wired as such.

It is truly unfortunate. It really is, and I wish it weren't true. But that doesn't mean it's not reality. The only people who would argue that this isn't true are Christians, just because they believe in weird shit.

I'm a Christian. Not all Christians argue that its not true. Most of them tend to take the 'compassion' part a bit too much outside of the reality spectrum. they don't understand their own faith.

"Chris is racist. Oh my gawd... He's looking for attention! Oh my gawd!"

Incorrect.

Are we really not capable of seeing reality for what it is?

Correct; for most people. Certainly most on this forum too My stay has saturated rather quick.

You can change how you act, but you cannot change history and you can't change the world. Just like the fact that I can't change the people who continuously remind me that I'm going to burn hell for all eternity just because I was born a "sinner." That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard yet for some reason, religion came along down the gene pool as well. And there's nothing I can do about that either...

You can change how you act, you cannot change history; but you can indeed change the world.

I'd not dwell too much on this paragraph; it's as premature as currently irrelevant. Once relevant again, you'll feel it.

So yeah, I forgot about the week thing until I was half way done typing this. So fuck it. I'm not looking for attention. I'm just making a point, which is true and people don't like true stuff. I'm sorry if you cannot deal with reality.

Cause the truth is often, if not always, stranger than the strangest fiction; and people jailed by their needs and wants only - which is most people - have the attention span of a fly. Too short, to put 'truth' kind of theories together, which tend to be a bit long and complex. The macho type of this site for instance, call it boring.


Meditate.

 

[EternalFantasies]

Oh and if you have things for me to read about how our brains are wired this way, and how genes evolve, and stuff that relates social stuff to genes, plz share. Thanks.

 

[MoonlightandRoses]

Jack, people are not as self-centered as you make out. Example is the soldier who sacrifices his/her life for his/her comrades. You are incorrect in saying that the people rejected Hillary, almost 3 million more people voted for her than the next closest. If anything the people rejected the “America First” concept.

Eternal Fantasies, thank you for your contribution.

To all, so far no one has addressed my initial post.

Tom,

 

[EternalFantasies]

To all, so far no one has addressed my initial post.

Tom,

But it's kind of a no-brainer.

No one;s putting anything / anyone before another, or to be more important than another.

The US is putting it's own society's interest first - by going AmFirst - as top priority instead of being the world's ATM like it was before.

That's all.

Each society / country can do the same - and are, and have been.

 

[JackLuis]

Jack, people are not as self-centered as you make out. Example is the soldier who sacrifices his/her life for his/her comrades. You are incorrect in saying that the people rejected Hillary, almost 3 million more people voted for her than the next closest. If anything the people rejected the “America First” concept.

Tom,

I was only saying that the basis for survival is paramount in most people. That some can feel a greater duty to others is not a biological/genetic issue but a sociological decision.

As for Hillary, yes she won the popular vote but due to her Hubris of not addressing the issues that matter to most people she lost the states she did not cultivate (ie: Lie to). Many in the Heartland did not see her as a better alternative to Trump. The DNC did not focus on the Senate and lost what should have been a easy victory over the forces of RWN Jobbery. So now we have a 5-4 court and will have for many many years, all because the DNC disregarded the the science of polling. All because of Hillary's vanity.

The "America First" bullshit is just Trump's way of distracting the rubes while he carves up the Federal Budget to fund his backers. Politics is economics, one way or another.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I am opposed to the “America First” idea for the same reason that I am opposed to any idea that attempts to put any nation, race, gender, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation first that is any one above all others.

So fuck the USA, everyone come shit on it, because most of the planet is a total shit hole and we don't want to be mean?

LOL brilliant!!

It is the basic concept that one such group is put first among all the others that has caused the major problems we see in history

Tell me, what problems exactly has a government taking care of it's own citizenry first cause a major problem?

Most problems occur when governments STOP putting their people first.

I was born in the USA and I am a citizen of the USA.

Moonlight and Roses (Tom),

You might have been born here and legally be a citizen but you're about as American as Mother Merkel and those other "Fuck the USA" globalist turds.

Chris, what has happened in the past is that putting one group first results in wars, conflicts and oppression.

That's not a good reason for a government to not put it's own citizenry above other people.

 

[urguyscott]

I understand what you mean by not "wanting America first" as a policy of nationalism, but it isn't nationalism that Trump is using it. It is that we have had a policy of our leaders not doing what they are in office to do, that is work for the American people. Putting their interest first, after all if that is not the reason they are in office than what is? They are there to serve us.

Your point is that history is filled with countries using "Nationalism" as a means of both interior and exterior designs on control and even aggression. The communists world believes in a world "nationalism" where their belief in a one world of Russian and colonies or China and her colonies. Soros and his group believe in a one world one power one belief world. A world Nationalism. Whither inward or outward you feel this is a mistake and history proves it. I think that is your point.

Also if I am not mistaken you don't believe in Isolationism either. That we must not, as our past leader tried to do, separate us from the rest of the world. We are a part of the world and have been the leader in the free world for sometime. The left can't understand why we have border guards to control people entering this country and not like the majority of the world, have guards to keep people from leaving their country. What it means is we are doing something right versus the countries people are trying to escape from.

Nationalism, Isolationism, and world Imperialism (like Communistism, etc.) has been proven over and over again thru history, as I think you are trying to point out, doesn't work.

What we are saying is that this isn't what Trump is about. That when he speaks of America first he is saying that as an elected officer it is his duty and responsibility to put his people first in both interior and exterior policies. We have no design on world rule.

As a matter of fact some of the mistakes of recent history has to do with our belief that governments should be ruled by the people. We have fought against dictators and after destroying them a void has appeared that is strange to us. We feel that the people should come in and rule themselves, but most of the countries have always been ruled by dictators and it is hard for their people to overcome "tribal" "political" "religious" or "sectional" war lords. So when one "gang" member is uprooted another war lord follows. Our people are not Imperialist. At one point in our history (at the beginning of the 1900's) we tried, but soon saw that was a failure. We learn others don't. We need a leader now that can overcome the mistakes of the past.

After World War II we took over the government of Germany and Japan till they were able to set up a new government ruled by the people. When it was done we left. You never saw the Communists do such a thing. I don't know if our people today would follow such a policy, but by not taking more responsibility and allowing terrorist to come and fill the void in the last eight years, the world has become a bit of a mess.

So it seems that apples and oranges are being discussed. I apologize if it appears I didn't understand your view and I see how you misunderstood what we were saying.

 

[MoonlightandRoses]

Eternal Fantasies, everything I wrote in my first comment is correct that is why no one has addressed my initial post. People instead want to go off on a tangent and I am not going to do that.

Jack you didn’t explain how your point addressed my initial post. Also, if Hillary did not address the issues that mattered to most people she would not have won the popular vote. The America First idea was rejected by the voters.

Urguyscott, you are putting words in my mouth. My comment is much more general that what you say I meant.

To All, insults simply mean that the insulter does not know what he is talking about. I gave people enough time to come up with something sensible and I’m done. I made my point in my original comment and everything in that is correct. No one has shown anything different. My answer to everyone is:

“I am opposed to the “America First” idea for the same reason that I am opposed to any idea that attempts to put any nation, race, gender, religion, ethnicity or sexual orientation first that is any one above all others.

It is the basic concept that one such group is put first among all the others that has caused the major problems we see in history. Putting men first over women resulted in women not having the right to vote; one race over another resulted in slavery and racial intolerance; one nationality over another resulted in the Sound World War and most if not all wars; one religious or ethnic group over another resulted in the holocaust and the strife and the wars currently going on in the Middle East and I feel that one notion of sexuality has limited what it means to be human.

Putting America first is not the solution, but part of the problem.”

I am not going to waste my time reading anymore replies to on this thread.

Tom,

 

[EternalFantasies]

Eternal Fantasies, everything I wrote in my first comment is correct that is why no one has addressed my initial post. People instead want to go off on a tangent and I am not going to do that.

My reply above answered to your initial post, and quite well. No tangent there.