Depicting of Underage Characters

[Pupski]

Let me start out by stating that I understand the reasons why underage (under 18 years of age) characters in written works cannot be depicted in sexual relationships. I understand it is against the law in the United States (and probably other countries as well). I am not looking to publish, create or even read stories with underage characters engaging in sex. With me personally it's just plain and simple decency, I get it.

My question is this. In some Stephen King novels I've read, one that comes to mind is Wizard and Glass, there are underage characters having sex. George R.R. Martin's Games of Thrones books are filled with under characters having sex. How is this allowed? Is it gauged on a level of graphic-ness such as just implying the underage characters are having sex vs. depicted all the details?

 

[sr71plt]

It's not against the law. I hope that answers your question and we won't be having our semiweekly "why doesn't Lit. allow underage stories?" again with this thread. We don't have it at Lit. because this is a privately owned Web site and the owners don't want to have it here. No need for further discussion here.

 

[Pupski]

Well OK, I'm sorry I did not know.

Bad assumption on my part.

Kudos to this site for not allowing that.

I guess I'm not the first person to ask this huh?

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Underage is common everywhere since Muhammad's days, but not here.

 

[sr71plt]

Underage is common everywhere since Muhammad's days, but not here.

Oh, you thought it wasn't going on before Muhammad? How quaint.

 

[Handley_Page]

It's not against the law.
I hope that answers your question and we won't be having our semiweekly "why doesn't Lit. allow underage stories?" again with this thread. We don't have it at Lit. because this is a privately owned Web site and the owners don't want to have it here. No need for further discussion here.

I think it's a little more subtle than that.
You see, Pupski, there are those who would protest in such a manner as to cause commercial damage to an organisation. Such damage may be caused by collective withdrawal of accounts from an organisation's Bank (as happened in the UK a year or two ago), or withdrawing credit or other things ("we only take cash from you now") or other financial measures. All in all, these things can make it difficult for any organisation to function.
Lit is a commercial organisation. Anything 'rocking the boat' would probably cause Lit to be in trouble.
So, by & large, it is much better to make a ruling which works across the board; in this case, it's the Age Limit for sex. Since it IS privately owned and run, we just go along with the Rules.
.

 

[NoJo]

I can get round it by informing readers that I use octal numbers, so when I say they're 20, they're actually only 16.

 

[sr71plt]

I think it's a little more subtle than that.
You see, Pupski, there are those who would protest in such a manner as to cause commercial damage to an organisation. Such damage may be caused by collective withdrawal of accounts from an organisation's Bank (as happened in the UK a year or two ago), or withdrawing credit or other things ("we only take cash from you now") or other financial measures. All in all, these things can make it difficult for any organisation to function.
Lit is a commercial organisation. Anything 'rocking the boat' would probably cause Lit to be in trouble.
So, by & large, it is much better to make a ruling which works across the board; in this case, it's the Age Limit for sex. Since it IS privately owned and run, we just go along with the Rules.
.

Well, no, that's just irrelevant to her question. Go back and read what her question was. The answer to the actual question is simple. It's not against the law to write about underage sex. I answered the question and then obviated the next usual question, which also doesn't require a more complex answer than the one I gave.

 

[CoffeeWithMonkeys]

I've written some, but obviously won't try to submit them here.

One of my favorites I've written is about a 15 year old and her older brother's friend. And it really is a sweet love story.

Another one I wrote about a 14 year old getting kidnapped but she falls in love with her kidnapper.

Both, in the end. are love stories, pure romantic drivel I tend to write, but with teens.

 

[StrangeLife]

I have this great story idea involving a protagonist torturing and raping an underage hamster while eating a peanut butter sandwich.

But I scrapped it for now since depicting peanut butter sandwiches in sexual situations are against the rules of Lit...

 

[Haulover]

I am busy completing an incest series based on a true story in which the daughter has sex (is molested?) by her father from age 12, right through to college-age.

For Lit, I had to change that age to 18 - which makes it somewhat unrealistic.

To bring it closer to reality I had a character comment that they'd heard that the sex (abuse?) had actually started at a very young age.

 

[JKendallDane]

I have this great story idea involving a protagonist torturing and raping an underage hamster while eating a peanut butter sandwich.

But I scrapped it for now since depicting peanut butter sandwiches in sexual situations are against the rules of Lit...

I dunno. Laurel had no problem with me using Reese's Peanut Butter Cups in intimate sexual situations. Maybe it's the chocolate that made it okay?

.

 

[lovecraft68]

 

[49greg]

I dunno. Laurel had no problem with me using Reese's Peanut Butter Cups in intimate sexual situations. Maybe it's the chocolate that made it okay?

.

Chocolate makes everything OK. Chocolate, mmmmmmmmmmmmm

I'll be back in a minute, or maybe longer.

 

[StrangeLife]

I dunno. Laurel had no problem with me using Reese's Peanut Butter Cups in intimate sexual situations. Maybe it's the chocolate that made it okay?

.

I think you're ok as long you avoid bread. Carbs are as bad as constitutional rape - especially if you're dieting....

 

[ElectricBlue]

I am busy completing an incest series based on a true story in which the daughter has sex (is molested?) by her father from age 12, right through to college-age.

For Lit, I had to change that age to 18 - which makes it somewhat unrealistic.

To bring it closer to reality I had a character comment that they'd heard that the sex (abuse?) had actually started at a very young age.

Why are you even questioning ("...molested? .... abuse? ") what paedophile incest rape is?

It's a crime. What the fuck is it with people who don't understand that? And you think it is suitable for an "incest series"? What the fuck?

 

[lovecraft68]

Why are you even questioning ("...molested? .... abuse? ") what paedophile incest rape is?

It's a crime. What the fuck is it with people who don't understand that? And you think it is suitable for an "incest series"? What the fuck?

Yeah, and I think the readers are going to really unload on it. Every incest fan is well aware of what it can be in real life and its not 18+ and consensual. Real life abuse really kills the make believe and they'll react with bombs and nastiness.

This is no place for reality dammit, at least not for incest or non consent.

 

[Haulover]

Why are you even questioning ("...molested? .... abuse? ") what paedophile incest rape is?

It's a crime. What the fuck is it with people who don't understand that? And you think it is suitable for an "incest series"? What the fuck?

I was about to climb into you with a "don't give me shit" type remark. But instead, let me explain:

The REALITY was very complicated. The simplest way I can describe it is:
This situation did occur. Yes, it was molestation, and it was abuse. I only put those question marks there because I wasn't sure what other words to use in the context of this discussion.

My point was that my original description, i.e. a grown woman remembering her experiences as a 12-year-old seeing her twin sister being molested, was graphic and horrifying and clearly depicted the severity of the act.

But for LIT, I had to tweak the narrative, and turn it into something else, in which the characters were 18...

This is a deeply personal story and I am the last person to condone underage molestation - incestuous or otherwise.

 

[CyranoJ]

In some Stephen King novels I've read, one that comes to mind is Wizard and Glass, there are underage characters having sex. George R.R. Martin's Games of Thrones books are filled with under characters having sex. How is this allowed?

It's mainstream fiction, not porn. It's not much more complicated than that.

Analyze a novel from A Song of Ice and Fire. How many actual words are spent on underage characters having sex, instead of just implying it or acknowledging it in passing? That's the difference.

 

[KimGordon67]

It's mainstream fiction, not porn. It's not much more complicated than that.

Analyze a novel from A Song of Ice and Fire. How many actual words are spent on underage characters having sex, instead of just implying it or acknowledging it in passing? That's the difference.

That's just silly - then you have to have some arbitrary cut-off point at which a certain proportion of words spent discussing underage sex is 'illegal'.
It is, as was quite rightly pointed out above, that talking about/writing about underage sex isn't illegal. It's the doing of it that's illegal - hence it's not OK to have it depicted in visual porn. (Although I think even implying it, if everyone is technically of age, in visual porn would probably still be a bit iffy for the censorship board here ... but obviously that's a slightly grey area, because it happens in non-porn films/TV.)

We do have a younger age of consent here ... the variability on that score always amuses me. So it's fine to discuss 16/17 year olds going at it like rabbits in any format you care to, including the actual world.

 

[sr71plt]

It's mainstream fiction, not porn. It's not much more complicated than that.

Analyze a novel from A Song of Ice and Fire. How many actual words are spent on underage characters having sex, instead of just implying it or acknowledging it in passing? That's the difference.

Well, no, not in answer to the OP question. It's simply not illegal to write about underage sex. You don't have to analyze content. It's purely a legal issue.

 

[KimGordon67]

It's mainstream fiction, not porn. It's not much more complicated than that.

Analyze a novel from A Song of Ice and Fire. How many actual words are spent on underage characters having sex, instead of just implying it or acknowledging it in passing? That's the difference.

Also, you're assuming there's some clear dividing line between 'mainstream fiction' and 'porn' ... I hate to imagine how much ink has be spilt over THAT particular debate.

 

[Bramblethorn]

It's mainstream fiction, not porn. It's not much more complicated than that.

Analyze a novel from A Song of Ice and Fire. How many actual words are spent on underage characters having sex, instead of just implying it or acknowledging it in passing? That's the difference.

That's relevant to "will a publisher take this?" but not to whether it's legal.

Exhibit A: Piers Anthony's "Firefly" https://litreactor.com/columns/themes-of-pedophilia-in-the-works-of-piers-anthony

 

[Hypoxia]

This again.

On LIT you can report that underage sex happened ("She was knocked up at 15") but you can't depict it either directly or indirectly. You can find written underage sex, and bestiality, and snuff, all over the Net -- but not at LIT. The rules have made LIT a very successful site. Enough already!

[If it won't pass muster in a story, it's not allowed on the forum either. Even to illustrate the point - AH Mod]

 

[ElectricBlue]

My point was that my original description, i.e. a grown woman remembering her experiences as a 12-year-old seeing her twin sister being molested, was graphic and horrifying and clearly depicted the severity of the act.

But for LIT, I had to tweak the narrative, and turn it into something else, in which the characters were 18...

This is a deeply personal story and I am the last person to condone underage molestation - incestuous or otherwise.

I guess you and I live on different planets then. How any terrible real life experience, as you describe it, then becomes grist for an erotica mill is so far beyond my values, that all I can say is WTF. But your deeper explanation is appreciated. My conclusion is, it's a strange world.