Online dating...what am I not doing right?

[atariblue]

Hi everyone! Maybe I can get some insight. For about 4-5 years on and off I've been trying online dating. I've set up profiles on okcupid and plenty of fish, and the results have been abysmal. Enough so that I don't even want to attempt to try paid sites.

I've tried changing up my style and approach for my profile and messages. I've talked about my likes/dislikes, my taste in movies and music, my hobbies, my personality. I've gone from the goofy and aloof to more serious with the messages . I've used the always suggested method of mentioning something about her profile in the first message. I'm never arrogant or cocky. And yet 99.9% of the time I garner no results.

I have even tried the ever so scary dating section of Craigslist. Most of the time it's sexbots and sexcam girls, but a on few very rare occasions I do get a live genuine woman. But every time I send a pic I don't hear back from them. Which brings me to my next point. Maybe it's me....my looks....my face? I've never considered myself a supermodel, but on the other hand I never thought I was ugly or hideous. I've always thought of myself as an average guy. Maybe a 6 or a 7....probably pushing my luck if I say an 8.

Now I understand online dating is very tough for guys and that a large part of it is based on looks, but I figured the law of averages added with amount of messages I've sent I should have had some success even if it was slim.

So maybe someone can clue me in, give me some pointers, some encouraging words, or just tell me how much of a horrid troll I am and have no business being on any dating site. I'm more than happy to hear from you.

Pics are available if you want to see how average and or ugly I am, if you're interested.

Thank you.

 

[suckonsimon]

It's not for me to ask for pics, but I can tell you this much: you write handsomely and your wit and perception and self-understanding shows in just this couple of paragraphs. Could it be that some of these women backed off because they fear they won't measure up for such an articulate and together person as you seem to be?

 

[atariblue]

Thank you

Thank you, suckonsimon for your honest and heartfelt feedback. I have read your response a few times and each it has put a much needed smile on my face. It instills a bit of hope and optimism in my heart.

I have never taken into consideration that the women may be backing off because of how well I write. If this is true it's a shame to reject a guy who writes so articulate. If they want a guy who writes like an arrogant jackass, well I guess you can't deny what they want....sigh...

I truly want to thank you for responding with such an uplifting message. It made my night and makes me think maybe I can overcome these minor setbacks to find that special someone.

 

[HisArpy]

You're too sensitive. Get some assertiveness into your game. Drop the geeky bits like the line in your signature from your profile.

Women on free dating sites aren't there because they're easy to get along with. They aren't there because they have hot hookups lining up at their door. Nor are they there because they want mild mannered men who talk of love and kids and happily-ever-afters over the nightly game of checkers.

They're there because they can't get dates either. One wonders why...

That stability thing they all put into their profile? They TALK like that's what they want, but it ain't so. In reality they want wicked guys with money to spend. If you want dates from dating sites, you need to be that guy. Slightly bad boy, strong, and a bit scary. Not too scary because that makes you creepy. Just a bit to add to the mystery and attraction. You need to BE tall, dark and handsome even if you aren't physically. It's an attitude more than physical appearance.

Amazingly enough, if you can pull off the TDH thing, you won't need a dating site.

 

[Misshotndeep]

Hi everyone! Maybe I can get some insight. For about 4-5 years on and off I've been trying online dating. I've set up profiles on okcupid and plenty of fish, and the results have been abysmal. Enough so that I don't even want to attempt to try paid sites.

I've tried changing up my style and approach for my profile and messages. I've talked about my likes/dislikes, my taste in movies and music, my hobbies, my personality. I've gone from the goofy and aloof to more serious with the messages . I've used the always suggested method of mentioning something about her profile in the first message. I'm never arrogant or cocky. And yet 99.9% of the time I garner no results.

I have even tried the ever so scary dating section of Craigslist. Most of the time it's sexbots and sexcam girls, but a on few very rare occasions I do get a live genuine woman. But every time I send a pic I don't hear back from them. Which brings me to my next point. Maybe it's me....my looks....my face? I've never considered myself a supermodel, but on the other hand I never thought I was ugly or hideous. I've always thought of myself as an average guy. Maybe a 6 or a 7....probably pushing my luck if I say an 8.

Now I understand online dating is very tough for guys and that a large part of it is based on looks, but I figured the law of averages added with amount of messages I've sent I should have had some success even if it was slim.

So maybe someone can clue me in, give me some pointers, some encouraging words, or just tell me how much of a horrid troll I am and have no business being on any dating site. I'm more than happy to hear from you.

Pics are available if you want to see how average and or ugly I am, if you're interested.

Thank you.

I agree with Simon. On the other hand you sound to good to be true. That makes a lot of us ladies wary. I suggest you try some real life interactions and not dating sites. I think once a lady gets to meet you she will be less intimidated. You sound genuinely interested in finding a life mate. I hope you do. Best of luck in your search.

P.S. Stop talking so much about you and let her talk about her. Actually listen and don't just think about the next thing you are going to say. If you already do this than congrats. If not, then it is a goal for you hit. Again best of luck.

 

[atariblue]

His....I'm sorry but that is scary thinking. How can you deny who you really are? This is my personality, and it's been that way for at least 20 or so years of my life. Besides if I have to change just to impress a stranger then it isn't worth it. Thanks for the input.

Thanks Misshot, I'll start trying more social groups and settings. Hopefully I can show women I'm not too good to be true.

 

[hashtag45]

hi atari

You might not remember me because I changed my username, but I posted with you a bit in the Story Ideas forum, and I just Loved your personality and sense of humour. I suspect that you're the real deal.

In saying that, ours was more of the older sister - much younger brother type of relationship, so to speak.
I don't know if that was just related to the fact that I'm much older than you are, or if that's how you relate to people in general.

Based on that however, I had the impression that you might atract the type of girl who's more into an equal relationship so to speak, as opposed to girls who like very dominant men.
And like as previous poster said, it might be that different types of girls gravitate towards different types of dating sites, and you chose the wrong environment.

If I were you, I wouldn't try to change my lifelong behaviors or my personality, since that would be too contrived. And you have a charming personality already, and a lot of girls like 'light hearted and playful'
I would rather look for the right environment that suits me + I would subscribe to a program that explains the dynamics of attraction and dating.
Something akin to "Get the guy" with Matthew Hussey.

 

[atariblue]

Hi hashtag!

Good to hear from you. Hope you're doing well.

I appreciate your response. In fact have always enjoyed your responses, they were humorous and genuine. I did feel our so to speak relationship was an older sister/younger brother one. It was a nice one though.

As for the type of woman I'm looking for, you hit the nail on the head. I hope to find someone who looks for an equal in a partner. I'm just not the dominant type.

I'm going to try different environments to find that special someone. A change in my method may give me better results.

It was a pleasure to read your message.

 

[box13]

The ratio of men to women is probably very unbalanced, and to boot you have to compete with assholes...and assholes simply have better DNA for competing for the curiosity of the opposite sex. So they can breed more assholes, I imagine. That's how we have so many, now.

I suspect women generally see common patterns among men trying to attract their interest, so the pattern, or the formula, may be what's turning them off or signalling them that you're not interesting. People do tend to look at themselves in the mirror with regard to a potential mate and wonder "does this person make my ass look big?" kind of thing.

Not really trying to be rude here, but if you want love then find an woman who feels that she's "too ugly for you" and tell her you'll pay for her stuff. Love isn't magic pixie dust that's shot with arrows from invisible cherubs that sit around in trees all day, waiting for just the right person. Probably some predictable chemistry and otherwise just a lot of hard work.

 

[hashtag45]

I suggest you try some real life interactions and not dating sites. I think once a lady gets to meet you she will be less intimidated.

I was thinking about what Misshotndeep said, and then I remembered this lady who complained the other day about having similar problems. Then I reflected on my own experiences.

I'm not exactly a social butterfly, so I generally dated people that I met mostly at work or in relation to my studies. There was a certain chemistry between us (as in physical attraction, personality-wise) that would have got lost if transcribed into a sterile photo or dating profile.

And come to think of it, I doubt that either of us would have selected each other if we went through an online dating profile. Because none of us checked all the boxes.

I never tried online or blind dates, but I suspect that some of the difficulties aren't related to the fact that members are more vain or narcissistic. I suspect that this type of dating automatically puts people in a "let me check all the boxes' frame of mind, so one ends up being too picky instead of choosy. So no wonder that only a few who know how to play the game as in making sure that they check all boxes, end up being successful.

So yeah, I was wondering whether real life interactions might be a another good option too. Like she said.

 

[tegli4]

Some random thoughts...

Hello Atariblue,

I can say I am in a similar situation like you in many regards. I also happen to work in the IT industry and I think I have some thoughts and ideas that might add to this discussion.
First of all, I ended up trying to find someone online due to the fact I just don’t enjoy the majority of the casual social interaction between my peers. Talking about the same mundane things over and over is extremely unappealing to me. I have few friends with whom we discuss ideas and events in depth, but that just doesn’t happen at a party or clubs where most people “supposedly” find mates. As you can guess, I am in a bit of a pickle when it comes to meeting new people.

Since you brought up OKCupid, I will start with it. My observation (I have the app for around a year now) is that the system is rigged against you. There are no ads on OKCupid and so the owner makes profit by you spending money on “services”. Simple example, you can’t sort matches for body type unless you pay. So my results are 90% overweight ladies. This doesn’t reflect the population (I have in mind that everyone on dating apps/sites has some problem to find someone).

Another problem is exposure. You have to pay to be “shown” to more potential matches. As you said, I am also pretty average, but no one even views my profile.

Different people use those apps differently as well. As I mentioned OKCupid, imagine this situation. You see someone with high % match. You open their profile and check the answers to the questions you both have answered. You find the category that you think is most important for you and start looking for the differences. Then you ask yourself, can I work with this? Most often the answer is No, because you have no connection to this person, it is just a profile.

Another thing is that the whole process of matching with someone just doesn’t work well imho. You either just pick a face you like or you get matched on the basis of the answers of between 10 and 1000 questions. Then you open the profile and you are faced with this person’s self-delusions called “his profile”. Based on that limited information you try to decide if he is worth your limited time or not. You will dismiss MUCH more people compared to the ones you try to chat up. I am not saying you should lower your “standards”, but people tend to overestimate themselves more often and the result is that everyone expects to find the perfect match on those apps.

The last thing I will mention is a hypothesis I just came up with. Women are the ones that select mates, not the males, this is a fact (I simplified a lot here, but bear with me). Scientific studies had proven that women are attracted to different men depend on where in their menstrual cycle they are, their age and whether or not they take contraceptive pills. Also they are most horny when they are ovulating. When do you think a woman is most likely to look for matches? I could have simplified a lot and just said that depending on her emotional state, she might swipe left (no) or right (yes) and if she had to make the same choice tomorrow, the result might be different. I know for sure that my emotional state can create streaks of left, left, left or right, right, right and the “hotness” of the pics becomes almost irrelevant. It also takes less then 10s to decide yes or no, there isn’t really enough time to really consider the person behind the profile.

I really wished this to sound positive, but my experience with online dating has been negative so far. That is just me though, I know two couples who met online so, perhaps this is the future or at the very least, it works for some people.

 

[malefica]

I met my Master through OK Cupid, my LDR partner via a hobby, and I've got a few potential dates via Fetlife pending. I'm not a massive fan of online dating however. But, the positive is that it increases the number of potential partners pretty well compared to say, just searching in a hobby-related pool or via mutual friends.

I tend to use profiles as a stepping stone, not the deciding point. Some profiles can be the best ever but the person has no click in messaging or no chemistry, and a sparse profile can result in an amazing encounter.

I much prefer real-life interactions to determine partner suitability and chemistry, than I do solely or long-term online-only interactions.

 

[HisArpy]

His....I'm sorry but that is scary thinking. How can you deny who you really are? This is my personality, and it's been that way for at least 20 or so years of my life. Besides if I have to change just to impress a stranger then it isn't worth it. Thanks for the input.

Thanks Misshot, I'll start trying more social groups and settings. Hopefully I can show women I'm not too good to be true.

I'm not saying to change your personality. What I'm saying is that if you want to meet someone who is interesting and exciting, you can't advertise that you're an uninteresting nerd.

For online dating it's all about advertising yourself. Don't change who you are, just change the way you talk about yourself. Change "I love chess" to "I love games of strategy and high level challenges." One is boring. The other makes you wonder what games and how high while accepting that you routinely take on challenges and win.

Be confident but don't sound indifferent. Easy trap to fall into.

 

[joelafayette]

.....

 

[atariblue]

You left off what is probably the most important detail: how tall are you?

Women are brutally superficial when it comes to height. There are exceptions of course, and I might get flamed for pointing this out. But if we're being honest, it's an absolute fact.

So, how tall are you?

5'9".... I've read studies that indicate taller men usually over 6 foot are more successful in life and love. It is what it is.

 

[HisArpy]

5'9".... I've read studies that indicate taller men usually over 6 foot are more successful in life and love. It is what it is.

Don't believe everything you read about height and success. Most of it is bullshit puked up by whiners who only wish they had more than they do rather than working hard(er) for it. So they blame it on the other guy and make up reasons why they're not successful.

True success comes from studying what went wrong and changing the formula until you get it right.

 

[atariblue]

Don't believe everything you read about height and success. Most of it is bullshit puked up by whiners who only wish they had more than they do rather than working hard(er) for it. So they blame it on the other guy and make up reasons why they're not successful.

True success comes from studying what went wrong and changing the formula until you get it right.

Let it be known I don't blame my height for my short comings

 

[Misshotndeep]

Let it be known I don't blame my height for my short comings

http://images.hellogiggles.com/uploads/2014/11/10/CAT-PUN.jpg?123

 

[LadyVer]

Let it be known I don't blame my height for my short comings

Listen, no one is perfect. Do what you're comfortable with, and screw the alpha male, confident marketing bullshit. Good luck!

 

[HayleyLuvsSex]

Don't know for sure, but I heard men VASTLY outnumber women on dating sites, so that's probably a big part of it. Frankly, I think it's much easier to just find people in real life.

Also, at 5'9 it's probably not your height.

And do you have good pictures of yourself on your profile? I will say a lot of men don't know how to take a good selfie, and otherwise decent looking dudes can look pretty ugly. Make sure you have good pics up!

 

[hashtag45]

Strange.
On paper, I'm just like everybody else and I would tick the box for tall guys. But not many of those that I was attracted to or ended up with, were too tall.

Online dating must be tough for people because -as I suspect- one ends up having unrealistic standards. On the other hand, it offers more options to those who either live in more remote areas, or 'cultures' that don't fit their personalities.

 

[HisArpy]

Finding a life partner is harder than being a comedian with a tough crowd. For guys it's the biggest sale they'll ever have. They have to sell themselves to someone who really isn't that interested.

Think about it; most of us start with a product (ourselves) and have to sell it to someone who gets bombarded every day, all day, from every direction, with similar products.

You won't get the sale unless you can distinguish why the daily grocery getter is better than the fully loaded red hot eye magnet. Telling your target audience that this plain boring one costs the same in maintenance, overhead, and is similar in longevity to the eye candy over there won't get you the sale. Sorry, it just won't.

You might never equal the looks and excitement of the eye candy, but you CAN increase your sales potential by getting rid of the "boring and average" parts of your sales pitch.

It IS the hardest sale of any guy's life because the customer isn't interested yet the reward potential is enormous. If you want the sale, you gotta market yourself for it. And, think about this; atariblue is here because he's looking for a marketing strategy to increase his chances. He might not be fully aware that is what he's asking for, but in a nutshell, it is.

Be yourself, but also be the BEST yourself you can be. Show off your potential. There's someone for everyone out there, you just have to capture their attention. You won't get there with lies, but you also won't get there by standing in the back of the crowd whispering "I'm boring" either.

 

[desiree_d]

Female point of view

Atari, I read this thread with particular interest because I've tried online dating sites on and off for several years....and if I understand your question correctly, have had the same issues. My experience has been no matter the content of the profile, or even the un/attractiveness of pics, when I initiate or respond to a message, that's the last time I hear from the particular man. I've tried humor, mentioning common interests, etc. I've only met one person, thru this site and not even looking, that I have actually continued to speak to for some time. So I've given up, I have absolutely no idea what I'll do next (yes I have met so very nice men through school functions and when out pursing hobbies, yet nothing, at this point I do think it's me)

And as for the tall, dark handsome....unfortunately married one, 15 years during a medical crisis he bailed cuz of my appearance....so don't think I'd trust the bad boy, TDH, or golden boy right away. I'm not sure it's the bad boy persona rather than a spontaneous and the ability to find humor in life and then .... but I certainly am no expert on any online dating or finding the right man, been married and divorced twice. I'd like to think it's because I'm willing to admit my mistakes, but this last one cost 20 years do to a change in appearance due to a life threatening illness and all I own. OK done with the pity potty, flushed, didn't want to think you were alone in the confusion of that cyber dating world.

 

[KimGordon67]

Anyone worth their salt won't care about the money or how tall you are. I'm ... well, it's slightly complicated, but I have a boyfriend I met through a dating site, pretty much accidentally as I wasn't even looking for someone at the time (but, if I was single, it's a site I'd definitely be using to look for dates). I never even noticed his height on his profile, but when he told me he was short, it didn't matter a damn. I actually didn't even know what he looks like the first time we met in person. He's also stoney broke - again, irrelevant.

But everyone likes confidence. Men like me because I'm confident. I like men who are confident (but definitely NOT arrogant!). I have a few other screeners too, but only to ensure I'm finding people who I know I'm going to be able to have a conversation with ... but confidence is really a deal-breaker. And the flip side of that - not needy. Don't barrel in there talking about how many kids you want, or that you're looking for your life partner in the first message. Suggest a game of 20 questions instead - it means you find out some stuff about them, and seriously, the questions people ask are often more revealing than the answers they give to your questions. (Actually, the boyfriend said that not long after we first started talking.)

This also means you can close a message with a question. I feel terribly rude if I don't answer a direct question, so I'll almost always message someone back if they ask one. Try something that makes them think a bit too - e.g. 'What's your favourite place in the whole world?' is always a winner. (Actually, 'What were you thinking about the last time you made yourself cum?' is my best one, but best reserved for a bit later in a conversation.)

 

[hashtag45]

^^^ This. She nailed it.
Confidence (not to be confused with arrogance) is very attractive. Other qualities (kindness, sense of humour and so on) come in second place unfortunately.