Transgenders and suicide

[IrezumiKiss]

I don't have the answers.

Well, you should, Jane. Because we look up to you, you know!

http://i.imgur.com/egFN68h.gif

*throws down half-empty bag of salt-n-vinegar kettle chips in frustration*

 

[hashtag46]

Check out Sean working hard to get offended.

Hillarious!

 

[Liar]

Transgenders are way less than 1% of the population and totally unimportant to any child. Sounds like indoctrination and recruitment. Get real.

At age 9 I was learning about fossils, vikings and parlamentary democracy. Politicians are less than 1% of the population, the life of 5th century Norwegians didn't affect me in any way whatsoever, and fossils have been dead for aeons.

"Recruitment"? What ever does that even fucking mean?

The topic is complicated and I think it's too complex for very young children to understand. I know children are smart but there are stages of development and figuring out who you are comes later in life.

The topic is out there. Kids don't live in hermetically sealed chambers, as much as some parents wish they did. They're gonna encounter trans people. On TV, hear about them from friends, maybe even meet one in person.

Why is it wrong to explain it to them? Especially since it it a topic prone for confusion, prejudice and disinformation otherwise.

 

[fma20fma]

hi

agree and accept. Wonder of nature. tg/ladyboys/shemales/lgbt. Human afterall.

 

[hashtag46]

At age 9 I was learning about fossils, vikings and parlamentary democracy. Politicians are less than 1% of the population, the life of 5th century Norwegians didn't affect me in any way whatsoever, and fossils have been dead for aeons.

"Recruitment"? What ever does that even fucking mean?



The topic is out there. Kids don't live in hermetically sealed chambers, as much as some parents wish they did. They're gonna encounter trans people. On TV, hear about them from friends, maybe even meet one in person.

Why is it wrong to explain it to them? Especially since it it a topic prone for confusion, prejudice and disinformation otherwise.

There is still a large nomber of persons that were and still are misdignosed. A large nomber of those are impressionable persons who have borderline personality disorders.
Imagine the disaster of realizing that you have made a mistake after the fact: irreversible surgery and invasive hormonal treatment with all sorts of severe side effects Let alone the psychological impact.

One could say that, at that age, kids are just as impressionable and unstable as adults with unstable personalities.

Let professionals who know what they're doing handle these issues, instead of liberal uninformed idiots who don't care about confusing or even harming kids in order to be PC.

Discrimination and the hate crimes that transgenders are subjected to could easily be te tackled in more apppropriate and intelligent ways.

 

[Liar]

There is still a large nomber of persons that were and still are misdignosed. A large nomber of those are impressionable persons who have borderline personality disorders.
Imagine the disaster of realizing that you have made a mistake after the fact: irreversible surgery and invasive hormonal treatment with all sorts of severe side effects Let alone the psychological impact.

One could say that, at that age, kids are just as impressionable and unstable as adults with unstable personalities.

Let professionals who know what they're doing handle these issues, instead of liberal uninformed idiots who don't care about confusing or even harming kids in order to be PC.

Discrimination and the hate crimes that transgenders are subjected to could easily be te tackled in more apppropriate and intelligent ways.

You might want to read my post again, as I have no idea what point in it you are trying to adress.

If kids see and hear about Kylie Jenner on TV, or hear schoolyard talk about this one kid who lives next door to a "guy who wears a dress", or overhear their drunk uncle talk about Thai ladyboys or whatever, then yes, a professional should be the one to explain to them what that is, and what that isn't: Their teacher. They are professionals at explaining things so kids can understand them. That's what they get degrees in.

This is NOT about the small subset of kids confused about their own gender. This is about all kids, and explaining the world to them. Trans people are more visible now than, say, ten years ago, and the topic of transgenderism is more prevalent in the general discourse. So kids will encounter the concept way more often than before. This is just a fact.

Why do you want children to be ignorant?

 

[hashtag46]

You might want to read my post again, as I have no idea what point in it you are trying to adress.

If kids see and hear about Kylie Jenner on TV, or hear schoolyard talk about this one kid who lives next door to a "guy who wears a dress", or overhear their drunk uncle talk about Thai ladyboys or whatever, then yes, a professional should be the one to explain to them what that is, and what that isn't: Their teacher. They are professionals at explaining things so kids can understand them. That's what they get degrees in.

This is NOT about the small subset of kids confused about their own gender. This is about all kids, and explaining the world to them. Trans people are more visible now than, say, ten years ago, and the topic of transgenderism is more prevalent in the general discourse. So kids will encounter the concept way more often than before. This is just a fact.

Why do you want children to be ignorant?

Teachers have no businness teaching such complex and serious medical and psychological issues to kids. Especially since the implications are so serious (hormonal treatment with all sorts of severe side effects, invasive surgery, and so on.)

At this age, kids being as impressionable as they are and still developing (brain included) they could easily do harmed by a superficial approach from an incompetent person.
By the same token, would you find it appropriate for a doctor or psychologist to teach math or carpentry?

Let child psychologists, nurses and doctors decide what's best. If they decide that it's appropriate to moonlight at schools and teach kids these issues, sure…

 

[about_average]

Another thread with the majority of people missing the obvious, though Thor, I think it was, touched on it in passing.

What would the suicide rate be if they everyone accepted people for who they are and didn't discriminate against them for being/doing something that offends their personal sensibilities/morals?

Of course it's going to be a long time before we know because there are too many people, as evidenced by this thread, who think it's their business to mind other peoples' business.

(Some are too stupid to understand, so I'll ass that the above should be taken in the context of this thread, it doesn't mean that I think everyone should be able to do what they want no matter what)

 

[hashtag46]

Actually, Liar:

now I'm realising where you're coming from.

You're not advocating for it as a primary method to combat discrimination against transgenders, by introducing PC liberal curticulae in primary schools. Like some libs.
(which imo would be inappropriate before late middle school or high school).

You actually feel that given that kids are already being bombarded by all sorts of uninformed stuff by (both R and L leaning) massmedia, it would be good at least to educate them properly on these issues.


Is that what you were trying to get at?
If so, I think that you made some valid points.

 

[hashtag46]

Actually, Liar:

now I'm realising where you're coming from.

You're not advocating for it as a primary method to combat discrimination against transgenders, by introducing PC liberal curticulae in primary schools. Like some libs.
(which imo would be inappropriate before late middle school or high school).

You actually feel that given that kids are already being bombarded by all sorts of uninformed stuff by (both R and L leaning) massmedia, it would be good at least to educate them properly on these issues.


Is that what you were trying to get at?
If so, I think that you made some valid points.

Good point, actually.
I haven't thought about it that way before.

I grew up when massmedia was more regulated, and I wasn't exposed then to all this crap.
Whereas with the large availability of the internet, kids are exposed from a younger age to all sorts of things.

 

[Liar]

Teachers have no businness teaching such complex and serious medical and psychological issues to kids. Especially since the implications are so serious (hormonal treatment with all sorts of severe side effects, invasive surgery, and so on.)

At this age, kids being as impressionable as they are and still developing (brain included) they could easily do harmed by a superficial approach from an incompetent person.
By the same token, would you find it appropriate for a doctor or psychologist to teach math or carpentry?

Teachers have every businness teaching complex and serious issues to kids. Cause nonoby else has the chops to do it. A good teacher will inform on facts, dispel common misconceptions and engage reasonable debate on the different subjective perpectives people can have on a topic.

I wouldn't find it appropriate for a doctor or psychologist to teach young children anything. Not even medicine or psychology. A teacher's job is to bring general understanding of a wide array of topics to children. You don't need specialized expertise in a topic. You need a well informed layman's insight, and the skill and competence to share it: Teaching.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Another thread with the majority of people missing the obvious, though Thor, I think it was, touched on it in passing.

What would the suicide rate be if they everyone accepted people for who they are and didn't discriminate against them for being/doing something that offends their personal sensibilities/morals?

Of course it's going to be a long time before we know because there are too many people, as evidenced by this thread, who think it's their business to mind other peoples' business.

(Some are too stupid to understand, so I'll ass that the above should be taken in the context of this thread, it doesn't mean that I think everyone should be able to do what they want no matter what)

I would suggest that it would be about the same. The basic factor here is not about the discomfort around others, but the discomfort with the self.

If having an opinion on a topic means a poster is "making it their business to mind the business of" some anonymous transgender, then I suppose just about every topic that involves any aspect of the human condition should become a banned subject...



It's not like we're picking on someone, singling them out, trying to harm their self-esteem, hell, for all I know, you could be a transgender who just doesn't want to be out in the open, but that does not preclude me from having an opinion on whether a transgender is suffering not from some physical difference, but some chemical imbalance in their brain. You have to admit, that both possibilities are equally valid until we understand the exact underlying mechanisms. It also seems to be valid to assume that anyone with some sort of mental disorder might have more of a tendency to suicide compared to the rest of the population.

 

[hashtag46]

I wouldn't find it appropriate for a doctor or psychologist to teach young children anything. Not even medicine or psychology. A teacher's job is to bring general understanding of a wide array of topics to children. You don't need specialized expertise in a topic. You need a well informed layman's insight, and the skill and competence to share it: Teaching.

Should we reach a compromise?

How about child psychologists and doctors and teachers collaborating and reaching a consensus as to what and how they should teach kids as young as 9?

I think we're both right. It would be inappropriate to have one without the other.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Actually, Liar:

now I'm realising where you're coming from.

You're not advocating for it as a primary method to combat discrimination against transgenders, by introducing PC liberal curticulae in primary schools. Like some libs.
(which imo would be inappropriate before late middle school or high school).

You actually feel that given that kids are already being bombarded by all sorts of uninformed stuff by (both R and L leaning) massmedia, it would be good at least to educate them properly on these issues.


Is that what you were trying to get at?
If so, I think that you made some valid points.

That is the job of a trained professional, not someone trained to teach.

 

[hashtag46]

That is the job of a trained professional, not someone trained to teach.

They opened Pandora's box when they decided to take it out of the "disorders" categories in DSM.

Part of their rationale made sense: for funding purposes and to try to put a stop to the awful hate crimes against transgenders.
--- But they forgot that some people don't realize that it's such a serious matter because it involves lifelong invasive treatment, and that so many people get misdiagnosed.
And that there are so many uneducated liberals out there who would take it superficially and turn it almost into a fashion fad or a freak show.

What some libs. don't understand is that They are magnifying discrimination against transgenders.
Because when people get bombarded with all sorts of stupid shit, they get frustrated and react.

 

[Liar]

Should we reach a compromise?

How about child psychologists and doctors and teachers collaborating and reaching a consensus as to what and how they should teach kids as young as 9?

Sure. You mean like happens all the time in teaching on all kinds of topics?

What makes you think that hasn't happened and is exactly why the topic is being broached?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I don't recall the daily reporting of hate crimes against transgenders...


They might face some discrimination and ostracizing but I don't think a lot of people where hunting for transgenders to beat up.

 

[Liar]

What some libs. don't understand is that They are magnifying discrimination against transgenders.
Because when people get bombarded with all sorts of stupid shit, they get frustrated and react.

Maybe, but 100% irrelevant to the question whether schools should inform children what trans people are.

"Out of sight, out of mind" only works when something IS out of sight.

 

[hashtag46]

Sure. You mean like happens all the time in teaching on all kinds of topics?

What makes you think that hasn't happened and is exactly why the topic is being broached?

There was an article about the fact that a lot of informed individuals (parents, teachers, mental health professionals) are concerned about the way that they're trying to 'educate' kids in the UK.

They're introducing a children's book written by a writer with no training, and from the pov of a transgender.
The topic is approached in a "fun" light sort of way, and with a bewildering array of terms like cisgender, pangender and so on. They say that it's very poorly done and superficial. As if it's a hip and cool thing to be transgender.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The most vicious thing I've ever seen done to a transgender was on the last episode of Survivor and it was done by a gay guy...

 

[Liar]

There was an article about the fact that a lot of informed individuals (parents, teachers, mental health professionals) are concerned about the way that they're trying to 'educate' kids in the UK.

They're introducing a children's book written by a writer with no training, and from the pov of a transgender.
The topic is approached in a "fun" light sort of way, and with a bewildering array of terms like cisgender, pangender and so on. They say that it's very poorly done and superficial.

All right. So you're not against kids being educated about trans people. You are upset over one instance where it was allegedly done poorly.

 

[hashtag46]

The most vicious thing I've ever seen done to a transgender was on the last episode of Survivor and it was done by a gay guy...

One is much more likely to encounter racism or xenophobia around here (and if so, it has to do with competition over jobs) , than anti- LGBT or anti- trans attitudes. They're very open- mi ded and tolerant, so to speak re the latter.

The latest violence that I heard of was when a transgender conned a half drunk guy by making up with him in front of all his friends, and he only found out when he was about to engage in sex.
He beat the shit out of him.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

A self-inflicted beating.



If you're fucked up enough in the head to pull that stunt on someone...

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Back in the 60s during my larval stage I absorbed all the prevailing psychotherapy schemes, starting with Freud, and all the others. My graduate diploma required 5 years of coursework plus all the courses for a psychology PhD.

Most psychotherapies boill down to I COULDA HADDA V8! Or HINDAIGHT IS 2020.

But Rehab is all NOW and TODAY.

And the best therapy for the here and mow is CLINICAL EPISTEMOLOGY or WHAT MAKES YOU SO SURE OF YOUR BELIEFS?

No matter how you slice it males aint females. Jim aint a genius brainiac. And youll be the star of THE TRASHBAG COMEDY HOUR. Youre gonna be a wage slave busting your ass so charlatans can sit on their asses and blabber nonsense for the money you must pay them.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

GRMP Y is a tranny Napoleon.