The Concept of Fiction. Is it difficult to understand?

[oggbashan]

Several comments on some of my stories over the past 18 months show a lack of understanding of the definition of Fiction despite my disclaimer at the start of my stories.

Here are two definitions:

From Merriam-Webster:

Simple Definition of fiction

: written stories about people and events that are not real : literature that tells stories which are imagined by the writer.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fiction

Full Definition of fiction

1
a : something invented by the imagination or feigned; specifically : an invented story b : fictitious literature (as novels or short stories) c : a work of fiction; especially : novel

2
a : an assumption of a possibility as a fact irrespective of the question of its truth <a legal fiction> b : a useful illusion or pretense

3
: the action of feigning or of creating with the imagination

Yet comments suggest that my stories are flawed because they aren't realistic. When someone complains of a story called 'Genie' that no one finds genies in bottles, or that the genie is unrealistic because he/she doesn't act in a traditionally accepted genie manner, they don't understand that fiction is a creation of the imagination, no matter how realistic the scenario.

I and jeanne_d_artois write about ghosts. My ghosts don't follow the traditional ghost story scenarios. So what? It's my imagination and it is FICTION.

I have written about fantasy planets inhabited by unusual women. Those stories seem acceptable because they are obviously fantastic fiction.

Yet a couple of my stories, including my latest Westry Bay, are about applications of technology that are beyond current capabilities - in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy category. Yet I get complaints that it isn't possible now.

Has anyone else had comments or feedback complaining that their stories are unrealistic?

 

[oggbashan]

Addition:

In the above post I am not referring to flaws in the writing or plot that make the story internally inconsistent.

For example if you create a world in which you state "There are no large predators" you can't have the heroine being chased by a lion on page 3.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Several comments on some of my stories over the past 18 months show a lack of understanding of the definition of Fiction despite my disclaimer at the start of my stories.

Here are two definitions:

From Merriam-Webster:

Simple Definition of fiction

: written stories about people and events that are not real : literature that tells stories which are imagined by the writer.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fiction

Full Definition of fiction

1
a : something invented by the imagination or feigned; specifically : an invented story b : fictitious literature (as novels or short stories) c : a work of fiction; especially : novel

2
a : an assumption of a possibility as a fact irrespective of the question of its truth <a legal fiction> b : a useful illusion or pretense

3
: the action of feigning or of creating with the imagination

Yet comments suggest that my stories are flawed because they aren't realistic. When someone complains of a story called 'Genie' that no one finds genies in bottles, or that the genie is unrealistic because he/she doesn't act in a traditionally accepted genie manner, they don't understand that fiction is a creation of the imagination, no matter how realistic the scenario.

I and jeanne_d_artois write about ghosts. My ghosts don't follow the traditional ghost story scenarios. So what? It's my imagination and it is FICTION.

I have written about fantasy planets inhabited by unusual women. Those stories seem acceptable because they are obviously fantastic fiction.

Yet a couple of my stories, including my latest Westry Bay, are about applications of technology that are beyond current capabilities - in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy category. Yet I get complaints that it isn't possible now.

Has anyone else had comments or feedback complaining that their stories are unrealistic?

I usta get it all the time. I rarely get comments these days. I use a huge fund of personal and professional experiences to use in my stories. I know every human has diverse aptitudes and skills and means for sexual activities, so I avoid stereotypes that aren't typical.

But readers dispute everything.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

A lot of readers come here to read "real life stories". They desperately want the stories they are reading to be "true" even when you tell them it's fiction. Of course some of them don't know what the word fiction means.

 

[JackLuis]

I suspect many readers have a misconception of Reality also. In fact I sometimes believe reality is unreal! Who would have thought a Trump Presidency was a possible reality, yet here we are?

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Yes.

I have a story about a coven of witches. They're immortal. They pop in and out of time. They disappear before your eyes. They bring people back from the dead.

Its set in Salem, Mass during the witch hunts.

What did someone choose to complain about? That Salem was a "port town," and "wouldn't have had crops," like I said (Never mind that that's not true.)

They ranted about niggling details about Salem not being historically correct and said I needed to consult an atlas.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Has anyone else had comments or feedback complaining that their stories are unrealistic?

Reader comments are interesting and sometimes entertaining, but they are rarely valuable. I mean, they're written by the kind of people who hang out around erotica sites. Even when they are the brighter sort, rubbing cocks and clits tends to lower apparent IQ.

That said, two of my stories are set firmly in the here and now, one claims to be but has an unlikely premise, and the rest are drenched in fantasy, often science fantasy. None of those involve realistic or possible science. I make it sound plausible, but it isn't.

So far I've gotten comments on how lush and interesting the settings are, and a couple from people who disliked a couple of the characters. None from people pointing out that the setting or background science is unworkable, and that's despite stories with FTL communication and drugs that make women behave they way men want them to. In one I extended catholicism into the mythological, but did it a positive way. I expected hate mail from both religion haters and ardent catholics. I got neither and some chapters of that story have my highest ratings.

So... readers. Go figure.

At first I figured my readers were in a demographic that didn't have even my very casual level of background in sciences. But people studying neuroscience and psychology have popped up in my fan mail, and while in conversations the neuroscience major was happy to point out why the brain doesn't work that way, she couldn't care less, and got off on the stories.

Here's my guesses on why I get away with it:

1. When I screw with science, I'm always making a social point. If you abuse science, but do it in a way that sounds vaguely plausible, and do it to prop up a social message instead of only a plot... readers will sense it's all a metaphor, and then it's ok.

2. My stories tend to be about character evolution. Clarissa discovers why submission is what she wanted all along, despite the fact that she was raised in a culture that considers it demeaning. Scott learns that just because he can snap his fingers and get girls, that he's a long way from being an adult and has growing up to do. Marie discovers that her essential strength and ability to love aren't compromised, even when she's driven into deep submission. Keiko goes, across the span of two stories, from being a rather naive abused sex toy to someone who gets a vast lesson in love, mercy, and social responsibility. Who cares if her mind-control ability is plausible - what happens to her is so interesting that no one cares about that.

Bottom line, I think people ignore the science because my stories make the readers think about much larger issues, and the science fades into the background, where I want it to be. I write modern mythology. Nobody complains about the realism of mythology.

 

[oggbashan]

...

Bottom line, I think people ignore the science because my stories make the readers think about much larger issues, and the science fades into the background, where I want it to be. I write modern mythology. Nobody complains about the realism of mythology.

I have quoted only part of your interesting post because of the last sentence.

What started me with this thread is that some of my readers HAVE complained about the realism of mythology, whether extensions of modern science or real mythology of genies, ghosts, witches and goddesses.

As Zeb said above, some readers come for 'true life' stories. They don't seem to know that most 'true life' magazines are not presenting reality but docudrama massaged for impact.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

I have quoted only part of your interesting post because of the last sentence.

What started me with this thread is that some of my readers HAVE complained about the realism of mythology, whether extensions of modern science or real mythology of genies, ghosts, witches and goddesses.

As Zeb said above, some readers come for 'true life' stories. They don't seem to know that most 'true life' magazines are not presenting reality but docudrama massaged for impact.

Apparently those readers realise on page one that I'm not going to feed them a "true life" story, and move on fast. I mean, look at the first page of "The Captured Princess." Or even "Why I Love My Job." These are definitely telegraphing that it's fantasy story hour. Maybe you need a manticore in the first paragraph?

Dunno. I think you just run with a different crowd somehow.

 

[oggbashan]

Apparently those readers realise on page one that I'm not going to feed them a "true life" story, and move on fast. I mean, look at the first page of "The Captured Princess." Or even "Why I Love My Job." These are definitely telegraphing that it's fantasy story hour. Maybe you need a manticore in the first paragraph?

Dunno. I think you just run with a different crowd somehow.

From the beginning of Westry Bay:

Copyright Oggbashan August 2016

The author asserts the moral right to be identified as the author of this work.

This is a work of fiction. The events described here are imaginary; the settings and characters are fictitious and are not intended to represent specific places or living persons. This is a fantasy.

However it takes some time for the story to reveal that the women are androids.

But a story titled 'Genie'?

Why comment that it is unrealistic?

 

[TxRad]

In one story, I jerked the names of three Texas towns out of my ass and stuck them close together. Two of the names happen to match the last names of two characters. That was the part i needed.

One of the first commenters told me those towns were nowhere near each other in Texas nor were any of them in the part of Texas I described. Well, no shit, what part of fiction don't you understand.

If it hadn't been anymouse, I would have sent them a message telling them they lived in the wrong Texas.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

They ranted about niggling details about Salem not being historically correct and said I needed to consult an atlas.

Sometimes I think y'all write for a different Literotica than I do. I mean I do skip the more popular categories, but even accounting for that, I've had one reader comment she thought I was psychotic, and she later read another of my stories and apologized. Folk love my stuff, if comments are to be believed. I get the occasional critical comment (one of my stories definitely brought in a different crowd, and rattled them a little) but I never get nitpicked or truly hassled.

I suspect I have a small circle of readers by most standards here, and the emails I get are about 98% from a fairly narrow demographic, and they are all very nice. Bottom line, a lot of my writing appeals to submissive women and probably bores or horrifies other groups. So I get nice sweet notes saying how my stories resonated with them, how did I get so much insight, thank you for touching my life as you have... I mean it's just about pure ego food, with seldom a discouraging word, and the skies are not cloudy all day. I've had one creepy email in three years. The least friendly place on this site for me is AH, but ignore and moderation have solved that.

You can all keep your whackjob fans, that's for sure.

Addendum: Thinking back, the story that got the most critical comment was The Captured Princess. Said princess got captured by a truly evil prince with access to futuristic brainwashing and torture methodologies. She survives and ultimately escapes, and frankly I thought I was being unrealistic letting the ending go even that well for her. But people dissed that story more than usual because they wanted their Disney Tiara Princess ending, and they wanted it a lot. So my only issue is the opposite of the OP's - when people want my stories to be different, they want them to be LESS realistic.

Again, go figure.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Well that was a rare one. I don't get hate at all, just the occasional nitpicker. They fixate on weird things.

Someone complaining about a genie, that's .... Really dumb.

Sometimes I think y'all write for a different Literotica than I do. I mean I do skip the more popular categories, but even accounting for that, I've had one reader comment she thought I was psychotic, and she later read another of my stories and apologized. Folk love my stuff, if comments are to be believed. I get the occasional critical comment (one of my stories definitely brought in a different crowd, and rattled them a little) but I never get nitpicked or truly hassled.

I suspect I have a small circle of readers by most standards here, and the emails I get are about 98% from a fairly narrow demographic, and they are all very nice. Bottom line, a lot of my writing appeals to submissive women and probably bores or horrifies other groups. So I get nice sweet notes saying how my stories resonated with them, how did I get so much insight, thank you for touching my life as you have... I mean it's just about pure ego food, with seldom a discouraging word, and the skies are not cloudy all day. I've had one creepy email in three years. The least friendly place on this site for me is AH, but ignore and moderation have solved that.

You can all keep your whackjob fans, that's for sure.

Addendum: Thinking back, the story that got the most critical comment was The Captured Princess. Said princess got captured by a truly evil prince with access to futuristic brainwashing and torture methodologies. She survives and ultimately escapes, and frankly I thought I was being unrealistic letting the ending go even that well for her. But people dissed that story more than usual because they wanted their Disney Tiara Princess ending, and they wanted it a lot. So my only issue is the opposite of the OP's - when people want my stories to be different, they want them to be LESS realistic.

Again, go figure.

 

[NotWise]

Has anyone else had comments or feedback complaining that their stories are unrealistic?

I haven't, but then a lot of what I've written is in I/T and people there *really* don't want things to be realistic.

Maybe if the "this is fiction" disclaimer at the beginning doesn't work you should try telling the readers that the story is totally true, but the names have been changes to avoid possible liabilities.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Yet comments suggest that my stories are flawed because they aren't realistic. When someone complains of a story called 'Genie' that no one finds genies in bottles, or that the genie is unrealistic because he/she doesn't act in a traditionally accepted genie manner, they don't understand that fiction is a creation of the imagination, no matter how realistic the scenario.

I and jeanne_d_artois write about ghosts. My ghosts don't follow the traditional ghost story scenarios. So what? It's my imagination and it is FICTION.

I have mixed feelings about this one. On the one hand, yes, fiction, and a lot of the "rules" for supernatural critters are quite recent invention - e.g. the idea of sunlight destroying vampires seems to have originated with 1922's "Nosferatu".

On the other... I expect vampires to feel like damn vampires. I can take sci-fi vampires, magical vampires, hideous Nosferatu-type vampires, pretty-boy Anne Rice vampires, Chinese hopping vampires, soulless monster vampires, angsty remorseful vampires mourning their lost loves, vampires who are repelled by crosses, vampires who ignore them, whatever. I'm pretty flexible. But to me, vampires are about parasitism; if your vampires never have to deal with the consequences of drinking blood (or metaphorical equivalent), it feels like a bit of a cheat.

Likewise, if I tell you a story that starts with Jane making a bet with the Devil that she can harvest an entire apple orchard overnight... that's a well-known story archetype (Aarne-Thompson Type 756B, to be precise) and that sets certain expectations for the reader.

Creative interpretations are OK; the Devil can make trees grow new apples as fast as Jane can pick them, or Jane can do her "harvesting" with a bulldozer. But Jane can't just get out of it by changing her name and going into witness protection, and the Devil can't just say "well you did it, but bad luck, I decided not to honour my part of the contract". If I do those things, I can expect my readers to feel cheated, unless I've done a VERY good job on selling them on a break with convention.

Complaining about a genie in a bottle, though? That's very odd; it's a pretty common trope.

 

[JustaSCOUNDREL]

I suspect many readers have a misconception of Reality also. In fact I sometimes believe reality is unreal! Who would have thought a Trump Presidency was a possible reality, yet here we are?

And in this case Reality is a hell of a lot scarier than Fiction.

 

[SamScribble]

In another life, I was commissioned to write an in-depth article profiling a successful international businessman.

One of the questions that I asked during a three-hour interview (with fine wine) was: ‘To what do you ascribe the fact that your customers tend to be people your competitors would consider to be ‘dream’ customers?’

My interviewee frowned (but only briefly), and then said: ‘I think the secret is that we make it hard for bad customers to find us.’

I suspect that the same is true of writing. There are readers you want. And there are readers that you can do without. A reader who reads a story on a fiction site and then complains that it is not real is not a reader that the writer needs. Block them – and their comments – from your mind. Enjoy the readers who appreciate what you have written.

 

[Jay321]

In one story, I jerked the names of three Texas towns out of my ass and stuck them close together. Two of the names happen to match the last names of two characters. That was the part i needed.

One of the first commenters told me those towns were nowhere near each other in Texas nor were any of them in the part of Texas I described. Well, no shit, what part of fiction don't you understand.

If it hadn't been anymouse, I would have sent them a message telling them they lived in the wrong Texas.

I hope your anymouse doesn't read Stephen King. He created several small towns in Maine that don't exist.

 

[oggbashan]

I've had another comment today, this time not anonymous.

He, presumably he, thinks of an Incest/Taboo story that the sister should have the people who set her up for rape arrested and prosecuted. In the story she gets revenge anyway.

Hello? It's a fantasy, a story.

My story is fairly mild compared with mainstream fiction and many movies. It is also mild compared with many BDSM and Non-Consent stories on Literotica.

I'm beginning to think it is a personal vendetta against oggbashan stories.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Its the feathered hat. I just want to knock it off.

I've had another comment today, this time not anonymous.

He, presumably he, thinks of an Incest/Taboo story that the sister should have the people who set her up for rape arrested and prosecuted. In the story she gets revenge anyway.

Hello? It's a fantasy, a story.

My story is fairly mild compared with mainstream fiction and many movies. It is also mild compared with many BDSM and Non-Consent stories on Literotica.

I'm beginning to think it is a personal vendetta against oggbashan stories.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

I'm beginning to think it is a personal vendetta against oggbashan stories.

I remember one whackjob who started posting really odd comments. Not exactly malicious; just snide and completely off the wall interpretations of my stories. If you've ever read my "Why I Hate My Roommate", try to imagine the two male love interests as gay. That's what this commentator decided was the case. It was a clear case of jerking my chain, except like I said, it didn't manage to sound malicious. I turned off anon comments for a while, which provoked an anon email saying in effect "aww, you're no fun."

I mean... erotica site. There are ging to be crazy people coming here. Crazy people are everywhere in large enough numbers to be concerned about, and Lit has a large population of readers. Crazies are a statistical given.

Consider the effect of categories, too. Yeah, there's some kinkshaming here, but I don't think avid incest readers are uniformly going to represent the best integrated of personalities. I'd expect some dangerously bitter, angry people in LW, especially given the tie between domestic disputes and murder. Ironically all the readers of noncon who have contacted me seem to be female and quite nice, but that just means the crazies in that group of readers know better than to leave an internet trail. I did do one dark mind control story that attracted some male commenters I'm not completely comfortable sharing a planet with.

I absolutely wouldn't categorize everyone with a kink as worrisome - but if you're deliberately looking for crazies, certain sexual kinks probably make a good initial filter. I've already contacted the FBI over one of my contacts from here - he wasn't threatening me, but he was offering material for a story that clearly suggested he'd witnessed an unreported rape of an underaged victim.

It wouldn't shock me if some of the rules here are intended to drive the real crazies to other sites. Pedos, animal abusers and torture killers probably struggle to get their fix here. That said, and to give everyone their chill for the day, I'm utterly certain that there's material on this site being internalized by some teenaged, future BTK or Toybox Killer. There are reasons I won't use sites with less strict rules.

 

[oggbashan]

Its the feathered hat. I just want to knock it off.

Feathered? No. It's trimmed with Ermine - only allowed to Royals and higher nobility.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Even worse!

Feathered? No. It's trimmed with Ermine - only allowed to Royals and higher nobility.

 

[oggbashan]

Even worse!

Maybe. But like the whole of my costume it was artificial. No real ermine was harmed in the making of my hat.

Unlike Henry VIII's wives.

 

[TxRad]

Feathered? No. It's trimmed with Ermine - only allowed to Royals and higher nobility.

Feathers? Ermine? I thought it was a pie you placed there when you were shaking hands and forgot about.