Jeff Sessions is not a social justice warrior ... but what is social justice?

[Ishmael]

I do not believe that blacks or Hispanics are genetically disposed to commit criminal behavior. I don't believe anyone other than a true sociopath would be genetically predisposed to commit crime. Neither do I believe the disproportionate prison population is a direct function of a government campaign initiated by Richard Nixon and, least of all, by John Fucking Ehrlichman. I think the most casual research would show that the overwhelming majority of all races within our prison population come from dramatically disadvantaged backgrounds of poverty and/or dysfunctional families.

But like most bleeding heart liberals, you have the equation backwards. Because minorities disproportionately commit crime you conclude that the criminalization of behaviors such as robbery, assault and illegal drug use constitute a race war conducted by the criminal justice system.

I will grant you that 200 years of government sanctioned slavery in North America followed by another century of government imposed segregation is NOT an easy burden to overcome. But that particular crime does not and should not serve as an indictment against normal criminal sanctions generally as being tantamount to criminalization of black people.

It is simply a damnable lie which the more you get black people to believe it only serves to increase the likelihood that they, too, will become the next victims of it.

The card he's playing is just another form of "Don't make a good boy go bad" resurrected from yet another failed PSA indoctrination campaign. The theory being that we law abiding folks just put sooooooooooo many irresistible temptations in the paths of those poor minorities that they just can't help themselves when they commit crimes and then we, the majority, use the criminal justice system to punich them for crimes we, essentially, forced them into committing.

Logic so convoluted that the populace rose up in outrage when the DoJ tried to float that notion back in the 90's. Perhaps this election is just another uprising. We shall see.

Ishmael

 

[LincolnDuncan]

I do not believe that blacks or Hispanics are genetically disposed to commit criminal behavior. I don't believe anyone other than a true sociopath would be genetically predisposed to commit crime. Neither do I believe the disproportionate prison population is a direct function of a government campaign initiated by Richard Nixon and, least of all, by John Fucking Ehrlichman. I think the most casual research would show that the overwhelming majority of all races within our prison population come from dramatically disadvantaged backgrounds of poverty and/or dysfunctional families.

But like most bleeding heart liberals, you have the equation backwards. Because minorities disproportionately commit crime you conclude that the criminalization of behaviors such as robbery, assault and illegal drug use constitute a race war conducted by the criminal justice system.

I will grant you that 200 years of government sanctioned slavery in North America followed by another century of government imposed segregation is NOT an easy burden to overcome. But that particular crime does not and should not serve as an indictment against normal criminal sanctions generally as being tantamount to criminalization of black people.

It is simply a damnable lie which the more you get black people to believe it only serves to increase the likelihood that they, too, will become the next victims of it.

O.k this is good. We've finally gotten to a point where we can exchange post without feeling the need to trade insults. I'm not insulted by your characterization of me being a bleeding heart liberal. People who know me would think that is very funny. What I am is a guy with a ton of experience in criminal justice that knows for a fact that the way we have been addressing the criminal behavior of black and brown people has not worked to reduce crime. We constantly set people up for failure and the revolving door.

I am going to do some research before I answer your question but I will be back later or tomorrow. I'm going to ask you to consider why every other ethnic group that has immigrated to the US has assimilated and why black people have not.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

I'm going to ask you to consider why every other ethnic group that has immigrated to the US has assimilated and why black people have not.

W2 I just received today shows I paid over $35k in withheld taxes in 2016 alone yet I have not assimilated... please tell that to the IRS so that perhaps i can get my money back.

 

[BotanyBoy]

What I am is a guy with a ton of experience in criminal justice that knows for a fact that the way we have been addressing the criminal behavior of black and brown people has not worked to reduce crime.

Are we treating white criminal behavior differently??

 

[KingOrfeo]

Are we treating white criminal behavior differently??

In sentencing, certainly.

 

[KingOrfeo]

You have NO evidence that the war on drugs only applies to black people and hippies . . .

Of course not, because it doesn't. But that is why Nixon and Ehrlichman started it, to target blacks and hippies, for purely political reasons. Targeting anyone who threatened pharma's profits apparently was not a factor -- at that time, that is.

No that's the opinion of a racist who was there when it was revived.

No, it is an admission by a man who was involved in the Nixon Administration's decision to wage war on drugs. He should know, shouldn't he?

 

[Conager]

Are we treating white criminal behavior differently??

I would submit that we aren't doing anything for or against either population post-incarceration. I'm not sure whether we should or should not.. However I think it is reasonable to note that some of the High recidivism rates among blacks have to do with the dearth of opportunities in there community of origin.

It's understandable that they're going to rejoin those communities when they are released but going to a place of high unemployment and high crime and high drug use is not a formula for success with a felony record.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

W2 I just received today shows I paid over $35k in withheld taxes in 2016 alone yet I have not assimilated... please tell that to the IRS so that perhaps i can get my money back.

Did you not understand that I was generalizing? Do you think that black people (generalization) have not assimilated as seamlessly as every other ethnic group that has immigrated to the US?

 

[BotanyBoy]

In sentencing, certainly.

There is an actual case for that.

But that again gets back to racist individuals, not policy or system.

Of course not, because it doesn't.

So once again I'm hearing that it's not a war on black people or hippies.....but on drugs.

But that is why Nixon and Ehrlichman started it,

They didn't start it, they aren't 6,000 years old.

They just promoted it.

to target blacks and hippies, for purely political reasons. Targeting anyone who threatened pharma's profits apparently was not a factor -- at that time, that is.

No, it is an admission by a man who was involved in the Nixon Administration's decision to wage war on drugs. He should know, shouldn't he?

So the Nixon administration was racist....How does that make the war on drugs a war on black people and hippies, even though they lock white conservative folks up just the same???


That's because no matter how you dress it up, religion, public safety, morality police etc. the war on drugs has been from ancient times to present, about the money.

It's not racism, it's socialism.

 

[KingOrfeo]

So the Nixon administration was racist....

The Nixon Administration was shamelessly cynical. Nixon himself was personally the most vulgar kind of racist, but he had no deep emotional investment for or against the Civil Rights movement, school busing, or any of the rest of it. (Furthermore, he considered all such matters properly unimportant to a POTUS; in Nixon's view, which he held long before he was president, the only essential and important function of the presidency was to make foreign and military policy, and domestic policy was merely a distraction.) But the Black Panthers and other black activists seemed like a genuine political (not criminal) threat at the time. He wanted a pretext to go after them, not because he hated their race but because they were on his enemies list. Likewise, he made an issue of school busing, and ran against it, not because he really disapproved, but to get the white-backlash vote, the Louise Day Hicks kind of voters in the North and a much larger white base in the South, both of which groups had previously voted Democratic almost all the time.

How does that make the war on drugs a war on black people and hippies, even though they lock white conservative folks up just the same???

It is a war on black people and hippies in the sense that they started it as a war on black people and hippies.

 

[LadyFunkenstein]

Did you not understand that I was generalizing? Do you think that black people (generalization) have assimilated as seamlessly as every other ethnic group that has immigrated to the US?

"Black people" = me.

"Some black people" may or may not be me. You went with the former. Because that is what you meant.

You chose your words deliberately because you are a racist. Which is fine, you are free to speak as you like here. But you lose credibility in advancing your arguments which you post as such.

Now that I think of it, you are probably the troll I have on ignore, James Johnson or something like that. Good bye.

 

[KingOrfeo]

They didn't start it, they aren't 6,000 years old.

They started it, all right. Marijuana and heroin had been illegal in the U.S. since the 1920s, practically all enforcement done by the states; but Nixon and Ehrlichman made the decision to ratchet up federal enforcement of the drug laws to a high priority, from which it has never since been ratcheted down. That is the War on Drugs, not their mere illegality.

 

[BotanyBoy]

They started it, all right.

Take a history class sometime guy......governments been waging war on one drug or another for fucking EVER.

Marijuana and heroin had been illegal in the U.S. since the 1920s, practically all enforcement done by the states; but Nixon and Ehrlichman made the decision to ratchet up federal enforcement of the drug laws to a high priority,

Right, they just promoted and pushed what was already there.

from which it has never since been ratcheted down.

Despite every single POTUS having the absolute authority to shit on it.

Gotta get that money!! Think of the party!

Thanks Carter!! Clinton!! Obama!!

That is the War on Drugs, not their mere illegality.

Nixon and his admins racism is not the war on drugs.

Their illegality and the enforcement of it is the actual war on drugs....and it has nothing to do with race and everything to do with money.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Despite every single POTUS having the absolute authority to shit on it.

Most POTI since Nixon didn't want to, and to those who might have, the political risk was too high, because of continuing public (not corporate) hysteria over the issue -- and that public hysteria is largely rooted in racism.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

"Black people" = me.

"Some black people" may or may not be me. You went with the former. Because that is what you meant.

You chose your words deliberately because you are a racist. Which is fine, you are free to speak as you like here. But you lose credibility in advancing your arguments which you post as such.

Now that I think of it, you are probably the troll I have on ignore, James Johnson or something like that. Good bye.

and now I understand why a lot of people think that you're crazy

 

[BotanyBoy]

Most POTI since Nixon didn't want to,

Not a SINGLE ONE!!!

and to those who might have, the political risk was too high, because of continuing public (not corporate) hysteria over the issue

Well they push the hysteria for the corporations, it's their job, it's what they have muti mega BILLION dollar campaigns for when they should be stuck on PBS and barred from taking any money from anyone.

and that public hysteria is largely rooted in racism.

https://mortgagehorror.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/brain-on-drugs.jpg?w=452&h=339

Ohhhhh the racist boogeyman!!!

It's around every corner lurking in the ether waiting to strike and oppress non-white non-male people!!

LOL get real KO....the war on drugs isn't racist even though some of the people/factors/pols and sponsors who push it might be.

But then again you can say that about damn near anything political.

 

[KingOrfeo]

https://mortgagehorror.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/brain-on-drugs.jpg?w=452&h=339

Ohhhhh the racist boogeyman!!!

It's around every corner lurking in the ether waiting to strike and oppress non-white non-male people!!

LOL get real KO....the war on drugs isn't racist even though some of the people/factors/pols and sponsors who push it might be.

But then again you can say that about damn near anything political.

Look, you know the facts:

1. While things have changed since the '70s, there is still considerable public prejudice against drugs and drug use and drug dealing, and a great many people -- probably the majority in most states -- who want those things to remain criminalized and suppressed.

2. Some of them might want that for good or at least arguable reasons (a debate for another time, if necessary).

3. But many of them are prejudiced against drug use because they associate it with racial minorities and consider it an element of black criminality.

4. And none of them are so prejudiced because they care a rat's ass about Big Pharma's bottom line.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Look, you know the facts:

1. While things have changed since the '70s, there is still considerable public prejudice against drugs and drug use and drug dealing, and a great many people -- probably the majority in most states -- who want those things to remain criminalized and suppressed.

Yep.

3. But many of them are prejudiced against drug use because they associate it with racial minorities and consider it an element of black criminality.

Yes, there are racist in the world. So what?

This is the USA, people are free to be assholes, it might as well be a right....1A should just read "The right to be an asshole!! Infringe it? Get the fuck outta' heaaaaaa!!!"

4. And none of them are so prejudiced because they care a rat's ass about Big Pharma's bottom line.

I never said they were.

None of this makes the war on drugs racist.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Yes, there are racist in the world. So what?

So you and your industry and its clientele would have a far easier time of it if there were fewer. In that sense, the WOD is rooted in racism.

 

[BotanyBoy]

So you and your industry and its clientele would have a far easier time of it if there were fewer.

Well I'm not in the industry, (D)'s decided it was for rich and elite 1% Californians only....big shocker there!

(D) elitism basically put 99% of the CA cannabis industry back into the black market.

And Trump's folks are out for blood so I expect summer 2017 to be a rough one for NorCal.





But no they wouldn't have a far easier time if there were fewer racist...they love drugs and want to give me money for them.

Racist don't wage war on drugs or the non rich people who sell them....

The KKK doesn't kick my door in, beat my ass, shoot all my animals including the betta fish, steal all my shit and throw me in prison.

The fucking government does.

Thanks socialism!

In that sense, the WOD is rooted in racism.

Yea that's about as remote as WOD is racist because Nixon was.

The WOD has been promoted by manipulating peoples racism in the past, but it's not really like that today and hasn't been since the Reagan admin really.

The WOD is really rooted in money and controlling who gets how much of it.

Big pharma simply would not make the money they do without the US government as their personal goon squad.

FDA, USDA, EPA, DEA, ATF....all little more than fancy mob enforcers for the big money cartels.

 

[Hard_Rom]

LOL, your share of what!?

Justice, opportunity for advancement, a better wage, good housing, better access to health care...
All the benefits that living in a community and society bring.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Justice, opportunity for advancement, a better wage, good housing, better access to health care...
All the benefits that living in a community and society bring.

What groups are being shortchanged in any of those categories?

Here come the crickets again.

 

[water505]

Justice, opportunity for advancement, a better wage, good housing, better access to health care...
All the benefits that living in a community and society bring.

In my country most of those things are available for anyone who is willing to work for them. They aren't rights bestowed on people just because they live and breathe.

 

[Ishmael]

Social Justice is you not disturbing my life, liberty, property, or causing me any harm whatsoever, and I'll afford you the same courtesy's in return.

Social Justice is NOT giving you money, food, housing, or any more re-numeration for your time than you can earn, on your own, on the open market. The employee does NOT determine what the job is worth. The job belongs to the employer and the employees name is merely penciled in........temporarily.

Neither I nor society owes you a damn thing. Anything you receive in that respect is charity and that can change at anytime, and it most likely will. So the wise move would be to try to improve yourself. If you choose not to that is your right as a member of a free society, so if your choice is to wallow in the gutter, just remember whose choice it was.

Ishmael

 

[BotanyBoy]

In my country most of those things are available for anyone who is willing to work for them. They aren't rights bestowed on people just because they live and breathe.

I was gonna say, Canada must be a whole lot more racist than the USA becaus we don't have those problems.