Dom/sub without dependence

[hooterbif]

I am in a D/S relationship as the D. My S would love it to be 24/7.

I do not want a financial/legal dependent. That is, I think that it is reasonable for a child to be a financial/legal dependent of mine, but not an adult. At least, I don't want that in a romantic relationship partner.

Is it possible to have a real 24/7 D/S relationship while expecting both people to pay for themselves, make their own career decisions, open their own car doors, pay for half of dinner dates, etc.?

 

[MeekMe]

I am in a D/S relationship as the D. My S would love it to be 24/7.

I do not want a financial/legal dependent. That is, I think that it is reasonable for a child to be a financial/legal dependent of mine, but not an adult. At least, I don't want that in a romantic relationship partner.

Is it possible to have a real 24/7 D/S relationship while expecting both people to pay for themselves, make their own career decisions, open their own car doors, pay for half of dinner dates, etc.?

Yes. Power exchange doesn't suddenly erase going to work and paying bills. If you can't afford a relationship with one working partner, then don't do it. Even if you can afford it but don't want to have that, don't do it.

This sounds like someone got stuck in Fantasyland and thinks that being 24/7 requires being chained up in the basement all day. A lot of s-types are disappointed to find out that kitty litter still has to be scooped and yes, you have to keep putting pants on to go to work.

Lots of people in power exchange relationships still live independently, that doesn't take away that one person has given another the controls.

 

[cookiecat]

Does your s want to be a stay at home submissive?

You can make it what you want. Being in a 24/7 "fulltime" D/s relationship is just another relationship. Bills have to get paid, your future need to be planned (and subsidized!!) Wouldn't it be grand to have the luxury of having one partner stay at home, whose job was soley to focus on your pleasure!?

I guess it depends what you want the D/s to look like. If you as the D expect her to work fulltime then come home and do everything around the house and suck your cock because you said so... that, in my book, is a problem. You can do a load of laundry and still be D.

Being submissive doesnt relieve a person of his/her responsibilities as an adult. Calling yourself dominant doesnt relieve you of your responsibility to help out.

D/s is simply a different way to agree on the power dynamic between 2 people... it's up to you guys to decide what that realistically means for each of you.

 

[hooterbif]

In answer to the questions above, I don't want a financial dependent. That is, I only want a relationship with someone who pays for herself.

As to what she wants, she would love to be a 24/7, submissive, 50's wife.

As it is, she texts me every afternoon to ask me which dress and which adult beverage I would like to have waiting for me when I get home from work. About an hour before I come home from work, she takes a very long bath to prepare herself for me (her job is from 5 am to Noon). By the way, she is at an attractiveness level where everybody in the room just stops doing what they were doing when she walks in - I've seen many grown women just start stuttering and stammering when they talk to her first.

While all this is great, I would NEVER offer for her to be my financial dependent in order to "buy" this experience.

 

[CutieMouse]

In answer to the questions above, I don't want a financial dependent. That is, I only want a relationship with someone who pays for herself.

As to what she wants, she would love to be a 24/7, submissive, 50's wife.

As it is, she texts me every afternoon to ask me which dress and which adult beverage I would like to have waiting for me when I get home from work. About an hour before I come home from work, she takes a very long bath to prepare herself for me (her job is from 5 am to Noon). By the way, she is at an attractiveness level where everybody in the room just stops doing what they were doing when she walks in - I've seen many grown women just start stuttering and stammering when they talk to her first.

While all this is great, I would NEVER offer for her to be my financial dependent in order to "buy" this experience.

The above - is that describing a person you are currently in a relationship with, or a description of the relationship you're looking for?

I want to be sure I understand what I'm reading, before addressing it...

As for "dependence" in a D/s relationship -

I own my own home.
I own my own car.
I buy my own things.
I work full time.

Now, he spends more on the relationship than I do, but that is partly because we live in different states and he has made the decision to budget long weekends every 5-6 weeks.

He also pays for most things on those long weekends, because as sexist as it is of me... I'm a lady. I don't buy my own drinks, I don't pay for my dinner, I usually don't open my own doors, etc. I can do those things (and more), but I don't; because, girl. Every man in my life knows and accepts this about me.

When he's in town I also make sure the kitchen is stocked so we don't HAVE to eat out. I pick him up at the airport/if he needs to take care of business while in town he borrows my car so he doesn't have to rent one (something he's not used to). If I find a play or concert or event I think we might enjoy, I pick up the cost of tickets.

I don't nickle and dime my relationships, and I won't be in a relationship with someone who nickle and dimes me. In financial matters, as in everything else, it's about balance.

 

[SpunThings]

In answer to the questions above, I don't want a financial dependent. That is, I only want a relationship with someone who pays for herself.

As to what she wants, she would love to be a 24/7, submissive, 50's wife.

As it is, she texts me every afternoon to ask me which dress and which adult beverage I would like to have waiting for me when I get home from work. About an hour before I come home from work, she takes a very long bath to prepare herself for me (her job is from 5 am to Noon). By the way, she is at an attractiveness level where everybody in the room just stops doing what they were doing when she walks in - I've seen many grown women just start stuttering and stammering when they talk to her first.

While all this is great, I would NEVER offer for her to be my financial dependent in order to "buy" this experience.

It doesn't sound like you two are very compatible. I'm not sure what her attractiveness to others has to do with whether you two are right for each other. Have you told her you don't want what she wants? Will she be ok with what you want without being resentful?

The other posters above are also right.

 

[cookiecat]

In answer to the questions above, I don't want a financial dependent. That is, I only want a relationship with someone who pays for herself.

As to what she wants, she would love to be a 24/7, submissive, 50's wife.

As it is, she texts me every afternoon to ask me which dress and which adult beverage I would like to have waiting for me when I get home from work. About an hour before I come home from work, she takes a very long bath to prepare herself for me (her job is from 5 am to Noon). By the way, she is at an attractiveness level where everybody in the room just stops doing what they were doing when she walks in - I've seen many grown women just start stuttering and stammering when they talk to her first.

While all this is great, I would NEVER offer for her to be my financial dependent in order to "buy" this experience.

Is this the same little girl from your other post?

I'm gonna be blunt. This sounds just... off. Why do you think her being your financial dependent is buying the experience? It's a relationship. So she gets up at the crack 'o dawn, works 7 hours, makes you dinner, then takes a long bath just to be cleaned up for you?

Ummmm... what's she getting from you, other than you telling her what to wear?

Edited - I just reread some of your posts. This is the same girl who questions your Domliness because of the second girl you brought in??

 

[Miles Long]

How much time have the two of you spent talking about what you both want your relationship to look like? I don't think it matters so much what TPE or 24/7 means to the world at large, but what it means to you two and how it relates to what you want your daily lives and dynamic to be. If you agree on the big stuff, you can probably have a happy relationship. If you can't agree on the big stuff, you're probably just incompatible with each other. The only way to know is to have some thorough, honest conversations and go from there.

 

[CutieMouse]

I've had a bit more coffee, and this just clicked -

As to what she wants, she would love to be a 24/7, submissive, 50's wife.

and

While all this is great, I would NEVER offer for her to be my financial dependent in order to "buy" this experience.

Let me translate this for you... you are equating her desire to run a home/make your life easier (which can be a full time job) with prostitution (paying for the "experience"), because being a homemaker isn't a paid position with a 401k, health insurance, taxes, direct deposit, etc.*

I'm hoping that sinks in a bit.

Instead of accepting and acknowledging her desire to be in a position to run a home, cater to your whims, make your life easier, take things off your plate so you don't have to lift a finger at home... you're worrying about her not "carrying her weight" financially.

In the mean time, you're also perfectly happy for her to work full time, pay her 1/2 of the cheque at dinner, and prioritize you outside of work (works + plays kinky Donna Reed so things are spic span and spankable when you get home)? What's she getting out of this?

How old is the relationship? And is it possible that she's talking about the "submissive 50s housewife" as a long term goal she has that may not even involve YOU?

*Disclaimer - I was a "50s housewife" for over a decade. My ex-husband didn't see that as something that "financially contributed" to the household, and at times acted like I was taking advantage of him. I was supposed to be thankful he was generous enough to bear the burden of supporting the family... even though every time I offered to work outside the home, he rejected the idea.

What he never really understood (until after I'd left him), was how much value I offered in trade. Without me running the household budget, his expenses doubled, without me running his errands, his free time was cut in half, etc.

When I hear a man worry or complain there is a fiscal imbalance to having a partner who is willing to give up her own financial security (I lost 12 years of paying into social security, 401k, savings accounts, etc PLUS the decade+ employment gap)... it makes me question his values.

 

[Miles Long]

I've had a bit more coffee, and this just clicked -



and



Let me translate this for you... you are equating her desire to run a home/make your life easier (which can be a full time job) with prostitution (paying for the "experience"), because being a homemaker isn't a paid position with a 401k, health insurance, taxes, direct deposit, etc.*

I'm hoping that sinks in a bit.

Instead of accepting and acknowledging her desire to be in a position to run a home, cater to your whims, make your life easier, take things off your plate so you don't have to lift a finger at home... you're worrying about her not "carrying her weight" financially.

In the mean time, you're also perfectly happy for her to work full time, pay her 1/2 of the cheque at dinner, and prioritize you outside of work (works + plays kinky Donna Reed so things are spic span and spankable when you get home)? What's she getting out of this?

How old is the relationship? And is it possible that she's talking about the "submissive 50s housewife" as a long term goal she has that may not even involve YOU?

*Disclaimer - I was a "50s housewife" for over a decade. My ex-husband didn't see that as something that "financially contributed" to the household, and at times acted like I was taking advantage of him. I was supposed to be thankful he was generous enough to bear the burden of supporting the family... even though every time I offered to work outside the home, he rejected the idea.

What he never really understood (until after I'd left him), was how much value I offered in trade. Without me running the household budget, his expenses doubled, without me running his errands, his free time was cut in half, etc.

When I hear a man worry or complain there is a fiscal imbalance to having a partner who is willing to give up her own financial security (I lost 12 years of paying into social security, 401k, savings accounts, etc PLUS the decade+ employment gap)... it makes me question his values.

My coffee still hasn't kicked in yet, so I'll just say ^^^^.

 

[hooterbif]

Let me translate this for you... you are equating her desire to run a home/make your life easier (which can be a full time job) with prostitution (paying for the "experience"), because being a homemaker isn't a paid position with a 401k, health insurance, taxes, direct deposit, etc.*

I'm hoping that sinks in a bit.

I have witnessed, first-hand, women who claim that dressing up, making dinner, etc. is worth them not having to work full time and directly benefiting from a man's income. I have also directly outsourced all those functions (and paid for it). It turns out that hiring people to do those things is far far far less expensive than paying a woman in a relationship to do those things. Also, I know for certain that I would happily skip many of those things if I was being charged for them. If someone said to me, "Hey, I will pour you a drink when you get home. Would you be willing to pay me for that?" I'd say, "You have to be out of your mind." Nor would I ever say, "I took out the trash today, are you willing to pay me for that?"

By the way, she does not clean the house. I outsource that.

Instead of accepting and acknowledging her desire to be in a position to run a home, cater to your whims, make your life easier, take things off your plate so you don't have to lift a finger at home... you're worrying about her not "carrying her weight" financially.

Dressing up in a miniskirt is not "running" the household.

She does not cater to my whims. I cater to her whims. By your logic, she should pay me. She is the one who desperately wants me to tell her what to wear when I get home from work. She wants me to tell her what drink to make. She is the one who wants me to hogtie her on the kitchen island for eight hours while I watch her on video from work.

I would say that 90% of the time, I don't even have enough time/energy to comply with her wishes. That makes her sad.

In the mean time, you're also perfectly happy for her to work full time

She works three days a week, so less than half time. I don't care if she doesn't work at all or works 80 hours a week. I just don't want a financial dependent. I don't need more children.

....(works + plays kinky Donna Reed so things are spic span and spankable when you get home)?

She doesn't clean the house. I would never ask her to clean.

What's she getting out of this?

Hahaha, that's funny. She desperately wants MORE spanking than I give her. She wants more submission. If one of us is getting more than the other, it is her.

How old is the relationship? And is it possible that she's talking about the "submissive 50s housewife" as a long term goal she has that may not even involve YOU?

It is three years old. After about six months, she told me that she wanted to be with me for the rest of her life and she would never leave me. I would never prevent her from pursuing her dreams, even if they excluded me being in her life.

What he never really understood (until after I'd left him), was how much value I offered in trade. Without me running the household budget, his expenses doubled, without me running his errands, his free time was cut in half, etc.

When I hear a man worry or complain there is a fiscal imbalance to having a partner who is willing to give up her own financial security (I lost 12 years of paying into social security, 401k, savings accounts, etc PLUS the decade+ employment gap)... it makes me question his values.

I don't deny your experience. All I can do is share my experience.

I can easily outsource all the functions you mention for far far far less than half my income. In fact, I have. You know what's better? If the people I outsource do not do a good job and I replace them, that has no relation to my romantic relationship! Also, if I do replace them, I don't have to pay them alimony!!!!

 

[hooterbif]

It doesn't sound like you two are very compatible. I'm not sure what her attractiveness to others has to do with whether you two are right for each other. Have you told her you don't want what she wants? Will she be ok with what you want without being resentful?

The other posters above are also right.

I have told her that I don't want a financial dependent. She accepts that. After telling her that, she worked harder to make more money and be independent. She recently worked very hard and saved up for an amazing international trip with me. She is proud. She is going to go back to school in a few months. In the end, I think that she will be happier by providing for herself.

I started this thread to learn whether the D/S part of our relationship is going to end when she is on her feet financially.

 

[hooterbif]

How much time have the two of you spent talking about what you both want your relationship to look like? I don't think it matters so much what TPE or 24/7 means to the world at large, but what it means to you two and how it relates to what you want your daily lives and dynamic to be. If you agree on the big stuff, you can probably have a happy relationship. If you can't agree on the big stuff, you're probably just incompatible with each other. The only way to know is to have some thorough, honest conversations and go from there.

We have talked about this, even early on. We are mostly living as people who are individually financially independent. I started this thread to learn how other people separate D/S from financial dependence.

 

[hooterbif]

Is this the same little girl from your other post?

I'm gonna be blunt. This sounds just... off. Why do you think her being your financial dependent is buying the experience? It's a relationship. So she gets up at the crack 'o dawn, works 7 hours, makes you dinner, then takes a long bath just to be cleaned up for you?

Ummmm... what's she getting from you, other than you telling her what to wear?

Edited - I just reread some of your posts. This is the same girl who questions your Domliness because of the second girl you brought in??

Wow.

The 2nd girl I brought in? My girl likes girls. She made that perfectly clear when we started our relationship. Not only does she want to be with other girls, but she wants me to do all the leg work to find the other girls. Yep, I spend time doing that. If she doesn't want me touching the other girl, that is fine by me. However, she often simply demands me to fuck the other girl.

Telling her what to wear? Wow. I spend considerable time trying to respond to her requests to tell her what to wear. Honestly, I can't even keep track of all the outfits she has and the lingerie she has.

I don't tell her to get up at the crack of dawn. I think that she is crazy that she has made a choice to have a job like that, but that is not any of my business. I don't tell her to make dinner. In fact, I have become so incredibly lax in responding to her requests for what I want for dinner that she hasn't made dinner in months. That is perfectly fine by me. (I love to cook, also).

Tell her to take a bath? Hahahahaha. You know, if I come home from work and do not immediately rip her slutty dress off from her freshly-bathed body and fuck her while drinking my drink (that I didn't ask for), she gets sad. Very very very very sad.

It's so funny for people to read a few sentences of my story and think that I (as the man) am running the show.

 

[MeekMe]

Honestly dude, it sounds like you're in the wrong relationship. Every post you make seems unhappy with your relationship and when people give you advice you're a complete twat about it. You don't seem to want the same things as her, you kinks don't really match up, you're supposed to be the d-type in the relationship and what you've just said here says exactly the opposite of that. If this is such a chore for you move the fuck on and let her find the micromanaging dude of her dreams. You don't seem to be it. How miserable for you both.

You're also a sexiest, cheap ass and you've insulted people that actually DO stay home and work hard for their significant other.

 

[Miles Long]

Constant requests for picking out wardrobe and meals can get tedious, and I say this as a guy whose main kinks revolve around power and control. I love choosing clothes for a woman to wear. I love getting to have whatever I want for dinner because I chose it. But a constant stream of texts asking me to choose things? That gets old fast. But with a bit of pre-planning you guys can easily work around that. Have her lay out three different outfits and then all you have to do is say A, B, or C. Or pick a main item of clothing and tell her to build an outfit around that item. Change it up and do themes. One week it's all about telling her what color underwear to put on. The next week it's all about skirts. Sharks get their own fucking week, why not skirts?

Plan out some meal guidelines at the beginning of the week and then it's already decided. She has your structure and orders, and you're not sitting there getting constant requests all day.

I don't know, I'm just spitballing here. Seems if you put in some structure to the activity it should cut down on the messages throughout the day that bother you.

 

[Farawyn]

It doesn't sound like you two are very compatible. I'm not sure what her attractiveness to others has to do with whether you two are right for each other. Have you told her you don't want what she wants? Will she be ok with what you want without being resentful?

The other posters above are also right.

Yes. You are all right. I can't just keep saying Yes, this! to every post.
But yes, this. Keep it going.

 

[Miles Long]

Honestly dude, it sounds like you're in the wrong relationship. Every post you make seems unhappy with your relationship and when people give you advice you're a complete twat about it. You don't seem to want the same things as her, you kinks don't really match up, you're supposed to be the d-type in the relationship and what you've just said here says exactly the opposite of that. If this is such a chore for you move the fuck on and let her find the micromanaging dude of her dreams. You don't seem to be it. How miserable for you both.

You're also a sexiest, cheap ass and you've insulted people that actually DO stay home and work hard for their significant other.

hooterbif, your writing tone does give off the impression MeekMe describes above. It might not be how you actually are or feel, but it is hard not to interpret your words that way. Something you might want to think about.

In any event, it sounds like financial independence is an extremely important quality in a partner for you. If she understands that and embraces it, then you two have a chance. If not, probably better to end things and look for other people.

Does she have a Lit account? It would be interesting to get her take on things.

 

[hooterbif]

hooterbif, your writing tone does give off the impression MeekMe describes above. It might not be how you actually are or feel, but it is hard not to interpret your words that way. Something you might want to think about.

I appreciate that. I have to say that it is frustrating for me to deal with women who claim that they wank equality in the world, but really really really don't.

In any event, it sounds like financial independence is an extremely important quality in a partner for you. If she understands that and embraces it, then you two have a chance. If not, probably better to end things and look for other people.

She does understand it. Also, I haven't told you all why I am careful about finances, but let me just say that I have financial obligations to take care of other people. This requires me to not take on additional dependents. I simply cannot afford it. She understands it. From the responses here, I can see that it IS possible to have a D/S relationship between independent adults.

Does she have a Lit account? It would be interesting to get her take on things.

I wish that she would engage a community like this one. I can mention it to her, but I know that she just gets bored quickly with things like this. Case in point, she didn't engage with FetLife for more than one day. (She wants me to arrange for us to have public sex in some upcoming kink events through FL, but again I am doing the legwork to make that happen....)

 

[hooterbif]

Constant requests for picking out wardrobe and meals can get tedious, and I say this as a guy whose main kinks revolve around power and control. I love choosing clothes for a woman to wear. I love getting to have whatever I want for dinner because I chose it. But a constant stream of texts asking me to choose things? That gets old fast. But with a bit of pre-planning you guys can easily work around that. Have her lay out three different outfits and then all you have to do is say A, B, or C. Or pick a main item of clothing and tell her to build an outfit around that item. Change it up and do themes. One week it's all about telling her what color underwear to put on. The next week it's all about skirts. Sharks get their own fucking week, why not skirts?

Plan out some meal guidelines at the beginning of the week and then it's already decided. She has your structure and orders, and you're not sitting there getting constant requests all day.

I don't know, I'm just spitballing here. Seems if you put in some structure to the activity it should cut down on the messages throughout the day that bother you.

Sure, these are great ideas.

While it might seem like I am complaining, I am simply describing the situation. She has become resigned to the notion that I won't be picking out EVERYTHING every day. So, in that regard, our relationship is a "9" instead of a "10" on those days. This isn't a tragedy.

 

[hooterbif]

Yes. You are all right. I can't just keep saying Yes, this! to every post.
But yes, this. Keep it going.

Yes, we have talked about it. Our "mismatch" means that she has sadness when she isn't being told what to do all the time, but she snaps out of it with a hard slap on the ass.

 

[Setanta84]

I'm getting the feeling the is the D version of the threads some subs who are mentally or actually in their late teens make that everyone hates. I may be off here but the bitching combined with how he's treated people engaging the thread on its own terms makes it seem like the bitching is just bragging under a very thin veil. "A girl who can stop traffic waits on me hand and foot and wants to be utterly dependent on me. Oh, woe is me."

If, on the other hand, the OP is engaging honestly here and just also exhibiting anti-social tendencies/social incompetence, I'm going to reiterate the earlier advice to just leave the relationship.

Incompatibility doesn't get better or even stagnate over time--it gets worse. This is especially true when there is emotional intimacy in the D/s relationship, which i don't get is true here.

With me, I was in a relationship with a woman who described herself as a "bratty" sub and very much in love with her. And she was sort of the opposite of the woman in your experience in that she found ANY kind of dependence on another person threatening--or claimed to, that's another story.

And pretty much from Jump St., I knew we were incompatible. "Bratty," as it turns out, was her way of saying "I'm emotionally volatile, passive-aggressive, verbally and emotionally abusive, my emotional development arrested around age 12, 'compromise' is the dirtiest word in the English language in my mind, and my only loyalty is to myself." But I spent a year trying to make it work because I loved her, she was attractive and interesting, and I honestly thought a lot of her problems were symptoms of an undiagnosed mental illness and it would be shitty to dump her because of them.

Staying in that relationship was not healthy and the way it ultimately ended damaged me in ways I am still having to deal with today, nearly three years later.

So, trust me, if you honestly see her as wanting things you just have no interest in providing or vice versa--run, don't walk, away.

 

[hooterbif]

You're also a sexiest, cheap ass and you've insulted people that actually DO stay home and work hard for their significant other.

I started this thread by saying that I wanted to be in a relationship between adults who are financially independent. This is a hallmark of modern equality (and feminism). It is the OPPOSITE of sexist.

Sexist is to assume that the male has the burden of being the financial provider.

 

[hooterbif]

"A girl who can stop traffic waits on me hand and foot and wants to be utterly dependent on me."

This is meant to indicate that she is used to getting what she wants.

As for "bragging," believe me, she is not waiting on me hand and foot because of who I am. She is waiting on me hand and foot because of who she is. She craves it.

 

[Miles Long]

I appreciate that. I have to say that it is frustrating for me to deal with women who claim that they wank equality in the world, but really really really don't.

If it makes you feel any better, hooterbif, the frustration you feel, as annoying and, well, frustrating as it is, probably pales in comparison to the frustrations women have felt and still feel in trying to achieve equality in the world. So at least you've got that.