How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[KingOrfeo]

I don't personally believe we get a "body" or anything like that. Whatever is next is another plane of existence and what we need there won't be what we need here.
I don't think we worry about what's going on at home, where our loved ones are that died before us, anything at all. I believe we are at peace in a manner that we can never know here and that we feel God's love and Word in the same way.
I know one verse says we spend eternity singing His praises and maybe we do but I sorta doubt that. Seems like even God would get tired of it after a few thousand years.

It may be that if there is an afterlife, what it is like is completely incomprehensible and inexplicable and indescribable to any living person, because it is as different from our present state of being as this from the womb.

 

[rocket_surgery]

Yes I did and no he isn't.

He's saying that the Ancient Greek Gods were at least honest about their shortcomings, but were just as illusory as the Judeo-Christian one is.

While I may find a loving Earth Mother goddess far preferable to the patriarchal, misogynistic, genocidal sociopath that is the God of Abraham, she is nevertheless just as much a figment of the human imagination.

Anyone who impregnates a woman without her consent is a rapist.

Anyone who kills innocent children (i.e. as in the Passover story) is a murderous sociopath.

Anyone who causes a worldwide flood that kills nearly the entire population of Earth is a genocidal maniac.

Fortunately, the Virgin Birth, the Passover story, and Noah's Flood are nothing more than myths and fairy tales told to support a morally repugnant belief system.

In the Passover story they Egyptians were told in no uncertain terms that all they had to do was let the Jews go and everyone would be happy but they chose not to listen to God. Same for the flood. They all chose to turn their backs on God. If a being can do all the Bible says He can then telling Him to go screw Himself is probably not the wisest course of action. No different than when a country tells another country to stop what they're doing because it's against all the rules, the 2nd country says "go fuck yourself" and they promptly get bombed into oblivion.
Mary knew ahead of time and could have refused but didn't.

 

[rocket_surgery]

It may be that if there is an afterlife, what it is like is completely incomprehensible and inexplicable and indescribable to any living person, because it is as different from our present state of being as this from the womb.

Most likely, yes. No reason to think it's anything at all like what we have here. It's why God appears as things other than His true form. We couldn't handle that.
That's my belief anyway. Others like to take the Bible in a more literal fashion and that's fine for them. Maybe they're right. We all find out soon enough.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Most likely, yes. No reason to think it's anything at all like what we have here.

Indeed, asking whether a soul in the afterlife is happy or unhappy might well be as meaningless as asking whether it is orange or twelve or postmodern.

 

[BiTodd]

I will use Led Zepplin's stairs.

 

[EternalFantasies]

Yes I did and no he isn't.

He's saying that the Ancient Greek Gods were at least honest about their shortcomings, but were just as illusory as the Judeo-Christian one is.

What you need to be contrasting is the kind of life people had under those, and the kind today.

While I may find a loving Earth Mother goddess far preferable to the patriarchal, misogynistic, genocidal sociopath that is the God of Abraham, she is nevertheless just as much a figment of the human imagination.

Anyone who impregnates a woman without her consent is a rapist.

Anyone who kills innocent children (i.e. as in the Passover story) is a murderous sociopath.

Anyone who causes a worldwide flood that kills nearly the entire population of Earth is a genocidal maniac.

Fortunately, the Virgin Birth, the Passover story, and Noah's Flood are nothing more than myths and fairy tales told to support a morally repugnant belief system.

I sympathize.

 

[Tryharder62]

I don't personally believe we get a "body" or anything like that. Whatever is next is another plane of existence and what we need there won't be what we need here.
I don't think we worry about what's going on at home, where our loved ones are that died before us, anything at all. I believe we are at peace in a manner that we can never know here and that we feel God's love and Word in the same way.
I know one verse says we spend eternity singing His praises and maybe we do but I sorta doubt that. Seems like even God would get tired of it after a few thousand years.

WOW, very well said! It is interesting to think about!

 

[Maidboy]

In the Passover story they Egyptians were told in no uncertain terms that all they had to do was let the Jews go and everyone would be happy but they chose not to listen to God. Same for the flood. They all chose to turn their backs on God. If a being can do all the Bible says He can then telling Him to go screw Himself is probably not the wisest course of action. No different than when a country tells another country to stop what they're doing because it's against all the rules, the 2nd country says "go fuck yourself" and they promptly get bombed into oblivion.
Mary knew ahead of time and could have refused but didn't.

Only Pharoah had the authority to free the Jews. He didn't so innocent children were killed. Nice loving, merciful God you have there.

A worldwide flood would have killed the innocent as well as the guilty. Again, nice guy your God is.

God could just as easily created a Messiah out of clay like He did Adam, but chose to intimidate a young woman instead. Nice.

Go fuck yourself.

 

[Maidboy]

What you need to be contrasting is the kind of life people had under those, and the kind today.

I sympathize.

What you need to be contrasting are the imperfect yet basically just laws of a secular state, and the decrees of a vain, vengeful, misogynistic, genocidal sociopath.

And you can stick your sympathy where the Sun don't shine.

 

[phrodeau]

Technically, those were Hebrews, not Jews.

 

[Maidboy]

Technically, those were Hebrews, not Jews.

You are correct sir! And like so many OT stories, there's no historical record of the Passover story having actually happened. NT stories as well.

 

[Tryharder62]

Only Pharoah had the authority to free the Jews. He didn't so innocent children were killed. Nice loving, merciful God you have there.

A worldwide flood would have killed the innocent as well as the guilty. Again, nice guy your God is.

God could just as easily created a Messiah out of clay like He did Adam, but chose to intimidate a young woman instead. Nice.

Go fuck yourself.

It is hard for non-believers to understand that death is not a bad thing. God is actually calling the innocent home to eternal life with him. He has a purpose for each of us here on earth, but then he calls us home for eternity. Earthly death is not the end.

When Gabriel tells Mary what is going to happen he waits for her answer. She says "let it be" - She consents.

As to your last suggestion, I think I'll pass.

 

[Hard_Rom]

It's impossible for 'believers' to understand that death is the end. Game over, lights out, ashes to ashes, dust to dust, returning to from whence we came, worm food, waiting to become stardust again.

Ask any very elderly person if they wish to live for ever. Spend eternity singing hymns to Bog! No Thanks!

 

[rocket_surgery]

WOW, very well said! It is interesting to think about!

It is very interesting to think about what happens after death. There is no way of knowing what any afterlife might be like so the speculation alone can be fun and it's just as interesting to contemplate permanent loss of consciousness since it's said to be impossible for a person to comprehend their own but can of others. Either scenario is nothing to be worried over. I think it was Socrates who said when he was sentenced to death that either he will spend eternity discussing philosophy with those that went before him or he will shrug off all worries forever. He saw that in both cases things were just fine so no reason to fret over it.
Of course if there is a Hell then it's something to worry about but that's more about following your religion than anything else.

 

[rocket_surgery]

It's impossible for 'believers' to understand that death is the end. Game over, lights out, ashes to ashes, dust to dust, returning to from whence we came, worm food, waiting to become stardust again.

Ask any very elderly person if they wish to live for ever. Spend eternity singing hymns to Bog! No Thanks!

No it's not. Believers consider death in that respect all the time.

Most very elderly people believe in God so yeah, they do want to live forever. Not sure why'd you think differently.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Technically, those were Hebrews, not Jews.

Or Israelites. I recall that name used too in Exodus.

 

[KingOrfeo]

He has a purpose for each of us here on earth . . .

Isn't the existentialist view, despite its reputation to the contrary, really more optimistic than that? Existentialists assume God assigns us no purpose. We are free, and condemned to freedom. There is no meaning in life but what meaning we choose to invent for ourselves, and we are not in any way obliged to, we can simply eat and shit and fuck and work and sleep until we die and there's nothing wrong with that. There is no objective cosmic standard by which we can fail. We can only fail at our own chosen purposes.

I recall a Red Dwarf episode where an insane mechanoid travels through time identifying humans who have "wasted" their lives, and removing them from the time stream if they cannot justify their existences to him. The above would be my answer to him.

 

[KingOrfeo]

When Gabriel tells Mary what is going to happen he waits for her answer. She says "let it be" - She consents.

When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother Mary comes to me . . .

 

[Tryharder62]

Isn't the existentialist view, despite its reputation to the contrary, really more optimistic than that? Existentialists assume God assigns us no purpose. We are free, and condemned to freedom. There is no meaning in life but what meaning we choose to invent for ourselves, and we are not in any way obliged to, we can simply eat and shit and fuck and work and sleep until we die and there's nothing wrong with that. There is no objective cosmic standard by which we can fail. We can only fail at our own chosen purposes.

I recall a Red Dwarf episode where an insane mechanoid travels through time identifying humans who have "wasted" their lives, and removing them from the time stream if they cannot justify their existences to him. The above would be my answer to him.

My answer is no! I think existentialism gives false hope in the ability of human reason to overcome every challenge.


https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/1f/da/64/1fda64223aad25cc6aca884e2e666ade.jpg

 

[Tryharder62]

When I find myself in times of trouble
Mother Mary comes to me . . .

You love music don't you. You quote more songs than I ever could. I thought maybe you would have love of music down or something in your profile. Discovered why you are good at presenting arguments. Your occupation.

 

[KingOrfeo]

My answer is no! I think existentialism gives false hope in the ability of human reason to overcome every challenge.

That is not false hope to the extent it is hope at all. Existentialism does not promise reason can overcome every challenge (that would the the attitude of the 18th Century Enlightenment); existentialism only says you might as well try.

 

[KingOrfeo]

You love music don't you. You quote more songs than I ever could. I thought maybe you would have love of music down or something in your profile.

So long as it's music I can sing. I've had a lot of school-chorus experience. Karaoke is my occasional hobby. I filksing (look it up!) at every SF convention I attend. "If you don't believe in angels, you've never heard me sing; if you don't believe in devils, you've never heard me snore."

 

[xfrodobagginsx]

Technically, those were Hebrews, not Jews.

Same thing.

 

[phrodeau]

Same thing.

Apostles, disciples.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Apostles, disciples.

Jews, Christians, Muslims