Realism or Fantasy or... Fantastic Realism

[mwf2ffan]

We all come to this site to read erotica and some of us discuss it to. Some want to eventually write as well. In some of the stories we see here, the lack of real world experience in describing sex is very noticable, and overdone cliches can kill suspension of disbelief. Sometimes characters are not developed enough in that you won't know why they suddenly want to do such an unusual or taboo thing. At the same time, we are here for fantasy and not realism, otherwise we would be doing the things we write and read in real life. People of lit, what are your thoughts?

Also, what are some of your favorite stories in which you think the characters and situation have been done really well? I am interested in your opinions.

As a person thinking about writing himself, but wants to make everything plausible, I am hung up on how to bring stories with my fetish to life. How can a woman be interested realistically in wanting to swap bodies, possess another, or transform into another woman? A guy would like the idea of his woman doing so, but a woman not so much. Thoughts on that too?

 

[Hypoxia]

I found LIT about 3 years ago, I read stuff; thought, "I can do better!" and started writing fiction for the first time in my life. (My prior writings were songs and tech stuff.) I had lots of real-world experience and old journals to weave into stories. Yes, I tried (and still try) "to make everything plausible". I can only suggest that you write, write, write, till it's a natural activity.

 

[liteditor]

I think it is helpful to consider two aspects of writing. The first is framing your story properly, and the second has to do with whether you edit as you write.

You have control of your writing based on how you frame the reality in which the story takes place. For example, in the kind of tale you sketched out, if a woman (lets call her Cate) had a terrible accident and became disfigured to the point where she will be shunned by society and alone for the rest of her life, she might wish to exchange bodies with another woman.

Or, Cate may long to leave her past behind her, and begin anew. What if she could exchange bodies with someone else?

My last example is of Cate loving someone (let's call him Daniel) who is a widower, such that she would take the body (perhaps likeness is a better term) of his lost wife to give Daniel one more day to say all of the things he wanted to but never did.

There are so many posabilities, which leads me to my second point. Give yourself permission to write the story or portion of the story first, and edit later! You will find that keeping your internal editor at bay for a while allows you to keep from hindering your writing and creativity. Instead of finding your internal dialogue filled with, 'No that's not right', as you are trying to get the words on paper, move yourself beyond that bottleneck and let your imaginings flow. The worst that could happen is you end up with something tangable from which to learn, if not enjoyable. Good luck!

 

[Hypoxia]

An author creates worlds with words. Our stories may live in one world, or many, but we control everything happening there. Some of my story worlds are faithful renderings of reality. Some are slight variants -- I set Bride of Kong in a universe where KING KONG and JURASSIC PARK were documentaries. Some have little if any connection to any kind of reality, only internal consistency.

Characters are capricious. Many are closely based on folks I've known. Sometimes I merge several real people into one player, or split one person into several characters, dissecting their personality. Their motivations are always a "what-if?" puzzle for me. They're my lab rats. I can provoke all sorts of behaviors. The real people would likely never go in for incest, group, same-sex, submission, any of the enthusiasms I write them into. But I can play "what-if?" and have all sorts of fun with them. They behave thusly because I told them too. I am their god.

I take a few approaches to writing. Often I visualize an ending scene, then build the story to reach that point. Or to surprise myself, I define a setting and some players and a few plot points, then set the characters loose and let them be themselves; I need merely transcribe their actions and words. Either could drive your "transformed woman". Start with the ending and tell how she got there. Or start with her motivation and see where it takes her.

 

[NaokoSmith]

'Realism' is not necessarily the same as real life. Characters, settings, story-lines have to be convincing rather than realistic.

I have a thread - which I have actually come in here tonight to look up and read back over, in which I was summarising and commenting on Auerbach's Mimesis: The Representation of Reality in Western Literature. I started reading Mimesis again the other day and I wanted to see what I'd said before, and continue my notes.

At its most basic, perhaps what Auerbach shows is that representing reality has been done in many different ways, some of them curiously unrealistic.

 

[sr71plt]

I see no reason to restrict myself to one or the other or from combining them. It's not an issue that bothers me.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

The late Fritz Perls, MD, emphasized there's only you and me and all the bull shit imagination between us.

Here's the secret of great sex, make it feel like heaven or hell. She'll replace you if it isn't one or the other.

 

[Hypoxia]

'Realism' is not necessarily the same as real life. Characters, settings, story-lines have to be convincing rather than realistic. <snip>... representing reality has been done in many different ways, some of them curiously unrealistic.

'Realism' of course means conforming to some notion of reality. But I define 'reality' as "whatever bites your ass". If it affects you, it's real, even if it's totally bogus, like many spiritual beliefs. Thus 'realism' means "matching an agreed-upon fantasy". My objectivity ain't always the same as theirs, not even metaphorically. Nutters have their own realities.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

OP - read my stuff. I do realistic characters in settings that are fantastic or unusual in one way or another.

Nothing kills a story for me faster than "But she wouldn't do that. No one would do that. She doesn't even know this guy." So I make sure my characters are reluctant, confused, trusting but cautious, or whatever it takes to be believable for the circumstances. If they suddenly give in to something new, there's obvious foreshadowing before that, pointing out that they're more tempted than they've wanted to admit, etc.

You might like Becoming Marie (caveat, it starts with a kidnapping, so it's noncon despite being in sci/fi).

 

[SamScribble]

For most of my 50-plus years as a professional writer, I have been writing non-fiction. Believe me: there's as much 'fiction' in good non-fiction as there is 'fact' in good fiction. If you don't take at least one or two readers with you, it's a lonely journey.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

You can lie and steal and murder but you cant leap from your roof in safety.

 

[sr71plt]

Whatever that means.

 

[ishtat]

I have read a fair bit by a writer called Contrasting here. His stories are utterly unrealistic but he has a knack of writing convincing and flawed characters. I enjoy what he does though he gets away with murder breaking all sorts of writing rules.

Despite myriad faults this writer is a fine story teller and one whose love of writing and of his characters shines through.

 

[NM_Candlewood]

I'm a woman and I can think of reasons why I might hypothetically swap bodies with another woman. : D The catch, I guess, is I would also want to swap lives. Not much point in being in another woman's body if I'm just going to stay in my own home.

A woman with a higher or lower income level, a woman in another country or even another time period, that sort of thing, could be really intriguing (as long as I got to switch back).

 

[Hypoxia]

I'm a woman and I can think of reasons why I might hypothetically swap bodies with another woman. : D The catch, I guess, is I would also want to swap lives. Not much point in being in another woman's body if I'm just going to stay in my own home.

A woman with a higher or lower income level, a woman in another country or even another time period, that sort of thing, could be really intriguing (as long as I got to switch back).

I recall an ancient SF story of a future world with a jaded human population. One mode of entertainment is to be transformed into another species. Many choose never to return to humanity. Some become stereotypical predators -- wolves or pumas or eagles or sharks -- complete with the animal's consciousness. Would you happily live as a bird-brained hawk?

But let's stay with humanity. I temporarily swap body and consciousness with another human of different locale, time, society, status, even gender. Am I prepared to survive in that mileau? If I awoke to find my SELF in the body of Madonna or Jesse Ventura or Ivanka Trump or RuPaul, I'd freak -- as would they when they awaken in my trailer.

 

[NM_Candlewood]

I recall an ancient SF story of a future world with a jaded human population. One mode of entertainment is to be transformed into another species. Many choose never to return to humanity. Some become stereotypical predators -- wolves or pumas or eagles or sharks -- complete with the animal's consciousness. Would you happily live as a bird-brained hawk?

But let's stay with humanity. I temporarily swap body and consciousness with another human of different locale, time, society, status, even gender. Am I prepared to survive in that mileau? If I awoke to find my SELF in the body of Madonna or Jesse Ventura or Ivanka Trump or RuPaul, I'd freak -- as would they when they awaken in my trailer.

Hypothetically it could be fascinating to swap bodies with an animal as well. Not consciousnesses, though. It's sufficiently weird to have a flu serious enough to make me feel not myself, with diminished mind power. The soul stays put, heh.

And wow, to suddenly be in someone else's identity and life, I know, it boggles the mind a bit. But the OP wondered how a woman might realistically be okay with an exchange of bodies, and that's how I would be okay with it. Or at least would be okay with giving it a whirl. Probably wouldn't want to be RuPaul, though, since they can wear a dress with way more glam than I ever could in my regular body. I'd go back to being me and proceed to feel like an inelegant shrub forever. (´;ω;｀)

 

[Hypoxia]

Hypothetically it could be fascinating to swap bodies with an animal as well. Not consciousnesses, though. It's sufficiently weird to have a flu serious enough to make me feel not myself, with diminished mind power. The soul stays put, heh.

The issue here is brain capacity. It's hard to fit a human consciousness into an eagle's skull. Morphing into a dolphin, cetacean, giant cephalopod, or other big-brained beast wold be less restrictive. But if we're SWAPPING consciousness, the eagle's mind in a human brain would have a lot space to rattle around in, and the porpoise or giant squid would be dumbed-down, poor babies.

And wow, to suddenly be in someone else's identity and life, I know, it boggles the mind a bit. But the OP wondered how a woman might realistically be okay with an exchange of bodies, and that's how I would be okay with it. Or at least would be okay with giving it a whirl.

Yeah, just be careful who you swap with. Consider your social scenes, your family and friends. How will they react when you aren't 'you' any more?

So what is the goal? To become another person, at least temporarily, and live as they live... or not. I have an easy way to transform myself: travel. Go somewhere you're not known and you can be whomever and whatever you want. Maybe get new ID for a real presto-change-o. Yes, you can be Kim for a day.

 

[sr71plt]

Hypothetically it could be fascinating to swap bodies with an animal as well. Not consciousnesses, though. It's sufficiently weird to have a flu serious enough to make me feel not myself, with diminished mind power. The soul stays put, heh.

Isn't that the Jekyll and Hyde and Werewolf premise?

 

[oggbashan]

Some of my stories have been described as weird. Some comments are complimentary but ask if I have been treated for delusions.

But when anon complains that one of my stories about a Genie isn't "realistic" or that my story about Valkyries is too far-fetched, I'm not sure I'm the one suffering from delusions.

 

[RetroFan]

The most important thing is that the stories are interesting. Realistic stories centered around events that can and do take place in the real world can be good. Stories that contain unrealistic elements, such as the supernatural, mythical worlds, aliens and time travel can also be good.

However no good are stories that are supposedly set in the real world, but contain such unrealistic events that they become ridiculous. For example, if an author had a fetish about tall girls, he could write a realistic story about a guy who meets a girls' basketball team in a bar. A fantasy story might be about a guy who is sucked into another dimension and to an island inhabited by women over six feet tall. No good is a story about an all female college that only accepts girls with heights of 5 feet ten or taller as the concept is too ridiculous to be believable.

Also no good are stories that suddenly skew from realistic to unrealistic, for example a story can appear totally grounded in the real world something totally unexpected and unrealistic happens. For example, a character is revealed to be a witch and uses her magical powers to solve a problem, when there is not one hint of witchcraft or magic at any stage in the earlier part of the story.

People can suspend disbelief and enjoy works such as musicals. Obviously, people in the real world don't go around singing and dancing, but that doesn't stop you enjoying a musical movie or stage show. However, a movie that throws in a musical number completely at random that is not a dream sequence and the movie gives no other indications to suggest it is a musical, this will not go down well with viewers.

 

[sr71plt]

No good is a story about an all female college that only accepts girls with heights of 5 feet ten or taller as the concept is too ridiculous to be believable.

Unless the alumni are only going to build the new college administration building if the girls' basketball team when the conference championship within the next four years. So, if the college needs a new administration building bad enough . . .

 

[Wifetheif]

realism in fantasy or fantasy ib realism

I got the oddest anon complaint the other day. re. my series The Boss From Hell about a wife blackmailed into serving as her husband's boss's slave for a month. Not entirely implausible I got this howler "your the wife thief!

i bet you love destroying marriages! i know you will go to hell since you obvesly know how to treat a woman so horribly! i will not pray for you, only pitty you. You took a happy couple then destroyed them just to bring them back together so you could have them sin again and again breaking their marriage vows! There is a special place in Hell for writers like you!"

Whoever this fruitcake is they HAVE to know that I created the characters and the situation, right? Its not like I am writing about real people! How do you respond to such clearly insane commentary? Should I be pleased that my writing was so convincing that this poor schmo could't discern between fact and fiction or should I be hoping that the men in the white coats turn up on their doorstep? I've been insulted and called names by my readers. I've also received very nice praises and suggestions. This response though ...

 

[sr71plt]

How do you respond to such clearly insane commentary?

I got such a complaint when I killed off a character in a mainstream mystery series. So, I devised a scenario for the next book in which the character hadn't really died (and doing that was quite fun)--and then I killed her off again in the next book as well.

 

[Wifetheif]

I got such a complaint when I killed off a character in a mainstream mystery series. So, I devised a scenario for the next book in which the character hadn't really died (and doing that was quite fun)--and then I killed her off again in the next book as well.

In real life I write nonfiction, That is fun and the lectures and speaking fees are nice but, for some reason I get really jazzed at the responses I get on Literotica.com. You have to wait months for book reviews but here I get responses and criticisms immediately. Not as many stories as I like end up hot but I usually score in the the high fours. Very few of my stories have low ratings and those are in the 'USUAL SUSPECT field of 'Loving Wives.' In those cases I know the story is good but that the readers have an axe to grind. Those comments don't bother me. I have also been inspired to write stories from a redears comment or request. You really can't do that with nonfiction.

 

[NaokoSmith]

Unless the alumni are only going to build the new college administration building if the girls' basketball team when the conference championship within the next four years. So, if the college needs a new administration building bad enough . . .

In a way, that makes RetroFan's point. If you have to do so much background work to make the premise seem plausible, it makes the story boring. Plus the reader will be thinking: 'why would the alumni be so keen for the girls' team to win the championship?' "Oh, well - because they happen all to be guys whose daughters are basketball players." 'That doesn't seem very plausible.' "They all dated and then married the original girls' basketball team players and that's how their own daughters came to be so tall."

Wouldn't you be better off writing the story about how the alumni-as-young-men met the original girls' basketball team in a bar instead. More plausible, and simpler to tell.

I'm a woman and I can think of reasons why I might hypothetically swap bodies with another woman.

That's true, OP was asking if women would plausibly want to swap bodies with other women. You were mentioning RuPaul later - there of course are people who wish they could have a different body in terms of gender. There are people who wish they were slimmer or more muscular or could still walk and run easily.

However, as a woman swapping into the body of another woman ... it makes me realise how much I like my chubby old body! rugby injury included

There are all those films where mothers end up in their daughters' body and vice versa. I think the fact that they are 'B', if not 'C' movies tells you something about that.

I can imagine reading about two women who wanted to swap bodies, in order to see the world from a different physical perspective - older/younger, taller/more petite - I can see it could be plausible, although I wouldn't in reality want to do it myself.

Or, here's another good scenario. You want to swap out of your body in order to find out what you look like - objectively. People describe you as being intimidating, when you think you are a soft touch. You swap into your colleague's body and see yourself from the outside - that could be an interesting story of self-discovery.

I define 'reality' as "whatever bites your ass" ... 'realism' means "matching an agreed-upon fantasy".

Auerbach calls that epideixis. Epideictic writing is in danger of 'preaching to the choir', although if you try to write in a way that presents something very new to your audience, Aristotle admits you run the risk of losing their attention. Auerbach did write about epideictic writing and realism in one of his chapters; I'll have to go back to my thread and look it up to see what he was saying about it.