A dead SEAL, politics, and Trump.

[EternalFantasies]

It comes as no surprise to me that the most important point regarding the Yemen raid is being overlooked or steadfastly avoided. That fact being that the jihadists KNEW the SEAL's were coming and were prepared. Under those conditions it would have made no difference as to who signed the final order of execution, none at all.

Not only were the results predictable, but it is amazing that there was only one US causality!!!!!!

As long as everyone wants to sit around and point their stubby little fingers at people that had nothing to do with the leak, the real source of the problem, the leaker and/or the procedure, will go unaddressed.

The Military is laying this squarely at the feet of State, deserved or not. (And given the nature of the other leaks that have been reported, State is the most likely source.) Until the source of the leak(s) is resolved the Military is NOT going to willingly share any information with State, and will not trust or be willing to act on any information provided by State. What with the ongoing terrorist threat to the US, its interests, and our allies, that is an intolerable situation.

I predict that the new administration IS going to initiate criminal investigations into the source(s) of these leaks and I further predict that there will be 'reports' in the press sourced from unidentified 'sources' that a 'witch hunt' is taking place in an attempt to imply that those poor dedicated civil servants are being "victimized" by the Trump administration.

Ishmael

Overlooked? point number 2 on my first post in this thread that you didn't reply to.

I have mentioned a couple of times in the initial thread how he seems to have been setup.

 

[Rightguide]

He did? Why is Ishmael saying otherwise?

And Trump ordered a navy seal operation and got it up and executed within 1 week in office? Why?

Planning for the raid was initiated during the Obama administration and it was passed along to Trump after he was sworn in.

 

[Ishmael]

Overlooked? point number 2 on my first post in this thread that you didn't reply to.

I have mentioned a couple of times in the initial thread how he seems to have been setup.

I saw your post. Go back and scan the thread to see what a minority you represent.

Ishmael

 

[BoyNextDoor]

At least that fucking disgusting human garbage Dan Grilo was fired....

Funny. I have yet to see one post refute anything Ish said. Just a bunch of crying and lying.

You poor snowflakes are slacking.... have you given up all hope!?

Ok that is fair - here is a more direct engagement with the OP: The theory that the leak was in the State Department is one of the critical aspects of what an investigation should be focused on. The investigation should be open, not closed.

Another theory is that the contacts in Yemen crucial to the success of the mission, and who were were just loudly and temporarily banned from the US of A, decided that they needed to leak the mission to save their own ass in case something went bad because running to the US was not going to be an option. This theory needs to be investigated as well, and with equal openness and vigor.

Asserting that the action was previously approved as a way to say this President has no culpability and they were just waiting for a full moon is specious at best. There are hundreds of potential missions that are "ready" any given week. That is why the President has to sign on the dotted line. Also, direct military action in Yemen in the form of an incursion was not Obama Administration policy (this is where we send a shitload of drones). Sending in Seals was making new policy, which was the act of the 6 days-old Trump administration.

So, going into an investigation what seems more believable to me? A cocky, show off of a person, handing his administration with aplomb, wants to throw his weight around as the new President. He makes two specific policy changes (ban and seal incursion) but because they are done without the normal cross departmental consultation designed to avoid conflict, they disastrously collide.

OR - the United States State Department leaked the incursion to the enemy for some unknown but potentially sinister reason all based on loyalty to the previous Administration? And it was the policy review of the incursion that was the issue, when it seems apparent normal channels were not followed?

I will believe the former until the investigation proves otherwise.

 

[contrifan32]

Ishmael still did not answer my question tho. Why those military officers remained seated. And if any reference exists as to when this mission started to be in the works.

For the same reasons why the Supremes remain seated. They are not there for political grandstanding.

 

[EternalFantasies]

Planning for the raid was initiated during the Obama administration and it was passed along to Trump after he was sworn in.

I know. I was giving him an opportunity to defend his argument to see how ridiculous it was.

I saw your post. Go back and scan the thread to see what a minority you represent.

Ishmael

hehe.. i see, and that led to the philosophy of eradication of the minority, since they are so.

 

[EternalFantasies]

For the same reasons why the Supremes remain seated. They are not there for political grandstanding.

Yes, Vatican Assassin pointed it out, and 4est4est Gump. I did not know that. thank you.

I guess i viewed it as mere thanking the lady for her sacrifice.

 

[contrifan32]

Yes, Vatican Assassin pointed it out, and 4est4est Gump. I did not know that. thank you.

I guess i viewed it as mere thanking the lady for her sacrifice.

I am quite certain they did that the way the military always has.

 

[EternalFantasies]

I am quite certain they did that the way the military always has.

Yes. As not everyone sees it that way, but see it at using the lady to score political points. Like some heroes said in this thread.

 

[Lancecastor]

I thought the widow worship in the speech was a bit overdone.

 

[needit700]

I hope this comes back to big the dem - o craps in the ass

next election. I can't wait to see this party go down in flames!!!! They are the worst of the worst. Anyone who has served in the military at any time on any job should be held in the highest regard. These PIGS who have done NOTHING for America but cry and bitch and take and take and take make me sick! Every serviceman deserves the highest honor and respect. I hope M. Moore and people like him and this ass wipe who called the woman of the SEAL a fool should be taken out in the ally and taught respect!!

 

[Libsam]

Maybe Trump shouldn't have followed through with Obama's planned raid.
We all know Obama's military actions frequently turned in to a shit show.
He did kill Bin Laden, of course the body was dumped overboard.

 

[Ishmael]

Ok that is fair - here is a more direct engagement with the OP: The theory that the leak was in the State Department is one of the critical aspects of what an investigation should be focused on. The investigation should be open, not closed.

Another theory is that the contacts in Yemen crucial to the success of the mission, and who were were just loudly and temporarily banned from the US of A, decided that they needed to leak the mission to save their own ass in case something went bad because running to the US was not going to be an option. This theory needs to be investigated as well, and with equal openness and vigor.

Asserting that the action was previously approved as a way to say this President has no culpability and they were just waiting for a full moon is specious at best. There are hundreds of potential missions that are "ready" any given week. That is why the President has to sign on the dotted line. Also, direct military action in Yemen in the form of an incursion was not Obama Administration policy (this is where we send a shitload of drones). Sending in Seals was making new policy, which was the act of the 6 days-old Trump administration.

So, going into an investigation what seems more believable to me? A cocky, show off of a person, handing his administration with aplomb, wants to throw his weight around as the new President. He makes two specific policy changes (ban and seal incursion) but because they are done without the normal cross departmental consultation designed to avoid conflict, they disastrously collide.

OR - the United States State Department leaked the incursion to the enemy for some unknown but potentially sinister reason all based on loyalty to the previous Administration? And it was the policy review of the incursion that was the issue, when it seems apparent normal channels were not followed?

I will believe the former until the investigation proves otherwise.

I strongly disagree with an "open" investigation. Surest way I know of to turn it into a political witch hunt/pissing contest. Not only that, the leaker's (if that is the case) are not dumb. They're going to go to ground until the smoke clears. A "Canary Trap" operation would probably yield the best results.

Re. the Yemeni contacts. They would NEVER be provided operational details or even whether a raid was planned or not. If they were in possession of the information it would more or less be confirmation of a leak. Further, if the CIA had an operative on the ground that would be compromised by the mission, they'd pull his/her ass out of there, but they wouldn't inform them why. Friendly operatives get special dispensation, they always have.

The New Moon schedule was the reason that the raid took place when it did. The only relevant point there is that is the reason the mission took place on the date it did and why/how Trump inherited it. If the New moon had of occurred on Jan. 18th it would have been Obama's mission.

So how does your logic work here? Trump, wanting to show off, signs off on a mission that has been MONTHS in the planning. Long before he was ever elected, hell, probably started before he even got the nomination. Even if we are to accept your torturous, mind reading, logic just how does that excuse leaking the information?

If it is the result of a purposeful leak, not the stupid procedure, and the leaker(s) are identified. Arrest them, try them by military tribunal for treason, and if found guilty take them out and shoot them. Certainly give any future leaker's pause for consideration.

Ishmael

 

[SyKoKo]

I thought the widow worship in the speech was a bit overdone.

Khan

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Let us take some time to admire the training, resolve and bravery of a group of soldiers compromised by a process they have no control over, their ability to adapt and overcome, to finish their mission and to bring their fallen comrade alone. Praising the fallen, eulogizing and comforting the widow in the most public way possible was a shoutout to the team, to the military and a warning to those who stabbed them in the back; leaks have consequences.

To have a negative take of this beautiful moment really describes who you are, what you think of the military and how your loathing of THE Orange Don completely clouds your judgement, common sense and compassion for those whom have lost.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Khan

Amen.

 

[Adre]

Let us take some time to admire the training, resolve and bravery of a group of soldiers compromised by a process they have no control over, their ability to adapt and overcome, to finish their mission and to bring their fallen comrade alone. Praising the fallen, eulogizing and comforting the widow in the most public way possible was a shoutout to the team, to the military and a warning to those who stabbed them in the back; leaks have consequences.

To have a negative take of this beautiful moment really describes who you are, what you think of the military and how your loathing of THE Orange Don completely clouds your judgement, common sense and compassion for those whom have lost.

And if that had been Obama up there you'd surely be accusing him of milking the moment and using a soldier's death for his own political gain. We all know this.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Let us take some time to admire the training, resolve and bravery of a group of soldiers compromised by a process they have no control over, their ability to adapt and overcome, to finish their mission and to bring their fallen comrade alone. Praising the fallen, eulogizing and comforting the widow in the most public way possible was a shoutout to the team, to the military and a warning to those who stabbed them in the back; leaks have consequences.

To have a negative take of this beautiful moment really describes who you are, what you think of the military and how your loathing of THE Orange Don completely clouds your judgement, common sense and compassion for those whom have lost.

You know who also was enamored of the "Stabbed In The Back" excuse?

The 'Stab in the Back' theory would become hugely popular among many Germans who found it impossible to swallow defeat. During the war, Adolf Hitler became obsessed with this idea, especially laying blame on Jews and Marxists in Germany for undermining the war effort.

LINK

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose​

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

And if that had been Obama up there you'd surely be accusing him of milking the moment and using a soldier's death for his own political gain. We all know this.

I never did that, not once over any Obama speech. Not once.



Now that moobs is here, let us remind everyone how every single day of the Iraq conflict, ThrobDownSouth was here breathlessly reporting the body count; that's how low he and his fellow Democrats are willing to sink...

 

[Ishmael]

And if that had been Obama up there you'd surely be accusing him of milking the moment and using a soldier's death for his own political gain. We all know this.

Well shit for brains, let's see your research ability.

Other than Benghazi name one combat operation authorized by Obama that the repubs jumped in his shit and stayed in his shit.

And quite frankly the beef with Benghazi is that the Big 'O' didn't authorize shit.

Ishmael

 

[Adre]

And if that had been Obama up there you'd surely be accusing him of milking the moment and using a soldier's death for his own political gain. We all know this.

I never did that, not once over any Obama speech. Not once.

Any expert researchers care to take a swing at this one?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Any expert researchers care to take a swing at this one?

Why don't you? You're aways hunting fow wascals...

 

[Conager]

Ok that is fair - here is a more direct engagement with the OP: The theory that the leak was in the State Department is one of the critical aspects of what an investigation should be focused on. The investigation should be open, not closed.

Another theory is that the contacts in Yemen crucial to the success of the mission, and who were were just loudly and temporarily banned from the US of A, decided that they needed to leak the mission to save their own ass in case something went bad because running to the US was not going to be an option. This theory needs to be investigated as well, and with equal openness and vigor.

Asserting that the action was previously approved as a way to say this President has no culpability and they were just waiting for a full moon is specious at best. There are hundreds of potential missions that are "ready" any given week. That is why the President has to sign on the dotted line. Also, direct military action in Yemen in the form of an incursion was not Obama Administration policy (this is where we send a shitload of drones). Sending in Seals was making new policy, which was the act of the 6 days-old Trump administration.

So, going into an investigation what seems more believable to me? A cocky, show off of a person, handing his administration with aplomb, wants to throw his weight around as the new President. He makes two specific policy changes (ban and seal incursion) but because they are done without the normal cross departmental consultation designed to avoid conflict, they disastrously collide.

OR - the United States State Department leaked the incursion to the enemy for some unknown but potentially sinister reason all based on loyalty to the previous Administration? And it was the policy review of the incursion that was the issue, when it seems apparent normal channels were not followed?

I will believe the former until the investigation proves otherwise.

You presume that the mission would have even been acknowledged if it had not been compromised.

This sort of thing works better as a snatch operation where the opposition does not know who and what was taken, and by whom.

 

[Adre]

Why don't you? You're aways hunting fow wascals...

Don't care enough to spend two minutes on it. Besides I suspect my assertion was correct, that's enough for me.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

I strongly disagree with an "open" investigation. Surest way I know of to turn it into a political witch hunt/pissing contest. Not only that, the leaker's (if that is the case) are not dumb. They're going to go to ground until the smoke clears. A "Canary Trap" operation would probably yield the best results.

Re. the Yemeni contacts. They would NEVER be provided operational details or even whether a raid was planned or not. If they were in possession of the information it would more or less be confirmation of a leak. Further, if the CIA had an operative on the ground that would be compromised by the mission, they'd pull his/her ass out of there, but they wouldn't inform them why. Friendly operatives get special dispensation, they always have.

The New Moon schedule was the reason that the raid took place when it did. The only relevant point there is that is the reason the mission took place on the date it did and why/how Trump inherited it. If the New moon had of occurred on Jan. 18th it would have been Obama's mission.

So how does your logic work here? Trump, wanting to show off, signs off on a mission that has been MONTHS in the planning. Long before he was ever elected, hell, probably started before he even got the nomination. Even if we are to accept your torturous, mind reading, logic just how does that excuse leaking the information?

If it is the result of a purposeful leak, not the stupid procedure, and the leaker(s) are identified. Arrest them, try them by military tribunal for treason, and if found guilty take them out and shoot them. Certainly give any future leaker's pause for consideration.

Ishmael

We will never know without an open investigation, so forgive me if I think is the whole point of this being done behind closed doors.