How To Get To Heaven When You Die

[xfrodobagginsx]

Then He should not have made Hell.

God didn't make hell for man. He made it for the devil and his angels. It is a prison. If we reject Christ Jesus, God has no choice but to send us there.

 

[yukonnights]

Opinions formed in pride or anger are not always wrong.

Good catch. I failed to make it clear that 'our opinions should manifest the Fruit of the Spirit'...that was the point I was trying to make, but didn't. I'll change it to do that. (even Christ expressed anger toward the religious leaders and the money changers...so there is, no doubt, a righteous anger)

 

[yukonnights]

The subject of Hell can cause a stumbling block, when even our own fallen nature appears to have more compassion and love than God. ST John states; He who does not love does not know God, for God is Love. (1John 4:8).

Below is a small excerpt from a Wikipedia article about the Orthodox view on Hell. I keep bringing up the Orthodox because many of the objections/fears people have are based on much later theological views. Hell and God punishing humans are two of these concerns that are so often brought out in conversations. In short, it is not God who sends us to Hell, we experience God's presence as either joyous light or a burning fire, depending on our own spiritual condition.

I realize that to read all of this takes time and is sometimes tedious, I put it here for those who are interested enough to take that time.

Below, taken from Wikipedia topic Hell (at about half way down the page):

Some Orthodox theologians see another example of distinction between East and West in the teaching of Hell as a created place.[15][16][17][18] For the Orthodox, Heaven is not a place in the sky, it is being with God.[19] Salvation in the East, is not salvation from the wrath of God,[20] as St Isaac teaches that the Love of God is the Tree of Life.[21] According to Eastern Christianity people are not sent down to Hell by an angry God.[22] Hell as professed in the East is neither the absence of God nor the separation of the soul from the presence of God, but rather the opposite—Heaven and Hell are the divine presence experienced either pleasantly or unpleasantly, depending upon one's spiritual condition.[23][24][25]

Full Wikipedia Article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Christian_theology

 

[KingOrfeo]

The subject of Hell can cause a stumbling block, when even our own fallen nature appears to have more compassion and love than God. ST John states; He who does not love does not know God, for God is Love. (1John 4:8).

That is completely irrelevant and you know it. It is still wrong, and an abomination, for God to damn unbelievers. May your false God burn in His own Hell for His sins, as He deserves, and as no one else deserves, and may He burn there alone.

 

[KingOrfeo]

I think God wants us to believe so that he can share his love. He isn't wounded if we don't believe, he doesn't have that kind of ego. He wants the best for us. He doesn't want us to go to hell. His message is love. As a parent I only know I want the best for my kids but ultimately they eventually are going to live their lives the way they want to no matter how much I want them safe. I don't want them to have to struggle learning the lessons I had to learn the hard way. They will forge thier own path.

It is more than just believing. Satan believes in God and his reward will not be heaven.

Your false God is an abomination against all conceivable standards of basic human moral decency, and you know that precious well.

 

[phrodeau]

God didn't make hell for man. He made it for the devil and his angels. It is a prison. If we reject Christ Jesus, God has no choice but to send us there.

No choice? What kind of 98-pound weakling is that god of yours?

 

[Tryharder62]

Your false God is an abomination against all conceivable standards of basic human moral decency, and you know that precious well.

Wow, did someone pee in your Rice Krispies? On this point we disagree.

 

[Tryharder62]

That is completely irrelevant and you know it. It is still wrong, and an abomination, for God to damn unbelievers. May your false God burn in His own Hell for His sins, as He deserves, and as no one else deserves, and may He burn there alone.

God doesn't send anyone to hell. Hell is simply the absence of all of God's goodness. If people don't want to be with God, why are they so offended when God gives them what they want in eternity???

 

[EternalFantasies]

Wow, did someone pee in your Rice Krispies? On this point we disagree.

hehehe.. Maybe this will tell you something that'll deduce into our little experience.

Your false God is an abomination against all conceivable standards of basic human moral decency, and you know that precious well.

Know one thing OreoKing, and that, is indisputable and unquestionable. His forgiveness is endless and eternal.

There isn't any scenario where Jesus would not be forgiving. And only Jesus has that ability. His arms wide open.

 

[KingOrfeo]

God doesn't send anyone to hell.

While you might not find it in Scripture, the popular image is that each soul stands before God's throne to face judgment. In that scenario, it is He who sends the damned to Hell, as surely as it is a human judge who sends the convicted to prison.

 

[Hard_Rom]

From star dust do we come. And to star dust will we return.

23
Ah, make the most of what we yet may spend,
Before we too into the Dust descend;
Dust into Dust, and under Dust, to lie,
Sans Wine, sans Song, sans Singer, and - sans End !

24

Alike for those who for TO-DAY prepare,
And those that after a TO-MORROW stare,
A Muezzin from the Tower of Darkness cries
"Fools ! your Reward is neither Here nor There!'

25

Why, all the Saints and Sages who discuss'd
Of the Two Worlds so learnedly, are thrust
Like foolish Prophets forth; their Words to Scorn
Are scatter'd, and their Mouths are stopt with Dust.

26

Oh, come with old Khayyam, and leave the Wise
To talk; one thing is certain, that Life flies;
One thing is certain, and the Rest is Lies;
The Flower that once has blown for ever dies.


Omar Khayyam

 

[Tryharder62]

While you might not find it in Scripture, the popular image is that each soul stands before God's throne to face judgment. In that scenario, it is He who sends the damned to Hell, as surely as it is a human judge who sends the convicted to prison.

People are usually thinking of the judgment seat of God.

Romans 14:10–12 says, “For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. . . . So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God” (ESV). Second Corinthians 5:10 tells us, “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.” In context, it is clear that both passages refer to Christians, not unbelievers. The judgment seat of Christ, therefore, involves believers giving an account of their lives to Christ.


The white throne judgment in Revelation has yet to come. When the old earth is gone, Jesus will look to see if someone is a believer. Those that believe have names are written in the book of life. Those who don't believe will get what they wanted - separation from God. It really is our choice. We send ourselves to "heaven" or "hell".

Yes, he could have made us all have no choice and everyone would go to heaven. He gives us a choice because he wants us to love him like he loves us, but he will not make us love him.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Yes, he could have made us all have no choice and everyone would go to heaven. He gives us a choice because he wants us to love him like he loves us, but he will not make us love him.

He could also choose to let those who love Him not into Heaven, or at least out of Hell. That's all on Him, not on us. Hell is not by definition the state of the soul that loves not God; Hell is by definition the state of eternal torment and suffering in punishment for sins.

 

[Tryharder62]

From star dust do we come. And to star dust will we return.

23
Ah, make the most of what we yet may spend,
Before we too into the Dust descend;
Dust into Dust, and under Dust, to lie,
Sans Wine, sans Song, sans Singer, and - sans End !

24

Alike for those who for TO-DAY prepare,
And those that after a TO-MORROW stare,
A Muezzin from the Tower of Darkness cries
"Fools ! your Reward is neither Here nor There!'

25

Why, all the Saints and Sages who discuss'd
Of the Two Worlds so learnedly, are thrust
Like foolish Prophets forth; their Words to Scorn
Are scatter'd, and their Mouths are stopt with Dust.

26

Oh, come with old Khayyam, and leave the Wise
To talk; one thing is certain, that Life flies;
One thing is certain, and the Rest is Lies;
The Flower that once has blown for ever dies.


Omar Khayyam

I missed the whole meaning of this.

 

[Tryharder62]

He could also choose to let those who love Him not into Heaven, or at least out of Hell. That's all on Him, not on us.
Hell is not by definition the state of the soul that loves not God; Hell is by definition the state of eternal torment and suffering in punishment for sins.

HUH
Yes, he can choose to do anything he wants. He could have chosen not to let those who love him into heaven, but he won't. He has assured us of this.

It always amazes me how angry some people get about hell. I think the anger is really fear. If you don't believe in God, in what is in the bible, the faith of Christians then hell shouldn't be a worry or make you angry. For you it is not real.

I don't worry about hell because I am not going there. I only want to bring people to heaven with me.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Faith is like WiFi. It's invisible but will hook you up with what you need.

 

[KingOrfeo]

HUH
Yes, he can choose to do anything he wants. He could have chosen not to let those who love him into heaven, but he won't. He has assured us of this.

Then shame on Him. He is unworthy to be loved.

 

[Tryharder62]

Then shame on Him. He is unworthy to be loved.

Get some sleep.

 

[EternalFantasies]

From star dust do we come. And to star dust will we return.

23
Ah, make the most of what we yet may spend,
Before we too into the Dust descend;
Dust into Dust, and under Dust, to lie,
Sans Wine, sans Song, sans Singer, and - sans End !

24

Alike for those who for TO-DAY prepare,
And those that after a TO-MORROW stare,
A Muezzin from the Tower of Darkness cries
"Fools ! your Reward is neither Here nor There!'

25

Why, all the Saints and Sages who discuss'd
Of the Two Worlds so learnedly, are thrust
Like foolish Prophets forth; their Words to Scorn
Are scatter'd, and their Mouths are stopt with Dust.

26

Oh, come with old Khayyam, and leave the Wise
To talk; one thing is certain, that Life flies;
One thing is certain, and the Rest is Lies;
The Flower that once has blown for ever dies.


Omar Khayyam

See here's the thing. You can either remain a Khayyam follower, or become Khayyam. The funny/ironic part, in "26", he tells you to follow him instead of the wise... .


As for your signature: 'Gather enough snowflakes and rule the world...' that is exactly what's on the left. a lot of snowflakes. those are in darkness.

By the way, ruling the world through 'enough' or a lot of snowflakes under the belt, is devilish thinking. Certain religion too... .

Ruling the world through wisdom, intelligence, broad mind spectrum, broad vision, strength tempered by benevolence, kindness tempered by prudence, enlightenment, life protecting and progressing thinking: Judaeo-Christianity. Atheist thinking is nothing without that umbrella.

And as the Pope recently said: If you cannot be a good Christian, its better to be a Atheist. That is very correct. And you, and OreoKing, can just forget this subject altogether and do not bother would also be my advice.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Ruling the world through wisdom, intelligence, broad mind spectrum, broad vision, strength tempered by benevolence, kindness tempered by prudence, enlightenment, life protecting and progressing thinking: Judaeo-Christianity. Atheist thinking is nothing without that umbrella.

This from a Trumpista! LOL Good one!

 

[yukonnights]

There seems to be much discussion and concern regarding those who have never heard the Gospel. This is a very legitimate and righteous concern. The truth is, no human can declare the final decision. As always, if we are serious in our questioning, we will investigate the issue. If anyone is sincere in their concerns regarding the "unsaved" they will study this...then choose the way that suits. But recognize that to continue in doubt and anger over the concept shows a lack of sincerity because every position has been discussed since the earliest days of the Church. My own conclusion remains that God is Love, and will always work to the good of those who seek Truth.

(The following was the best I could find in a casual search for more information on this. I will post this very small sample of the full article here, along with a link to the source for those who wish to dig deeper on their own. The full article has more in-depth discussion on each view listed below.)
*********

Universalism - Definition: All people will in fact be saved by Jesus. No one is damned forever.
Key Texts: Romans 5:18 ; 1 Corinthians 15:22–28 ; 1 John 2:2
Adherents: Origen, Karl Barth (more at source)

Inclusivism - Definition:The unevangelized may be saved if they respond in faith to God based on the revelation they have.
Key Texts: John 12:32 ; Acts 10:34–35 ; 1 Timothy 4:10
Adherents: Justin Martyr, Thomas Aquinas, John Wesley, C. S. Lewis (more at source)

Postmortem Evangelism - Definition: The unevangelized receive an opportunity to believe in Jesus after death.
Key Texts: John 3:18 ; 1 Peter 3:18–4:6
Adherents: Clement of Alexandria, George MacDonald (more at source)

Universal Opportunity before Death - Definition: All people are given opportunity to be saved by God’s sending the gospel
(even by angels or dreams) or at the moment of death, etc)
Key Texts: Daniel 2 ; Acts 8
Adherents: James Arminius, John Henry (more at source)

Restrictivism - Definition: God does not provide salvation to those who fail to hear of Jesus and come to faith in him before they die.
Key Texts: John 14:6 ; Acts 4:12 ; 1 John 5:11–12
Adherents: Augustine, John Calvin, Jonathan Edwards, R. C. Sproul (more at source)

Note: The listed adherents of all these views agree that Jesus is the only Savior.
******

Source Material -> https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/salvat...ws/13-those-who-have-never-heard-survey-major

 

[EternalFantasies]

This from a Trumpista! LOL Good one!

This is from someone who's been nailing your behind in many threads. I don't do that to feed my ego.


That is, if you wanna be honest with yourself, of course

 

[yossi]

This is from someone who's been nailing your behind

https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/bxhnj6y.gif?w=650

 

[Hard_Rom]

Swishful thinking!

https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/bxhnj6y.gif?w=650

 

[yukonnights]

A few thoughts and some advice from the Bible regarding debates and arguments. ~
******

Matthew 7:3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not see the plank in your own eye? ( spoken by Jesus)

Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding, but only in revealing his own mind. (Hebrew proverb)

1 Peter 3:15 …be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear… (written by ST Peter)

James 1:19-20 So then, my beloved brethren, let everyone be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God. (written by ST James)

2 Timothy 2:14-16 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness. (Written by ST Paul)

2 Timothy 2:23-25 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, in humility correcting those who are in opposition…(written by ST Paul)

Romans 14:1-4 Receive one who is weak in faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things…Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed he will stand, for God is able to make him stand.(written by ST Paul)