Ben Carson: slaves were immigrants too

[someoneyouknow]

In what can only be considered one of the worst slips of the tongue or garbled message in the history of mankind, Ben Carson, who now heads the Department of Housing and Urban Development, appeared to equate slaves who were dragged to this country against their will to immigrants who willingly came here to seek a better life.

"There were other immigrants who came in the bottom of slave ships, who worked even longer, even harder, for less, but they too had a dream that one day their sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters, great grandsons, great granddaughters might pursue prosperity and happiness in this land."

"And do you know of all the nations in the world, this one, the United States of America, is the only one big enough and great enough to allow all those people to realize their dream. And this is our opportunity to enhance that dream."

The HUD spokesperson responded with: "Nobody here believes he was equating voluntary immigration with involuntary servitude."

And yet, that's what Carson said.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/06/politics/ben-carson-immigrants-slavery/index.html

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Ex-SQUEEZE me???

 

[JackLuis]

Somebody check his 'prescriptions', something isn't right with him.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Ex-SQUEEZE me???

I can't believe I'm agreeing with you. I mean, I THINK I know what he might have been trying to say but ummmm, that was "interesting". Yes, thatz the word. Go Ben. Doing his best to confirm the Bell Curve I guess. At least his hearts in the right place.

 

[Boxlicker101]

In what can only be considered one of the worst slips of the tongue or garbled message in the history of mankind, Ben Carson, who now heads the Department of Housing and Urban Development, appeared to equate slaves who were dragged to this country against their will to immigrants who willingly came here to seek a better life.

"There were other immigrants who came in the bottom of slave ships, who worked even longer, even harder, for less, but they too had a dream that one day their sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters, great grandsons, great granddaughters might pursue prosperity and happiness in this land."

"And do you know of all the nations in the world, this one, the United States of America, is the only one big enough and great enough to allow all those people to realize their dream. And this is our opportunity to enhance that dream."

The HUD spokesperson responded with: "Nobody here believes he was equating voluntary immigration with involuntary servitude."

And yet, that's what Carson said.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/06/politics/ben-carson-immigrants-slavery/index.html

He's not correct, because most slaves by 1865 had been born in the US, and were not immigrants anyhow, although their ancestors were. You're not really correct either, because others were deported from England to the colonies. Georgia Colony, in particular, was settled largely by deportees from debtors' prison.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Province_of_Georgia

 

[phrodeau]

I'll bet that some news organization will find experts who will agree and defend him. Then they'll go on to prove that the Titanic was sunk for the insurance money.

 

[KentuckyDom1971]

The definition of "immigrant" is:
A plant or animal that migrated to a foreign land to take up permanent residence.

It does not say they have to migrate by choice.

Fact: slaves did end up in a foreign land.
Fact: slaves were certainly taking up permanent residence.
Fact: slave did migrate.

It would be also a small leap to assume they also had hopes and dreams of something better for themselves and their descendants.

Putting politics aside and people's sensitivity aside, where was Ben Carson wrong in his explanation of slaves migrated to the U.S.?

And before it is assumed, I did not vote for Trump.

 

[phrodeau]

The definition of "immigrant" is:
A plant or animal that migrated to a foreign land to take up permanent residence.

It does not say they have to migrate by choice.

Fact: slaves did end up in a foreign land.
Fact: slaves were certainly taking up permanent residence.
Fact: slave did migrate.

It would be also a small leap to assume they also had hopes and dreams of something better for themselves and their descendants.

Putting politics aside and people's sensitivity aside, where was Ben Carson wrong in his explanation of slaves migrated to the U.S.?

And before it is assumed, I did not vote for Trump.

So was the Titanic sunk for the insurance money?

 

[KentuckyDom1971]

So was the Titanic sunk for the insurance money?

Opinionated diversion will not change the facts.

Where in Ben Carson's words did he state untruths?

 

[Hard_Rom]

It was a migration of people. I suppose a forced emigration could result in an immigrant being a slave. But language can convey meaning way beyond what is written. Who knows, maybe next is calling it just forced emigration.

 

[someoneyouknow]

It would be also a small leap to assume they also had hopes and dreams of something better for themselves and their descendants.

How? They were forcibly taken from their place of residence, transported in chains several thousand miles to an unknown land and forced to work for someone else. They may have had hope but it would have been to free of oppression. That hardly qualifies as someone who willingly came here looking for a better life.

Putting politics aside and people's sensitivity aside, where was Ben Carson wrong in his explanation of slaves migrated to the U.S.?

Slaves didn't migrate. You're trying to use semantics whereas Carson is simply an idiot. He's the same moron who said the pyramids were used as grain silos. Not a single bit of evidence to back this up and literal mountains of evidence to show they were tombs for the elites, but he's sticking by his words.

As Abraham Lincoln once remarked, "Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally."

 

[Boxlicker101]

Opinionated diversion will not change the facts.

Where in Ben Carson's words did he state untruths?

Most slaves were born in America, so they would not have been immigrants. In fact, I believe importation of slaves was actually illegal for most of the 19th Century. There were white slaves too, mostly of Irish descent, who were abducted by the bloody Sassenach and shipped to the new world. http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/irish-the-forgotten-white-slaves-says-expert-john-martin-188645531

One way or another, slavery was an extremely shameful part of the history of America.

 

[KentuckyDom1971]

How? They were forcibly taken from their place of residence, transported in chains several thousand miles to an unknown land and forced to work for someone else. They may have had hope but it would have been to free of oppression. That hardly qualifies as someone who willingly came here looking for a better life.



Slaves didn't migrate. You're trying to use semantics whereas Carson is simply an idiot. He's the same moron who said the pyramids were used as grain silos. Not a single bit of evidence to back this up and literal mountains of evidence to show they were tombs for the elites, but he's sticking by his words.

As Abraham Lincoln once remarked, "Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally."

You have assumed and inserted your thoughts into your response as if they were my thoughts or words.
No where in anything that I typed can even suggest that I am for "slavery."
As some one who has made tremendous sacrifices in my life for the betterment of those who are less fortunate than myself, your assumptions of me show that you will jump to conclusions and speak from a lack of knowledge.

I am not using semantics. I am using the literal meaning of what "immigrant" means by its definition.
By the literal definition slaves did migrate. That fact cannot be argued.

And again, no matter what our human state and condition is, we all have hopes and dreams.

 

[KentuckyDom1971]

Most slaves were born in America, so they would not have been immigrants. In fact, I believe importation of slaves was actually illegal for most of the 19th Century. There were white slaves too, mostly of Irish descent, who were abducted by the bloody Sassenach and shipped to the new world. http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/irish-the-forgotten-white-slaves-says-expert-john-martin-188645531

One way or another, slavery was an extremely shameful part of the history of America.

Ben Carson did not speak about all slaves. He spoke about slaves that migrated (forcibly) which by the very use of the word immigrant means he was not speaking about slaves that were born here.

 

[KentuckyDom1971]

It was a migration of people. I suppose a forced emigration could result in an immigrant being a slave. But language can convey meaning way beyond what is written. Who knows, maybe next is calling it just forced emigration.

I agree completely with your post.
That is where Ben Carson was wrong in that he used the true definition of immigrant without regard to what the audience that heard his words would perceive those words to mean.
He was factually correct yet politically incorrect. In a classroom setting this may have been an opportunity to use his words to educate students on a truer meaning of the word immigrant by using it in a context that would raise eyebrows. There it may have had value from a learning moment.

However, he is not a professor but in a leadership position and his audience is the American people and he uses very poor choices of words to make a point that would have been rejected by many of his audience anyway.

 

[trysail]

...

Thank you for providing proof that you are, in fact, illiterate.

Many people suspected as much for a long time.




​

 

[sr71plt]

I agree completely with your post.
That is where Ben Carson was wrong in that he used the true definition of immigrant without regard to what the audience that heard his words would perceive those words to mean.
He was factually correct yet politically incorrect. In a classroom setting this may have been an opportunity to use his words to educate students on a truer meaning of the word immigrant by using it in a context that would raise eyebrows. There it may have had value from a learning moment.

However, he is not a professor but in a leadership position and his audience is the American people and he uses very poor choices of words to make a point that would have been rejected by many of his audience anyway.

Where Ben Carson went off the rails in his statement was in going on to say that these people forceably uprooted from their communities and packed into the hold of a ship and transported across the ocean were looking ahead to the opportunities they would have in a new land. They were, in fact, trying to survive the night under horrific conditions and bewailing being snatched from their families and sold into slavery. Immigration involves the choice to relocate. They didn't have a choice in the matter.

 

[KentuckyDom1971]

Where Ben Carson went off the rails in his statement was in going on to say that these people forceably uprooted from their communities and packed into the hold of a ship and transported across the ocean were looking ahead to the opportunities they would have in a new land. They were, in fact, trying to survive the night under horrific conditions and bewailing being snatched from their families and sold into slavery. Immigration involves the choice to relocate. They didn't have a choice in the matter.

Back to my original post.
We can say that immigration involves the choice to relocate but the definition of immigrant covers any plant or animal that relocated to a foreign land to take up permanent residence.

 

[KingOrfeo]

A lot of people got renamed "Washington" at Ellis Island.

 

[phrodeau]

Back to my original post.
We can say that immigration involves the choice to relocate but the definition of immigrant covers any plant or animal that relocated to a foreign land to take up permanent residence.

He wasn't talking about plants or animals, unless you want to include slaves in one of those distinctions.

 

[sr71plt]

Back to my original post.
We can say that immigration involves the choice to relocate but the definition of immigrant covers any plant or animal that relocated to a foreign land to take up permanent residence.

Yes, I know that deflection is a popular technique these days.

 

[dan_c00000]

The definition of "immigrant" is:
A plant or animal that migrated to a foreign land to take up permanent residence.

You're using the wrong definition. People are not plants nor are the animals. Hence we have different laws for people, plants, and animals.

You need the OED's second definition:

One who or that which immigrates; a person who migrates into a country as a settler.

Pretty sure slaves were brought here to "settle".

For fun, and just because it's going to embarrass you further, let's look at the OED's definition of a slave:

One who is the property of, and entirely subject to, another person, whether by capture, purchase, or birth; a servant completely divested of freedom and personal rights.

That sounds more like what your boy sleepy Ben is talking about.

 

[someoneyouknow]

If we're going to deny the use of semantics, let's just call rape another form of sex. So what if it's forced, it's still sex.

 

[KentuckyDom1971]

You're using the wrong definition. People are not plants nor are the animals. Hence we have different laws for people, plants, and animals.

You need the OED's second definition:

One who or that which immigrates; a person who migrates into a country as a settler.

Pretty sure slaves were brought here to "settle".

For fun, and just because it's going to embarrass you further, let's look at the OED's definition of a slave:

One who is the property of, and entirely subject to, another person, whether by capture, purchase, or birth; a servant completely divested of freedom and personal rights.

That sounds more like what your boy sleepy Ben is talking about.

Fair enough. You win.
And I'll try to heal from my public forum embarrassment.

 

[KentuckyDom1971]

He wasn't talking about plants or animals, unless you want to include slaves in one of those distinctions.

Slaves were humans. I am human.
Humans are animals.
Are we going to argue that human beings are not part of the animal kingdom?
If so, I'm out because I have no business posting in a political forum here.