Endless Curiosity

[ydahecnot]

For that, I would grow a beard and get tatt....well, grow a beard, anyway

 

[beachbaby179]

RA, I'm sorry for your loss. I can't imagine his pain if he thought that was the only way out of it. I hope he found peace and I hope you can too.

 

[just4friends]

Kids!!
Can't live with 'Em (teenagers)
Can't fucking deal with a moment without them..
Colleague is going through almost exactly the same now with daughter who was the same age dealing with all the same as my daughter.. Parenting Hell

 

[Endless_Night]

I'd like to know why so many who have dealt with jealousy on the board lash out in mean ways vs dealing with it themselves internally.

Why is jealousy so hard to deal with? Why does it bring out the bully and make people mean?

Interesting question, VT. I’ve never understood jealousy….

Until recently.

I can be a little possessive. Not in the “control what you do manner”, rather in the “must come first manner”. It’s a cold, logical thing. If it becomes clear a potential, serious partner isn’t the devoted type, no biggie, I simply move on.

Jealousy, on the other hand, seems to be a hot thing.

Finding Lit has allowed me to explore my submissive side. Part of which, at least for me, has included experiencing a lot of unfamiliar emotion. I get to be bratty, pouty, foot stompy, childish…you get the drift. The first time I felt a flash of jealousy it rocked me. Hot, hard, engulfing. It happened a few times before I managed to get it under control. I never let it leak onto the board, but the experience left me…deeply shaken.

To answer the question, I think it makes people loose control. Step out of sanity. Unreasonable, illogical, often misplaced fury. How can mean or bullying behavior be far behind?

What I don’t get is why people who experience it regularly don’t get in control. Is it because they can’t or don’t know how? Because their behavior is so crazy that they only way the can cope is to find some way to mentally justify their actions? Or, maybe, they’ve never known anything else so the don’t realize how ugly, mad, unhinged the behavior is?

Not meaning to invalidate those who struggle with jealousy. It seems to be a brutal, consuming thing. Hopefully someone with more experience that I will come along and offer some insight.

 

[ViciousTease]

Interesting question, VT. I’ve never understood jealousy….

Until recently.

I can be a little possessive. Not in the “control what you do manner”, rather in the “must come first manner”. It’s a cold, logical thing. If it becomes clear a potential, serious partner isn’t the devoted type, no biggie, I simply move on.

Jealousy, on the other hand, seems to be a hot thing.

Finding Lit has allowed me to explore my submissive side. Part of which, at least for me, has included experiencing a lot of unfamiliar emotion. I get to be bratty, pouty, foot stompy, childish…you get the drift. The first time I felt a flash of jealousy it rocked me. Hot, hard, engulfing. It happened a few times before I managed to get it under control. I never let it leak onto the board, but the experience left me…deeply shaken.

To answer the question, I think it makes people loose control. Step out of sanity. Unreasonable, illogical, often misplaced fury. How can mean or bullying behavior be far behind?

What I don’t get is why people who experience it regularly don’t get in control. Is it because they can’t or don’t know how? Because their behavior is so crazy that they only way the can cope is to find some way to mentally justify their actions? Or, maybe, they’ve never known anything else so the don’t realize how ugly, mad, unhinged the behavior is?

Not meaning to invalidate those who struggle with jealousy. It seems to be a brutal, consuming thing. Hopefully someone with more experience that I will come along and offer some insight.

I feel much the same way. I can be a little territorial, but I choose partners that I can trust (or maybe I'm just too trusting) so I don't generally get jealous.

Having said that, I have felt the sting of jealousy before and I know how overwhelming the feelings can be. Even so, I just looked at myself and worked to figure out where my insecurities were coming from. I never got mean or lashed out at anyone.

I don't want to piss anyone off on a Friday, but ... I often wonder if those who give in to jealousy time and again, especially those that let it dictate their behavior without ever taking responsibility, are also the type that like to play the victim. (That sounds really harsh, but I can't find a diplomatic way to say it.) I'm not wired that way, so I have trouble understanding it.

I realize that it is a powerful emotional ride. I'm interested to hear from those who have a bit more history with the issue. I'd like to better understand it.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

I'd like to know why so many who have dealt with jealousy on the board lash out in mean ways vs dealing with it themselves internally.

Why is jealousy so hard to deal with? Why does it bring out the bully and make people mean?

It's the fight or flight response. They feel threatened and defensive of their status in the relationship.

I'm not a fighter, I'm a flight-er. I pull back far enough and for long enough to get some perspective, recognize my triggers, adjust my boundaries and my expectations, and get on with life.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

...What I don’t get is why people who experience it regularly don’t get in control. Is it because they can’t or don’t know how? Because their behavior is so crazy that they only way the can cope is to find some way to mentally justify their actions? Or, maybe, they’ve never known anything else so the don’t realize how ugly, mad, unhinged the behavior is? ...

Because jealousy itself isn't the problem, it's only the symptom of a larger issue. A person needs to assess the cause of the jealousy before they can deal with it. If they can't see the cause, or don't change their behavior in order to avoid the same situation in the future, then it becomes a pattern that gets reinforced with each cycle.

 

[DarkSimian]

It's the fight or flight response. They feel threatened and defensive of their status in the relationship.

<snip>

But when I fight, I'm an "asshole", and when I flight, I'm a "coward". So I'm SOL either way *sigh*

 

[Endless_Night]

Because jealousy itself isn't the problem, it's only the symptom of a larger issue. A person needs to assess the cause of the jealousy before they can deal with it. If they can't see the cause, or don't change their behavior in order to avoid the same situation in the future, then it becomes a pattern that gets reinforced with each cycle.

Thank you, Honey.

That makes perfect sense. A lack of introspection that leads to a behavior becoming a habit. In this case a bad habit.

But when I fight, I'm an "asshole", and when I flight, I'm a "coward". So I'm SOL either way *sigh*

Perhaps that somewhat a matter of your companion of choice. Just a thought.

 

[DarkSimian]

Thank you, Honey.

That makes perfect sense. A lack of introspection that leads to a behavior becoming a habit. In this case a bad habit.



Perhaps that somewhat a matter of your companion of choice. Just a thought.

which is why I'm divorced again......

 

[Endless_Night]

which is why I'm divorced again......

There ya go. Pick a different type next time around!

 

[Endless_Night]

It occurs to me the question could be taken another way. What about jealousy over people you feel are more attractive?

I’ve run across this on many occasion and it is uuuuuuuuugly.

Pure hate, often vocal, frequently vicious, directed towards someone who has never done you any harm other than to exist. It seems more prevalent among the very young, but hardy confined to that age group entirely.

Case in point: A woman I’ve known for years, extremely pretty, grew into this kind of behavior (a mild version) in her early to mid-thirties. Her own beauty had not dimmed, but now, for whatever bizarre reason, she hated on younger women. Almost any younger women.

It became so intolerable I severed the relationship.

So confusing. No matter how pretty you are someone is always going to be more attractive, at least in someone’s eyes. And physical appeal is hardly the only measure of worth. And even if it were, it hardly excuses emotional brutality towards it’s possessors....

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

I'd like to know why so many who have dealt with jealousy on the board lash out in mean ways vs dealing with it themselves internally.

Why is jealousy so hard to deal with? Why does it bring out the bully and make people mean?

Maybe jealousy is one of those caveman ativisms that were so useful in propelling us forward as a species that remnants of it still exist.

Bonk have big stick, kill tasty dinner!
Crunk need big stick too!!

That might also explain why baser, aggressive behaviours are triggered by it. Ugly, back stabbing stuff that would ensure survival. I'm a big proponent of the theory that we are all still cavemen, just in heels and suits now

All that said, I have felt jealousy. I tend to share those feelings at the first possible chance with my partner, or whomever my jealousy is focused on. I believe that secrets destroy trust and intimacy. If you don't know I am jealous, than we separate juuuust that much more, and our experiences of things become slightly different. Add too many unshared thoughts and emotions and soon we are walking separate paths entirely. Sharing the concerns with my partner does one of two things. It either gets us back on track together, or it allows me to realize that our values don't mesh. So jealousy to me is not a big issue. I bring it out into the open and it gets dealt with.

The one that freaks me out is jealousy of others. People you don't know, who don't know you. This does not compute for me. Yeah, it might be nice to have a shit load of money like (insert favourite sports or movie star, oil baron, or whatever here), but spending emotion on things and people that will never be a reality for me? Totally pointless. Stalkers (at the extreme end), etc.. I don't get it.

 

[ViciousTease]

It occurs to me the question could be taken another way. What about jealousy over people you feel are more attractive?

I’ve run across this on many occasion and it is uuuuuuuuugly.

Pure hate, often vocal, frequently vicious, directed towards someone who has never done you any harm other than to exist. It seems more prevalent among the very young, but hardy confined to that age group entirely.

Case in point: A woman I’ve known for years, extremely pretty, grew into this kind of behavior (a mild version) in her early to mid-thirties. Her own beauty had not dimmed, but now, for whatever bizarre reason, she hated on younger women. Almost any younger women.

It became so intolerable I severed the relationship.

So confusing. No matter how pretty you are someone is always going to be more attractive, at least in someone’s eyes. And physical appeal is hardly the only measure of worth. And even if it were, it hardly excuses emotional brutality towards it’s possessors....

Oooooh, good question!

I have noticed that, at least within my circle of acquaintances, the most attractive in the group are the ones who get jealous of other attractive women. Perhaps they are so accustomed to being the pretty one that they don't know how to deal with the perceived competition? The ones who believe themselves to be less attractive don't appear to get jealous.

I fall into the less attractive/doesn't get jealous category. I'd like to think it's because I am more secure in my worth as a whole and comfortable with my appearance. Then again, my obsession with boobs could be a factor. Why be jealous? Just enjoy the view, that's my philosophy.

 

[1sickbastard]

What about jealousy over people you feel are more attractive?


So confusing. No matter how pretty you are someone is always going to be more attractive, at least in someone’s eyes. And physical appeal is hardly the only measure of worth. And even if it were, it hardly excuses emotional brutality towards it’s possessors....

Jealousy is rooted in insecurity and/or fear, or so it seems to me.
In your friend's case, my guess is that she hit that age when the beauty of youth fades rapidly and while she continues to be physically attractive, it required more effort, physically & mentally, to be able to 'compete' successfully against younger women for the attentions of men she found attractive.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

Boob jealousy! I'm guilty of that.

 

[AbsintheFather]

Jealousy is ugly. It's rooted in selfishness and selfishness is a very unattractive quality.

But as we've discussed earlier this week, flirtations are what makes this place fun. It just goes with the territory. So, I turn it around in my mind and am happy that the person I like is receiving positive attention. Happy that others also find them fun and attractive and happy that they can feel good about themselves for being on the receiving end of some positive attention.


Edit - I started writing this before I left for lunch and Enny's and subsequent comments about jealousy over other people.

 

[RubenesqueAphrodite]

RA, I'm sorry for your loss. I can't imagine his pain if he thought that was the only way out of it. I hope he found peace and I hope you can too.

They are still questioning if this was intentionally self inflicted or not. Regardless, I've lost a nephew, and will need to come to terms with that somehow. Thank you for your kind words.


As for today's question about jealousy.. I don't get jealous over other people's things, rather when something/someone that i feel belongs to me is being encroached upon I tend to get possessive. I don't necessarily equate possessiveness with jealousy, but the two do ride in the same boat quite a bit of the time.

Here on Lit though, I don't get jealous either with other people interacting as if they are involved. I just get annoyed at times by the cutsie cutsie behavior or outright wall fucking that goes on between "Lit couples".

When I see it, I think..okie dokie... Exhibitionist in da House!! And I don't even try to jump in or approach.

 

[AbsintheFather]

Boob jealousy! I'm guilty of that.

BS - you've got great boobs.

 

[Endless_Night]

Jealousy is rooted in insecurity and/or fear, or so it seems to me.
In your friend's case, my guess is that she hit that age when the beauty of youth fades rapidly and while she continues to be physically attractive, it required more effort, physically & mentally, to be able to 'compete' successfully against younger women for the attentions of men she found attractive.

No doubt, though it still seems a little…unstable, and certainly counter productive. Too, there seems to be a disconnect somewhere. After all, she could hardly expect to successfully garner the attention of all men. And, dear lord, why would you want to???

I’m not as much of a babe as I was at twenty. Not really an issue as I’m not interested in men that are twenty, or even men who are interested in women that are twenty. So why hate on women that are... twenty?

Perhaps it’s just…personal view? The need to feel you are attractive to as many as possible? Either way, still not pretty to watch in action.

 

[Endless_Night]

< I have noticed that, at least within my circle of acquaintances, the most attractive in the group are the ones who get jealous of other attractive women. >

Really? How interesting. My observations have run the other way, which is why my friend seemed such a curious case.

Boob jealousy! I'm guilty of that.

Me too!

Edit - I started writing this before I left for lunch and Enny's and subsequent comments about jealousy over other people.

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

No doubt, though it still seems a little…unstable, and certainly counter productive. Too, there seems to be a disconnect somewhere. After all, she could hardly expect to successfully garner the attention of all men. And, dear lord, why would you want to???

I’m not as much of a babe as I was at twenty. Not really an issue as I’m not interested in men that are twenty, or even men who are interested in women that are twenty. So why hate on women that are... twenty?

Perhaps it’s just…personal view? The need to feel you are attractive to as many as possible? Either way, still not pretty to watch in action.

I have encountered jealousy like this. As you say, ugly from every angle. And the people who practice it are unhappy. Snap out of it, folks! My bestie gets jealous, though she has come a very long way in defeating some body image problems etc to get past it all. She is doing well.

But I was on the receiving end of this at a funeral of all places. We were putting a close friend's boyfriend in the ground, and two "ladies" there could do nothing but spew hatred and envy the entire time, culminating in a hysterical screaming fit in the parking lot afterwards. Ummm... really? WTF, get a grip.

 

[RubenesqueAphrodite]

too many to quote..
I don't understand being jealous like that. "Reminiscent" perhaps, of your former self, but certainly not jealous.
You have to work with what God gave you.

 

[SassySheDevil]

Boob jealousy! I'm guilty of that.

I am as well. While some are jealous of my overly obnoxious boobs, I am jealous of their perky, can buy cute bras boobs.
(don't be jealous of the back pain, trust me)


I have seen and been jealous on many occasions, but I usually admit to my jealousy. I tell people I am jealous. I will also admit to being in therapy and jealousy and insecurity have been a focus before. I am now in a position of understanding that they come from my own insecurities. Not something that others have. I've been insanely jealous of some of the women on here because of either physical beauty, their amazing personality and even their sexy voices/accents. But I have never taken my own insecurity and used it to hate on someone. The ones I think I've been most jealous of it was because I thought their beauty/personality/misc traits would cause me to lose something, and again, I realized that it was my own insecurity and jealousy that was making me lose the things I feared losing.

I am slightly stronger now because I understand that it is my problem, and no one elses. So when it comes up, I sit back and ask myself why I'm so insecure of that person. Confidence is something we all like seeing in another person, so I'm working on more confidence in myself.

I have had jealousy towards me also, which because of my insecurity, I never believed would be a thing. Why would someone be jealous of me? I've seen the hateful kind (where someone talks badly about you or to you) and the kinder version (where someone just tells you flat out and giggles over their own embarrassment) and I don't understand the mean version. We women tear each other down enough, why hate on someone for something that they don't control (looks, etc) Why hate on them at all. It only make you look ugly.

I'm married to the most secure man on the planet who really doesn't know what the word jealous means, I envy his security sooooooooooooooooo much. !!!!

I am now learning to walk away from the toxic things though.

 

[1sickbastard]

No doubt, though it still seems a little…unstable, and certainly counter productive. Too, there seems to be a disconnect somewhere. After all, she could hardly expect to successfully garner the attention of all men. And, dear lord, why would you want to???

I’m not as much of a babe as I was at twenty. Not really an issue as I’m not interested in men that are twenty, or even men who are interested in women that are twenty. So why hate on women that are... twenty?

Perhaps it’s just…personal view? The need to feel you are attractive to as many as possible? Either way, still not pretty to watch in action.

Let's not kid ourselves here.

Physical attractiveness is a competitive edge, not just in finding someone for a personal relationship, but in any social setting; workplace, judicial system, politics.
Some pretty people know this and use it for all it's worth.
Some pretty people don't or won't acknowledge this.

From my experience, the pretty people who do know it either compensate with extra effort to stay attractive or develop other advantages to compensate for the ravages of time and aging.
The smarties will do both.
The wise will do both, but will find that inner beauty becomes stronger as time marches on.
It's the idiots who have a hard time coping.

I think it's far worse for women, in general, because physical beauty seems to be far more important in evaluating a woman's place in the social pecking order.

Don't get me wrong, because physical attractiveness is important for men as well, but a higher value is assigned to earnings, physical size/strength and charisma.

And no, I can't back up these assertions with any empirical data. I'm only stating my personal, subjective observations.