How to protect the rights to your work before sending it to the editor?

[Nezhul]

I thought recently - when you just finish a manuscript and send it to the editor - its not published anywhere. Not known to anybody. What if the editor just takes it and publishes it as his own?

It would be my word against his.

How do you protect yourself? And how do people protect their work when it comes to publishing novels with paid editors? I know a lot of authors find editors in places like upwork - so they are basically random guys. How do you protect your work?

 

[Kantarii]

You know, people do try to steal published work as well. That falls under plagiarism. So if a thief wants to steal something, all he needs is an opportunity - not a consciences or permission.Kant

 

[oggbashan]

Amateur writers have virtually no redress if someone steals their work.

Even if legally copyrighted - at a cost in the US - your rights can only be protected by spending thousands of dollars on lawyers but you will almost never get compensation or recoup your legal costs.

If it is stolen outside the US? You have NO redress.

In theory my work is protected by UK legislation implementing the Berne Convention from the moment I start banging on the keyboard. But I could not prove financial loss if I post it on a free site such as Literotica.

Post it here; post it anywhere on the internet; send it by email - you have NO protection.

 

[ChloeTzang]

It's not something worth worrying over. Its not like there's editors on LIT lurking in the shadows waiting to steal your story. And if they are, they have serious problems......

 

[holliday1960]

It's not something worth worrying over. Its not like there's editors on LIT lurking in the shadows waiting to steal your story. And if they are, they have serious problems......

Chloe...damn it! Stop blowing my cover, please? And, I dont have serious issues...I don't, I don't, I dont'...

 

[SimonDoom]

If you choose someone reputable it shouldn't be a problem. An editor who did this would destroy his reputation and be finished as an editor.

If it's proof you are concerned about, there are ways of saving your document to prove that you created it before sending it to the editor, and of proving that you sent it. Save an electronic copy to a backup drive. Save the email with which you sent it. Or if you want to save a hard copy, time stamp it, or mail it to yourself and maintain a sealed copy of it.

Oggbashan is right that enforcement is expensive, but you can send DMCA notices to whatever provider is hosting the story and see where that goes. It helps to have registered the copyright first, but people don't usually do that for a pre-edited manuscript.

Your best bet is to stick with reputable editors.

 

[sr71plt]

If it's proof you are concerned about, there are ways of saving your document to prove that you created it before sending it to the editor, and of proving that you sent it. Save an electronic copy to a backup drive. Save the email with which you sent it. Or if you want to save a hard copy, time stamp it, or mail it to yourself and maintain a sealed copy of it.

That's not accepted as legal proof in the United States. And if it's not accepted as legal proof, it's just bluff. (Bluff is better than nothing, of course.)

You could file for copyright before you send it anywhere, if you wanted legal proof of ownership in the States (as Ogg has noted), but it would still cost you a lot to protect a little (because individual stories aren't worth all that much). The copyrighted version of a work need only be substantially the same as the finished copy is.

I'm sure there are cases of folks claiming to be editors and turning what they receive around and publishing it as theirs. That's not much an issue, though, in a world where anyone could--and many do--just copy off a story posted to Literotica and publish it as their own. Whatever you do, it's mainly to give yourself false peace of mind.

 

[RubiDia]

I thought recently - when you just finish a manuscript and send it to the editor - its not published anywhere. Not known to anybody. What if the editor just takes it and publishes it as his own?

It would be my word against his.

How do you protect yourself? And how do people protect their work when it comes to publishing novels with paid editors? I know a lot of authors find editors in places like upwork - so they are basically random guys. How do you protect your work?

Look someone up in the phone book?

 

[oggbashan]

DMCA notices only work with reputable websites.

They don't work with websites hosted in Eastern Europe and SE Asia. Many of my stolen stories are posted on those websites.

Why anyone thinks my stories are suitable for a bot-infested site of Japanese Anal Fisting Teenagers?

 

[Hypoxia]

I'll suggest that OP first acquire a reputable agent if commercial publication is the goal. Let the agent handle editing, copyright, publication, etc. Alas, you probably need a reputation before an agent will take you on. I'll let others suggest how to gain that reputation.

 

[Handley_Page]

I thought recently - when you just finish a manuscript and send it to the editor - its not published anywhere. Not known to anybody. What if the editor just takes it and publishes it as his own? [1]

It would be my word against his.

How do you protect yourself? [2] And how do people protect their work when it comes to publishing novels with paid editors? I know a lot of authors find editors in places like upwork - so they are basically random guys. How do you protect your work?

[1] Short answer - Tough!
[2] You can't.

If it's proof you are concerned about, there are ways of saving your document to prove that you created it before sending it to the editor, and of proving that you sent it. Save an electronic copy to a backup drive. Save the email with which you sent it. Or if you want to save a hard copy, time stamp it, or mail it to yourself and maintain a sealed copy of it.

Oggbashan is right that enforcement is expensive, but you can send DMCA notices to whatever provider is hosting the story and see where that goes. It helps to have registered the copyright first, but people don't usually do that for a pre-edited manuscript.

Your best bet is to stick with reputable editors.

There is an organisation here called "Stationers' Hall" which has a scheme:-

Registration under the Copyright Act 1911 ended in December 1923; the Company then established a voluntary register in which copyrights could be recorded to provide printed proof of ownership in case of disputes.


In practice, however, what happens is that a sealed packet of documents is entered and kept secure (after payment of a fee).
In the event of a real dispute about who wrote what & when, the packet is retrieved and opened in Court, thus securing 'proof' of ownership and so on.

It's hardly worth it for a short story.

 

[sr71plt]

There is an organisation here called "Stationers' Hall" which has a scheme:-

Registration under the Copyright Act 1911 ended in December 1923; the Company then established a voluntary register in which copyrights could be recorded to provide printed proof of ownership in case of disputes.


In practice, however, what happens is that a sealed packet of documents is entered and kept secure (after payment of a fee).
In the event of a real dispute about who wrote what & when, the packet is retrieved and opened in Court, thus securing 'proof' of ownership and so on.

It's hardly worth it for a short story.

It also has zero application in the United States. The only way you can get a court date for a copyright dispute case in the United States is be holding a formal copyright you applied for from the U.S. Copyright Office and paid for.

 

[Handley_Page]

It also has zero application in the United States. The only way you can get a court date for a copyright dispute case in the United States is be holding a formal copyright you applied for from the U.S. Copyright Office and paid for.

Sad, ain't it ?

 

[sr71plt]

Sad, ain't it ?

Not from the judicial system's perspective--or for those who have to cover the costs of having a court system. Face it, the discussions here are based on stories of zero worth because they are being given to Literotica to post to the public for free. That's not something society needs to have to foot the bill for policing.

 

[SimonDoom]

That's not accepted as legal proof in the United States. .

Sure it is. It's not proof of registration of the copyright -- you can't dodge the requirement to register your copyright if you want to enforce it in court. But it can be proof of authorship. They're two different things. Proof of authorship nearly always is going to entail a combination of testimony and documentary proof. The more you can do to prove that a document was created at a particular time before the editor got his hands on the document the better.

 

[sr71plt]

Sure it is. It's not proof of registration of the copyright -- you can't dodge the requirement to register your copyright if you want to enforce it in court. But it can be proof of authorship. They're two different things. Proof of authorship nearly always is going to entail a combination of testimony and documentary proof. The more you can do to prove that a document was created at a particular time before the editor got his hands on the document the better.

OK, what does "proof of authorship" mean in practical terms in the United States? If you can't take it to court, all you have is bluff. Your "proof of authorship" is an empty "so what?"

Just stop spinning your wheels on this empty "so what?" and giving rise to false expectation in others.

Wake up and smell the pizza, people. Stories are no big deal. They are a renewable resource and without a large volume of writing, a reputation as a writer, and lots of luck, they aren't worth a nickel. And if you are posting them here on Literotica, they aren't worth even that. You'll just have to readjust your expectations to be happy that they give you creative release and find an audience.

As I've posted before, if you want a chance to get monetary value from them, publish them to the marketplace yourself first before giving them away here or other places. That's what I do. I take the financial worth out of them up front and I spend the time others would playing whack-a-mole trying to keep their stories from being stolen from a site they've freely posted them to in writing more stories and taking any profit from them off the front.

 

[oggbashan]

Not from the judicial system's perspective--or for those who have to cover the costs of having a court system. Face it, the discussions here are based on stories of zero worth because they are being given to Literotica to post to the public for free. That's not something society needs to have to foot the bill for policing.

And society won't. All the legal costs will be the responsibility of the claimant - the one who claims their copyright has been infringed.

Damages? What damages for a story posted on a free site?

 

[Nezhul]

What damages for a story posted on a free site?

Arguably - your reputation

But no, on free site - no real damages.

 

[sr71plt]

Arguably - your reputation

When using a fake name and against you having chosen to post a story to a porn site to begin with? Your reputation? Really?

 

[Nezhul]

What's wrong with porn and reputation? I don't see anything that makes porn something different. I have a few favorite erotica authors, and that means that they have a certain degree of reputation.

Also, pen name is no different than your real one. Both are the face that you show to certain people. Both have value.

 

[oggbashan]

What's wrong with porn and reputation? I don't see anything that makes porn something different. I have a few favorite erotica authors, and that means that they have a certain degree of reputation.

Also, pen name is no different than your real one. Both are the face that you show to certain people. Both have value.

I regret that won't work in any court in the US or UK.

 

[sr71plt]

Also, pen name is no different than your real one. Both are the face that you show to certain people. Both have value.

Not in a court of law, the only place it really counts.

Be as deluded as you like if it gives you the false comfort you seem to require.

 

[rjordan]

Not from the judicial system's perspective--or for those who have to cover the costs of having a court system. Face it, the discussions here are based on stories of zero worth because they are being given to Literotica to post to the public for free. That's not something society needs to have to foot the bill for policing.

Yeah, it doesn't make sense. A copyright grants a "temporary" monopoly to the holder to encourage innovation. A monopoly where no money is changing hands is kind of nonsensical. What are you protecting if you give it away? What's the harm if someone else gives it away?

rj

 

[NotWise]

Yeah, it doesn't make sense. A copyright grants a "temporary" monopoly to the holder to encourage innovation. A monopoly where no money is changing hands is kind of nonsensical. What are you protecting if you give it away? What's the harm if someone else gives it away?

rj

The harm is to people who want to be acknowledged for what they've written.

Academics don't usually get paid for publishing in journals. They usually have to publish, so publishing is an overhead cost to them and/or their institution. The gains they get from publishing arise from being acknowledged for what they've done. That's maybe not analogous to Lit, but it sounds like some people think it is.

So far, the fact that other sites have lifted some of my writing is not a problem for me, but I can see situations in which it could be. If I ever reach that point then I'll stop posting to Lit. Otherwise complaining that you've had a story lifted from Lit is a little like jumping out of a window and then complaining because you fell.

 

[sr71plt]

Academics don't usually get paid for publishing in journals. They usually have to publish, so publishing is an overhead cost to them and/or their institution. The gains they get from publishing arise from being acknowledged for what they've done. That's maybe not analogous to Lit, but it sounds like some people think it is.

Well, if they don't publish, they don't get tenure or, if they have tenure, they don't get speaking gigs. It is a money thing connected to them publishing.