First story -- Dealing with emotional feedback

[mistakenconfidence]

Hello there, authors of Literotica.

I would first like to apologize for the long post, and say that I appreciate any and all help and advice veterans of this site and forum are willing to provide. Some brief backstory here, I am a 26 yr old girl who first discovered this site in secret in my early teens, and have been addicted ever since. After more than a decade of reading and exploring the site, I have decided to come forward and share a story of my own, for better or for worse.

I want to state this up front, that my story is not a fun one -- and that is the source of my problem. It is about a very dark time in a girl's life, and while my story is graphic and sexual in detail, the overarching theme is very emotional, intense, and well... just unpleasant to most.

My story is called His Favorite Niece and as the title would imply, I put it in the Incest/Taboo category. However, in the two days since it has been published, my inbox has been awash with feedback and complaints that my story has been miscategorized, meaning that it should have been put into Nonconsent/Reluctance instead. I have since put in for an edit for the change, which is pending. I hadn't considered it at the time, but my take away now is that putting my story in the incest category has misled people as to the tone of my story, resulting in one anonymous comment that upset me to the point where I'm strongly considering deleting my story altogether:

"This story made me relive one of my own worst nightmares. Definetly not erotic but certainly powerful. Maybe this should be under non-consentual since the primary thrust of the story is less about the incestuous relationship and more about the domination and repeated rape of the girl. This story turned me off completely but I was unable to stop reading. I guarantee I will be having nigtmares tonight."

This comment brought me to tears immediately. This was not at all the intent of sharing my story. It hit me after reading this that most anything I've read on here with the exception of a select few, have been much, much more lighthearted than mine. Literotica, on top of being a hidden pastime of mine, has long been a pleasant escape from issues in my own life -- sort of the antithesis of my own contribution here.

Does anyone have any advice for how to better approach publishing a story like mine onto this site? Or it very well could be that Literotica is just not the place for my tale, and I should consider taking it elsewhere. Part of me wants to take it down, but then another part of me thinks that it's important to get it out that there is darkness that lives in this sexual world we are all so enthralled in.

I am just having a hard time with the fact that my story could hurt others. Honest opinions are appreciated, and apologies for posting on such a serious topic amongst all the fun on this site. Another thing, as my post crests 20,000+ views in just two days, I honestly never expected my story to reach an audience here. Unfamiliar with how stories are shared, I just assumed that my story would be thrown in with the hundreds of thousands of stories here and seldom be found, but now that I see how the New section works, it's clear that I was very much mistaken.

Any and all feedback is welcome. If anyone has a suggestion for a more appropriate outlet for my story, I would very much like to hear it. Also, if anyone has feedback on my writing, that too would be appreciated. I am very much an amateur.

Sincerely yours,
Ally

 

[CyranoJ]

Full disclosure: I'm really not the biggest fan of a large portion of Lit's Incest readership. The Incest category on Lit is extremely and in some cases alarmingly dedicated, on the whole, to believing and portraying its kink as "happy and fluffy," generally unproblematic and not dark or troubling in any way at all. In some cases it reaches the point of outright aggressive delusion / denial, and certain partisans of the category are invested in (and very much up themselves about) having a sense of moral superiority, literally to the point of seeing the struggle for the acceptance of incest as analogous to that for gay rights.

The upshot of all that is that any story that acknowledges the darker side of the kink is likely to have a very, very rough ride in that category. I just straight-up do not write for the Incest category here for that reason (though I initially considered it). Many readers seem to go there to be reassured that incest truly is light and romantic and life-affirming. So if your story treats incest at all realistically or brings any element of the dark and troublesome to the proceedings, you can expect to be swamped with negativity. (Doubly so in that it is also perhaps Lit's single most popular category.)

If your story involves any admission that incest kink and NC/R kink are closely related, or that there is a much darker dimension to the proceedings, you're probably better off categorizing it in NC/R or maybe even Erotic Horror.

 

[CyranoJ]

(accidental duplicate post)

 

[SamScribble]

Ally, every reader is going to have a slightly different take on your story.

As writers, we tend to write what we would like to read. (That's my opinion, anyway.) But what readers want to read is often a different matter. If 20k people read your story (or at least started to read your story) there are almost certainly going to be many, many different responses. At this stage, I'd suggest that you accept the best (most useful) of the comments and put the rest aside for another day.

After posting here for a few years, I think that I have about 50 readers. And that's just fine. The others ... thousand and thousand of them ... well, they are 'the others'.

Oh, and welcome to the AH.

Sam

 

[AlliaPotestas]

Hi Mistaken Confidence,

I have had a quick glance at the submission (not read it sorry, on my way out the door, also incest is not really my thing for similar reasons to your critic). I notice at the start you warn readers it gets quite emotional and anyone with an aversion to taboo should look away.

If publishing anything in the same vein, I would be explicit that it contains rape as it is a trigger for many, taboo doesn't cut it for me because given the category I would assume you are referring to the incest.

Good luck, and welcome to lit!

AP

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I'm old as hell and senile. Life has taught me that I get as many ass whoops from doing good as I get from doing bad. Regardless of what you do someone wants to sic the dog on you. Its always something.

 

[HeyAll]

Don't feel bad. The person knew and kept reading . Writing is about entertaining and telling stories . You've certainly seem to have done that.

Also, I saw your post where you apologized to readers. Don’t do that. Just move on and keep doing your thing.

 

[Nezhul]

First of all, don't be discouraged by these comments. As I see it, the comment that upset you most is still very positive to you as an author, it just complains about the lack of forwarning in your story about some of the more disturbing themes.

When choosing a category, you should always choose the heaviest one. For example if it has both incest and BDSM - you go for BDSM. If it has rape - you go for non-consent. If it has a tentacle monster-brother who's raping the heroine - you go for non-human.

And then, when your category is chosen, you should always warn your readers about controversial stuff. Just because otherwise complainers will arrive. This is simply how the internet works - there are a lot of readers who want to read an exact type of story and think that they are at the same time qualified to abuse and criticize any story that diverges from their tastes based on that and that alone.

You would find that in Loving Wives or Romance categories you simply can not, for the life of you, put in ANYTHING original. Those readers will eat you alive if you do, because they want the same story with different names and sex positions.

Having said that, I always include a disclaimer in the story that covers all controversial aspects. Tags help too. This may be considered a spoiler (and it is) but if you want to protect yourself from such feedback - you have to do that here, on lit. Too many haters, too many people who are limited and narrow-minded.

 

[PapaRomantic]

Ally - When I read your story, I was hoping that it was fiction, just because it disturbed me so much. I was extremely angry at the uncle AND the mother - probably more mad at her, for basically abandoning you like she did.

But now I want you to know that my heart goes out to you. I spent 26 years of my life teaching and working with children, and as I read your story, my protective mode kicked in. All I wanted to do was reach out to you and let you know that you are a person of worth, and I hoped that you were being loved for more than the things that were done to you in your story.

I think your private message function is turned off. I would love to speak with you more about this - no motives other than friend to friend.

As for where to put your story, that's a tough one, because I think if anywhere you put it, there are going to be fetish people from that category reading it and finding pleasure from the pain you went through. It's a tough call, but I can guarantee you that if you want more people to read it, the incest category is the best choice, as you found out by the number of readers in such a short time.

Please feel free to private message me if you would like to talk more. I wish you nothing but the best in the future!

 

[Handley_Page]

You really have achieved something with your story.
"This story turned me off completely but I was unable to stop reading. I guarantee I will be having nigtmares tonight."

You obviously have the gift.
Take heart and keep writing.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

LIT needs a snowflake sanctuary where the skies aren't cloudy all day, and seldom is heard a discouraging word.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Sorry for your pain. I don't mean the handling of the story itself, but the real life events that fed it. You, like many others that read and write here, have had a bad time.

But rather than dwell on a stranger's life, I'll confine myself to your question. Neither the Incest category nor the Non-Con categories here are what they sound like they are, and they both have a set of fans who take a dim view of certain things.

Incest is fairy tale land, where daddies get to boink enthusiastic daughters and daughters get some sort of emotional support from their daddy's interest. Clearly that's nothing like real-world incest. As far as I can tell the readers of the category are either guys who want to fuck their own daughters, or women who have been abused and are looking for some way to mentally categorize their abuse as loving or at least bonding. Or get off on reliving abuse, which sadly is a real thing. People who actually read and write incest - I don't - can probably fill in other kinds of readers, but the types I mentioned would not like your story. That is not your fault; I think you get a gold star for telling it like it is, however painful. But it won't go over well, as you've learned.

Noncon is if anything weirder. Rape isn't allowed there except in the sense that forceful sex with a reluctant or even unwilling partner is ok IF the victim decides she likes it during/afterwards, Stories like that are fairy tales too; rape victims who come to love their rapist are rarely in a good place emotionally. A lot of what is in non-con is really reluctance, which is very different.

The usual rules of thumb: if it's got male gay scenes, then no matter what else it goes in Gay. If not and it has family scenes, it goes in Incest. If not and it has males breaking rules to get sex, it goes in Non-con. After that, whatever suits. The idea behind these rules of thumb is that some people are VERY squicked by gay, incest and forced sex scenes, so you reduce the number of very upset people by confining your stuff to those categories, in perhaps that order. But as you've seen, it doesn't mean everyone is happy.

Congratulations on bringing a little truth to fairytale land. If you like writing, keep writing. Reader feedback means very little here, and neither do scores. Write what you like to write (or maybe need to write) - for yourself, not for others. If you write well you'll get a following. If not, you'll at least have spoken truth to power - or at least truth to some of the more fucked up denizens of incest fantasy land, which is no bad thing.

 

[Bramblethorn]

This comment brought me to tears immediately. This was not at all the intent of sharing my story. It hit me after reading this that most anything I've read on here with the exception of a select few, have been much, much more lighthearted than mine. Literotica, on top of being a hidden pastime of mine, has long been a pleasant escape from issues in my own life -- sort of the antithesis of my own contribution here.

Does anyone have any advice for how to better approach publishing a story like mine onto this site? Or it very well could be that Literotica is just not the place for my tale, and I should consider taking it elsewhere. Part of me wants to take it down, but then another part of me thinks that it's important to get it out that there is darkness that lives in this sexual world we are all so enthralled in.

There's room for dark stuff around here; I've seen other authors who posted stories about their own RL traumas. General rule of thumb, if you're posting stuff that's likely to squick readers it's probably good manners to give them some warning of the content up front.

When choosing a category, you should always choose the heaviest one. For example if it has both incest and BDSM - you go for BDSM.

Enh. I'd be unimpressed to find incest in BDSM, unless it was suitably flagged up front. But then BDSM already has way too much content that really ought to be in non-con...

You would find that in Loving Wives or Romance categories you simply can not, for the life of you, put in ANYTHING original. Those readers will eat you alive if you do, because they want the same story with different names and sex positions.

Well, the LW crowd will probably eat you no matter what you do.

 

[colddiesel]

Tell your complainant to fuck off and die (at least think it!). You owe your readers absolutely nothing on this site. Your writing is free to them - repeat, your writing. Don't compromise at all, write what you like, post it wherever you like.

Don't apologize - even if you think you should - in fact, especially if you think you should. If you start compromising to save the feelings of the readership you will end up writing anodyne crap.

Your only responsibility is to your own honesty and self respect. Carry on as you have been and you will produce more good stuff. If readers end up terrified, having nightmares, bawling their eyes out, that's great - because you got inside their head, you got a fundamental response and that's good story telling.

Well done - and don't let the bastards get you down.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

I read this story and I agree with the comments.

This is fundamentally a Non-Consent story, with a big dose of Mind Control tossed in. Your description was accurate. It's about "a girl being taken advantage of." That's the driving force, not the incestuous relationship. There is no doubt it belongs in a category that likes to explore those kinds of "taking advantage of" and sex slave kind of relationships.

It should be moved to Non-Consent.

Or perhaps the "Plea For Help" Section

Hello there, authors of Literotica.

I would first like to apologize for the long post, and say that I appreciate any and all help and advice veterans of this site and forum are willing to provide. Some brief backstory here, I am a 26 yr old girl who first discovered this site in secret in my early teens, and have been addicted ever since. After more than a decade of reading and exploring the site, I have decided to come forward and share a story of my own, for better or for worse.

I want to state this up front, that my story is not a fun one -- and that is the source of my problem. It is about a very dark time in a girl's life, and while my story is graphic and sexual in detail, the overarching theme is very emotional, intense, and well... just unpleasant to most.

My story is called His Favorite Niece and as the title would imply, I put it in the Incest/Taboo category. However, in the two days since it has been published, my inbox has been awash with feedback and complaints that my story has been miscategorized, meaning that it should have been put into Nonconsent/Reluctance instead. I have since put in for an edit for the change, which is pending. I hadn't considered it at the time, but my take away now is that putting my story in the incest category has misled people as to the tone of my story, resulting in one anonymous comment that upset me to the point where I'm strongly considering deleting my story altogether:



This comment brought me to tears immediately. This was not at all the intent of sharing my story. It hit me after reading this that most anything I've read on here with the exception of a select few, have been much, much more lighthearted than mine. Literotica, on top of being a hidden pastime of mine, has long been a pleasant escape from issues in my own life -- sort of the antithesis of my own contribution here.

Does anyone have any advice for how to better approach publishing a story like mine onto this site? Or it very well could be that Literotica is just not the place for my tale, and I should consider taking it elsewhere. Part of me wants to take it down, but then another part of me thinks that it's important to get it out that there is darkness that lives in this sexual world we are all so enthralled in.

I am just having a hard time with the fact that my story could hurt others. Honest opinions are appreciated, and apologies for posting on such a serious topic amongst all the fun on this site. Another thing, as my post crests 20,000+ views in just two days, I honestly never expected my story to reach an audience here. Unfamiliar with how stories are shared, I just assumed that my story would be thrown in with the hundreds of thousands of stories here and seldom be found, but now that I see how the New section works, it's clear that I was very much mistaken.

Any and all feedback is welcome. If anyone has a suggestion for a more appropriate outlet for my story, I would very much like to hear it. Also, if anyone has feedback on my writing, that too would be appreciated. I am very much an amateur.

Sincerely yours,
Ally

 

[mistakenconfidence]

Wow, thank you all for the encouraging feedback. I'm not entirely sure what I was expecting, but I was definitely bracing myself for some backlash. I guess I'm just getting a little too in my own head about all this and maybe I should just leave well enough alone.

The overall consensus seems to be to move the story to Nonconsent. I also made a slight edit to the preface to make the "forced" aspect more apparent. I think part of the problem is I can't help but feel a little sick to my stomach at the idea of someone actually reading my story, and was a bit overwhelmed at the response. I almost wish I could have posted my question here without actually linking to my story, but with no context, asking here would have been pointless.

This has been very helpful, thank you all again for the words and consideration. I think my takeaway is to keep my head down and just keep writing, and let the response be what it is. I considered turning comments and rating off, but that felt cowardly as a writer.

I turned my PMs on, for those who asked.

Sincerely yours,
Ally

Edit:

As for where to put your story, that's a tough one, because I think if anywhere you put it, there are going to be fetish people from that category reading it and finding pleasure from the pain you went through.

As twisted as it may sound (still dealing with my own issues here), I am ashamed to say that this is part of the reason this story is so graphic, and moreover is why it's on Literotica in the first place.

Or perhaps the "Plea For Help" Section

I appreciate the help and insight, but I would like to make it clear that sympathy is the last thing I'm looking for. There's a reason why only two people in my life know my story.

 

[Nezhul]

You can make it so that only registered users will comment. No "Anonymous". That decreases the amount of negative feedback, but the number of comments in general too.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

If erotica should serve the demand of sociological realism, then it should apply to all categories.

For example, sex trafficking and real, brutal, rape should become the standards for the Non-Con section and what it "should" portray. If you write about sex slaves, then I want to read about real sex slaves, like, chained up in containers somewhere. "Non-Consent?" "Rape?"

It's a pretty undisputed fact that Incest Erotica readers loathe Non-Con and anything BDSM-y.

This is the standard assumption (almost always coming from people who write NC): They don't like it because it is too close to the actual reality of incest.

This would be wrong, and a misunderstanding of the Incest Erotica Genre, and is generally spouted by people who do not write or read it.

The vast majority of readers loathe NC and Violence and sex slaves and all that crap because that has never been part of their experience. On the contrary, most people drawn to Incest FANTASY are coming from a place of love and intimacy and standard family affection. That's it. Most readers of I/T have never been abused, don't want to abuse. (Actually, REAL incest "victims" tend to veer into BDSM practices.) It's just "normal" people.

Incest FANTASY is about adding a Taboo sexual dimension to a base emotion of love. That's it. That's the thrill. Thats all its about. By all means, call it a fairy tale or a romance if you wish.

What this girl describes and has written is the exact OPPOSITE: exploiting "love" to further a purely sexual motive.

If you don't get that, it's not your kink. Don't read it. Don't write it. Go write about sex slaves.

Full disclosure: I'm really not the biggest fan of a large portion of Lit's Incest readership. The Incest category on Lit is extremely and in some cases alarmingly dedicated, on the whole, to believing and portraying its kink as "happy and fluffy," generally unproblematic and not dark or troubling in any way at all. In some cases it reaches the point of outright aggressive delusion / denial, and certain partisans of the category are invested in (and very much up themselves about) having a sense of moral superiority, literally to the point of seeing the struggle for the acceptance of incest as analogous to that for gay rights.

The upshot of all that is that any story that acknowledges the darker side of the kink is likely to have a very, very rough ride in that category. I just straight-up do not write for the Incest category here for that reason (though I initially considered it). Many readers seem to go there to be reassured that incest truly is light and romantic and life-affirming. So if your story treats incest at all realistically or brings any element of the dark and troublesome to the proceedings, you can expect to be swamped with negativity. (Doubly so in that it is also perhaps Lit's single most popular category.)

If your story involves any admission that incest kink and NC/R kink are closely related, or that there is a much darker dimension to the proceedings, you're probably better off categorizing it in NC/R or maybe even Erotic Horror.

 

[Nezhul]

Carnal_Flower...
Why don't you let people write what they write? You didn't like a story? Well boo-hoo, it's your problem.

Your ass is clearly on fire, thus so much hate in the direction of the story that others enjoyed. Get it into your head that your opinion is largely irrelevant.

This site has a few rules, and thus you can't depict realistic human slavery. Its not up to you to change it.
Likewise, it's not your place to yap about what should or should not be in a story.

You hated it? Well move along. No one is interested in your bile here, and as though the first post was not enough, you went and made a second one, because you apparently saw that your viewpoint is at a minority.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

But I thought others didn't enjoy it, wasn't that the point? Incest Readers not only rated it low, but one said it traumatized her and would give her nightmares. Obviously the OP cared about the response and was troubled by it.

Then you have NC writers weighing in in their usual way to offer their hypocritical insights into a genre they do not understand.

It is a NC story. It is about abuse and taking advantage. She can post it anywhere she wants; if she doesn't want to traumatize her readers, it would be better served in categories that like to explore the eroticization of abuse. That is not Incest.

Carnal_Flower...
Why don't you let people write what they write? You didn't like a story? Well boo-hoo, it's your problem.

Your ass is clearly on fire, thus so much hate in the direction of the story that others enjoyed. Get it into your head that your opinion is largely irrelevant.

This site has a few rules, and thus you can't depict realistic human slavery. Its not up to you to change it.
Likewise, it's not your place to yap about what should or should not be in a story.

You hated it? Well move along. No one is interested in your bile here, and as though the first post was not enough, you went and made a second one, because you apparently saw that your viewpoint is at a minority.

 

[CyranoJ]

If erotica should serve the demand of sociological realism, then it should apply to all categories.

Readers should feel free to prefer what they prefer, I wasn't trying to attack anyone for their preferences. I just get frustrated with the amount of moralizing and kink-shaming that happens on Lit. It strikes me as unnecessary and I think more informed and less knee-jerk attitudes are possible.

The vast majority of readers loathe NC and Violence and sex slaves and all that crap because that has never been part of their experience.

Yeah, NC/R readers don't necessarily read that category because it's "part of their experience" and I'm pretty confident that you understand that. And yet:

Most readers of I/T have never been abused, don't want to abuse . . . It's just "normal" people.

Here you are telling me this as if you think it doesn't apply to people with other kinks, or to people who take a darker interpretation of a kink you happen to like. When I talk about "moralizing" that's the kind of fallacy I have in mind, and its being an irritant for me is what I was describing; I wasn't making any claims about people having been abused or wanting to be abusers*.

Now, I'm not going to pick a fight with you or tell you that your opinion doesn't matter, I respect you. I just think the narrowness of a certain readership's interpretation of the I/T category and the burning zeal with which they defend it can and does get off-putting.

(* Or at least I wasn't meaning to. Looking back, I can see how my remarks came across as more disdainful than was warranted and implied that I look down on people for preferring their I/T fiction light and romantic. That isn't so and I regret giving that impression, it was not the point of my post.)

 

[NicoleZ]

Incest Readers not only rated it low, but one said it traumatized her and would give her nightmares.

But Mistakenconfidence did warn readers in advance:

After many years, I have finally decided I needed some way to tell my story. I don't really care if too many people read it, I just needed to get this out somewhere. This story gets quite emotional, and those with an aversion to taboo topics should turn away now.

Even if the warning wasn't blatantly explicit, to ignore the warning and then complains about being traumatised and having nightmares - tough luck! Furthermore, to complain about being traumatised and having nightmares from simply reading when it's obvious that it's based on what the writer herself has had to endure, actually live through, is extremely insensitive to say the very least.

Then 3.64 isn't low from the point of view of readers as it's 2/3 of the way from (3) "Liked it - Keep on writing." to (4) "Really liked it - Good read!"

 

[Bramblethorn]

(Actually, REAL incest "victims" tend to veer into BDSM practices.)

A lot of folk including some psychological professionals like to claim that BDSM interests arise as a reaction to abuse (incest or otherwise) but I'm not aware of any scientific research to back that. The "BDSM = pathology" line is something that many of us find objectionable, so it'd be great if people didn't keep repeating it without supporting evidence.

For example, Richters, de Visser, Rissel, Grulich, and Smith found no significant association between BDSM interests and history of experiencing sexual coercion. They did find that men who participated in BDSM reported significantly lower levels of psychological stress than those who didn't.

All the research that I've seen suffers from issues like small sample sizes and difficulty in getting representative samples, so I can't say for certain that there's no association between BDSM and abuse. But certainly I'm not aware of anybody who's found meaningful evidence for such an association. Those claims seem to be based entirely on speculation and anecdote.

 

[Haulover]

Ignore Carnal Flower

"This story made me relive one of my own worst nightmares. Definetly not erotic but certainly powerful. Maybe this should be under non-consentual since the primary thrust of the story is less about the incestuous relationship and more about the domination and repeated rape of the girl. This story turned me off completely but I was unable to stop reading. I guarantee I will be having nigtmares tonight."

Your story touched someone deeply. That is the highest praise (or more accurately, recognition) for authors.

(I'll download it onto my phone, and read it later...)

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Neither do I.

My bad. I say that merely on the evidence of people I personally have known.


B][/B]

A lot of folk including some psychological professionals like to claim that BDSM interests arise as a reaction to abuse (incest or otherwise) but I'm not aware of any scientific research to back that. The "BDSM = pathology" line is something that many of us find objectionable, so it'd be great if people didn't keep repeating it without supporting evidence.

For example, Richters, de Visser, Rissel, Grulich, and Smith found no significant association between BDSM interests and history of experiencing sexual coercion. They did find that men who participated in BDSM reported significantly lower levels of psychological stress than those who didn't.

All the research that I've seen suffers from issues like small sample sizes and difficulty in getting representative samples, so I can't say for certain that there's no association between BDSM and abuse. But certainly I'm not aware of anybody who's found meaningful evidence for such an association. Those claims seem to be based entirely on speculation and anecdote.