Here we go again, insanity and guns.

[Ishmael]

I think there is enough information out there now concerning the Ft. Lauderdale shooter to conclude that he's a certifiable whack job. So where do we go from here?

Every single pro 2nd amendment organization out there agrees that the certifiably insane should have their 2nd amendment right stripped away (I would add voting to the list as well). No one but no one is arguing that point. The debate is over how to go about achieving that goal?

ACLU driven lawsuits and the subsequent SCOTUS decisions re. same have made it damn near impossible to institutionalize the whack jobs. Those suits and decisions go back to the mid 1970's and are the reason that the mental institutions were emptied out. Which is why, not in-coincidentally, there are so many whack jobs (most of the 'homeless' fall into that category) walking the streets today.

So how do you go about legitimately stripping an individual of their constitutional rights? A test? Who devises this 'test' and how is it administered? A complete psychiatric evaluation, who pays for it? Who selects the shrinks? How is it appealed if the results are against the individual being evaluated?

Got some notions on the subject?

Ishmael

 

[Saint Peter]

The Constitution says nothing about my sanity when it comes to owning weapons.

Get some body armor and stop crying like a little pussy about it. When your time comes, it comes.

 

[Queertag45]

*chuckles*

 

[Ms_Ann]

Some insanity is only temporary in the eyes of the law.

 

[Conager]

I think there is enough information out there now concerning the Ft. Lauderdale shooter to conclude that he's a certifiable whack job. So where do we go from here?

Every single pro 2nd amendment organization out there agrees that the certifiably insane should have their 2nd amendment right stripped away (I would add voting to the list as well). No one but no one is arguing that point. The debate is over how to go about achieving that goal?

ACLU driven lawsuits and the subsequent SCOTUS decisions re. same have made it damn near impossible to institutionalize the whack jobs. Those suits and decisions go back to the mid 1970's and are the reason that the mental institutions were emptied out. Which is why, not in-coincidentally, there are so many whack jobs (most of the 'homeless' fall into that category) walking the streets today.

So how do you go about legitimately stripping an individual of their constitutional rights? A test? Who devises this 'test' and how is it administered? A complete psychiatric evaluation, who pays for it? Who selects the shrinks? How is it appealed if the results are against the individual being evaluated?

Got some notions on the subject?

Ishmael

Civil liberties aside, the cost of behavioral health way we are doint it is insane. Far cheaper to centralize those needing care. I assume that we're helping people cost about the same amount as prisons probably a little bit less because with drugs you got a little more compliant populace. Call it 20k per year per patient. We are spending far more than that on various Behavioral Health Centers and case managers, various benefits like housing and transportation.

If you get three doctors saying that it's better for the person to be institutionalized than outside... in they go. You separate doctors on these panels from having anything to do with profit incentives of those that are institutionalized so the decision makers are not the caregivers.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Civil liberties aside, the cost of behavioral health way we are doint it is insane. Far cheaper to centralize those needing care. I assume that we're helping people cost about the same amount as prisons probably a little bit less because with drugs you got a little more compliant populace. Call it 20k per year per patient.

Seriously?

That's a government contract to big pharma bro....20k per year per patient my ass. 200 million a year per patient.

Gotta buy those 20,000 dollar Advils and shit.

It would be just more 200,000 dollar toilet seats and 500 dollar boxes of #2 pencils.

Total cost of mental HC in the US by the time it's all said and done? 28 TRILLION a year...

 

[about_average]

Hopefully that would include institutionalizing the people who claim Merrick Garland is an anti-gun nut.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Et maintenant, la rationalisation et les excuses

 

[Conager]

Seriously?

That's a government contract to big pharma bro....20k per year per patient my ass. 200 million a year per patient.

Gotta buy those 20,000 dollar Advils and shit.

It would be just more 200,000 dollar toilet seats and 500 dollar boxes of #2 pencils.

Total cost of mental HC in the US by the time it's all said and done? 28 TRILLION a year...

100%, but medicaid is already giving big pharma the money. Difference is we are transporting the guy from case manager to clinic to pharmacy to home (that we pay for) he then sells 1/2 his zanax to get what he really wants, cycles in and out of in-patient. Easier and cheaper to centralize them.

 

[Adre]

*chuckles*

*shrugs*

 

[about_average]

100%, but medicaid is already giving big pharma the money. Difference is we are transporting the guy from case manager to clinic to pharmacy to home (that we pay for) he then sells 1/2 his zanax to get what he really wants, cycles in and out of in-patient. Easier and cheaper to centralize them.

Care to provide the evidence you have that Santiago was traveling at the expense of taxpayers?

 

[Conager]

Care to provide the evidence you have that Santiago was traveling at the expense of taxpayers?

No.

If this is something that truly interest you simply call your local office for whatever your state calls Medicaid and ask to talk to the transportation department.

Or, easier, spend 20 minutes outside a behavioral health clinic and watch taxis, vans and mini-buses disembarking passengers. Assess their sartorial chp8ces and ask yourself how they can afford the cab ride.

 

[about_average]

No...

It was a rhetorical question, people know quite well you never provide any evidence of the claims you make.
Rather, any evidence that isn't patently false.

 

[Conager]

It was a rhetorical question, people know quite well you never provide any evidence of the claims you make.
Rather, any evidence that isn't patently false.

I see I should have left it at "No."

Quite the contrary when I feel like it I research it down to the very last nub of it and then watch you just simply quietly slink away.

I'm still waiting for your cogent rebuttal to when you DEMANDED to know (as you usually do, "What SPECIFIC law was broken?!??" In the Lois Lerner case. I gave you statute numbers, statute texts, links thereto, professional commetary on cases prosecuted. You faded. Like you always do when anyone bothers to "prove" something to you. You obviously get off on trying to make people jump through hoops no matter how obvious and answer is. A person with any sense of Integrity would say, "Oh. Well, thanks I didn't know that." Instead of walking away like the cowardly pussy that you are.

I've said it before, people engaged in spirited cnversation and debate before it was even POSSIBLE to google for a citation.

 

[phrodeau]

If you really want to take away a Constitutional right, change the Constitution. That will make it a lot easier.

 

[Comshaw]

I think there is enough information out there now concerning the Ft. Lauderdale shooter to conclude that he's a certifiable whack job. So where do we go from here?

Every single pro 2nd amendment organization out there agrees that the certifiably insane should have their 2nd amendment right stripped away (I would add voting to the list as well). No one but no one is arguing that point. The debate is over how to go about achieving that goal?

ACLU driven lawsuits and the subsequent SCOTUS decisions re. same have made it damn near impossible to institutionalize the whack jobs. Those suits and decisions go back to the mid 1970's and are the reason that the mental institutions were emptied out. Which is why, not in-coincidentally, there are so many whack jobs (most of the 'homeless' fall into that category) walking the streets today.

So how do you go about legitimately stripping an individual of their constitutional rights? A test? Who devises this 'test' and how is it administered? A complete psychiatric evaluation, who pays for it? Who selects the shrinks? How is it appealed if the results are against the individual being evaluated?

Got some notions on the subject?

Ishmael

The Individual Gun Access Prevention by Court Order, Initiative 1491, was on the November 8, 2016, ballot in Washington as an Initiative to the People, a type of initiated state statute.[1] It was approved.

A "yes" vote supported authorizing courts to issue extreme risk protection orders to remove an individual's access to firearms.

A "no" vote opposed authorizing courts to issue extreme risk protection orders remove an individual's access to firearms.

Election results
Initiative 1491
Result Votes Percentage
Yes 2,234,799 69.39%
No 985,658 30.61%

https://ballotpedia.org/Washington_Individual_Gun_Access_Prevention_by_Court_Order,_Initiative_1491_(2016)

Comshaw

 

[Conager]

Do.lets begin your education on a subject you know nothing about, and have so little petsonsl integrity, that you cannot imagine taking someone st their word thst they know something about a given subject.

Here is the Fefs discussing the problem of trandportation as it relstes to treatment of all mamner of ongoing medical treatments. I suppose next you're going to want to know how I can possibly claim without a citation that behavioral health falls under Medical Care and is an ongoing continuing treatment.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4265215/

Now it's entirely possible that your state is in some way less progressive than solid red AZ but here we transport people to theiir appointments who are on medicaid and do not have personal transportation. We also transport them when it is medically not advisable that they transport themselves one of the most common examples is the two or three times a week to dialysis patients go to dialysis. They are picked up and returned home.

As I google for confirmation bias, it looks like some places for some treatment centers provide their own fleet at clinic expense:

http://www.behavioral.net/article/5-best-practices-patient-transportation-services

Guess who pays the majority of clinic expenses post obamacare (temporary) medicaid expansion?



Behavioral Health treatmemt is covered under Access and/or Mercy care for a very wide range of conditions including addiction recovery.

Some things are expressly not covered. For example Mercy Care will not cover daily methadone treatment transportation. Various other free or low-cost transportation providers are available for example Dial-A-Ride for those that are considered handicapped somebody on methadone can't drive, so for transportation purposes are considered handicapped they qualify for Dial-A-Ride. Some methadone clinics provide their own transportation services at their own expense which makes sense because one particular clinic that I notice a lot a lot of activity coming in and out of has 800 patients a day.

I could go on for pages and days and it wouldn't make one fucking difference to the point that I was making that you attacked just because you thought you could scream cite? Cite? Cite? Cite? like the pedantic asshole that you are.

I would love to watch you pull this stunt in a bar somewhere although I can't picture somebody with your obvious poor social skills actually engaging in a spirited conversation with another human being without Google at your fingertips. On a serious note- what would you actually do if you were having even a mild disagreement with someone in what passes for your real life? Do you actually whip out your phone and show them citations and links and demand that they do the same? Really? Is this what modern life is? I have never in any conversation I've ever had in real life had anyone ever ask me for a citation.

If you have a counterpoint to make, make your fucking counterpoint. If you think somebody's blowing smoke and not worthy of response, then ignore them. This business of demanding "CITE?!??' for whether or not toenails grow on a regular basis is fucking stupid.

 

[Disgustipated]

I've said it before, people engaged in spirited cnversation* and debate before it was even POSSIBLE to google for a citation.

That's totally true sans the *toast moment. The problem for you is that you spew numbers with no backup and then leave threads. I'm sure you've backed up a couple, but overall, you spew and run.

As far as the OP goes, dumb people sell guns to dumber people. Idiocracy at its finest, indeed.

 

[Conager]

That's totally true sans the *toast moment. The problem for you is that you spew numbers with no backup and then leave threads. I'm sure you've backed up a couple, but overall, you spew and run.

As far as the OP goes, dumb people sell guns to dumber people. Idiocracy at its finest, indeed.

That is exactly what I mean. What "backuo?" There is NONE in real life. If you know a number, you know a numbet, if you know an estimate of a number, you know that.

Example: I remember reading don't know where don't care where the Democrats hold the legislature in a handful of states where they also have the governor. Now I remembered that number is 5 but I couldn't remember if it was exactly 5 so when I wrote that I wrote "about five" which covers it whether it's four five six or seven I figure. Turns out the correct number is 6. Eyer happened to know the exact number and put down some interesting numbers that fleshed that out. He didnt do it by arguing I was "wrong" and that 6 is not "about 5" the fact that he knew numbers that I didn't, added to the conversation. If somebody else standing around wanted to say "Bullshit Democrats have a lot more than 5!" in which case I would say oh really? How many do you think they have? " I don't know I think they have 12 or 13" or whatever it is that they think you don't have to fucking know the exact number to have a conversation. Especially since the only point I was making is that there are a lot more Republican safe spaces in the country at the moment then Democratic safe spaces. But all of that gets lost in conversation around this place for everyone demands a cite for this and a cite for that which is just fucking stupid.

On another subject I've been meaning to ask you- I don't really get the toast meme thing. Where does it come from, what does that actually mean?

 

[Disgustipated]

That is exactly what I mean. What "backuo?" There is NONE in real life. If you know a number, you know a numbet, if you know an estimate of a number, you know that.

Example: I remember reading don't know where don't care where the Democrats hold the legislature in a handful of states where they also have the governor. Now I remembered that number is 5 but I couldn't remember if it was exactly 5 so when I wrote that I wrote "about five" which covers it whether it's four five six or seven I figure. Turns out the correct number is 6. Eyer happened to know the exact number and put down some interesting numbers that fleshed that out. He didnt do it by arguing I was "wrong" and that 6 is not "about 5" the fact that he knew numbers that I didn't, added to the conversation. If somebody else standing around wanted to say "Bullshit Democrats have a lot more than 5!" in which case I would say oh really? How many do you think they have? " I don't know I think they have 12 or 13" or whatever it is that they think you don't have to fucking know the exact number to have a conversation. Especially since the only point I was making is that there are a lot more Republican safe spaces in the country at the moment then Democratic safe spaces. But all of that gets lost in conversation around this place for everyone demands a cite for this and a cite for that which is just fucking stupid.

On another subject I've been meaning to ask you- I don't really get the toast meme thing. Where does it come from, what does that actually mean?

It's not about 5 being six. I'm talking about entire paragraphs where you just rattle off several numbers in several sentences with nothing. No link, no actual research, not even, "A drunk hillbilly told me this one night."

I'm not sure what most of the rest of that mess means. Are you typing on a waffle iron tonight?

I'm also talking about numbers like Obama's $1.5 billion a day trip to the middle east or Drumpf foolishly talking about 45% being the real unemployment number.

And what meme are you on about?

 

[renard_ruse]

It was a Puerto Rican jihadi.

He was inspired by ISIS voices in his head.

The liberals/media are going to have another epic fail if they try to make this an anti-gun issue. People aren't stupid and don't fall for this anymore. Let them try though, it always fails for them at the ballot box. They never seem to learn this is a loser issue for them.

 

[renard_ruse]

...And what meme are you on about?

Only liberals, media, and the NWO establishment use memes, dude.

But I think you know that. Perhaps the only thing you know, but you do know that.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Only liberals, media, and the NWO establishment use memes, dude.

https://m.hrc.onl/secretary/05-feed/04-sept/30-trump-meme/trump-meme-feed-inline-3.jpg

https://saboteur365.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/trump-frog-border2.jpg

https://m.hrc.onl/secretary/05-feed/04-sept/30-trump-meme/trump-meme-feed-inline.jpg

http://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/donald-trump-gives-hillary-clinton-pepe-frog-drawing-meme.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRL6sVJUkAASbHE.png

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vwz5G0ySs7M/maxresdefault.jpg

http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/print-edition/20160917_USD001_0.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/d89c6ef4e2a9cb491ea2776f11c677ad/tumblr_nzzn6fhB801v33hszo1_1280.png

https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0HlvtIPzPdt2usKs/200.gif#3

well, actually...

http://33.media.tumblr.com/219b11e09538ffc6d10489700b260766/tumblr_nels72aZ9l1u0y8l9o1_500.gif

 

[Disgustipated]

I'm surprised ruse hasn't abandoned this life long ago.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Do.lets begin your education on a subject you know nothing about, and have so little petsonsl integrity, that you cannot imagine taking someone st their word thst they know something about a given subject.

Given your long documented board history of alts, sock puppets and lying, you are probably the last person to lecture ANYONE on personal integrity. You should never be taken at your word on any subject.

Here is the Fefs discussing the problem of trandportation as it relstes to treatment of all mamner of ongoing medical treatments.

The above sounds like you are either hyperventilating or having a stroke. Or both. It's all good.

If you have a counterpoint to make, make your fucking counterpoint. If you think somebody's blowing smoke and not worthy of response, then ignore them. This business of demanding "CITE?!??' for whether or not toenails grow on a regular basis is fucking stupid.

Shorter Queerbait: "My mouth got caught writing a check my ass can't cash. Waaaaah!"