Submissive frenzy

[LucyBee01]

Just learnt that this is a thing on another thread, googled it, and found what I think is a helpful article on it:
https://kinkylittlegirl.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/sub-frenzy/

I can certainly identify that I went through this when I first discovered D/s and almost did a really stupid thing of meeting a Dom in private _at his house_ just like that. I didn't know any kinky people then. Some tiny part of my brain got me to ring a counsellor who helped me think straight and decide not to go and I felt so stupid for almost doing it but also still so desperate. I wanted to try _everything_ and right now.

My question is, have you experienced it? How did you manage? I am fascinated that experienced submissives may get it too - has anyone done as the article suggests and found a friendly top or Dom to help take the 'edge'off?

 

[kinkyprincess18]

New to the BDSM lifestyle

Inexperienced babygirl looking for an online Mistress/SD to teach me how to be a good little princess.

 

[LucyBee01]

I guess I've never been enough into the lifestyle to be acquainted with any "friendly Doms" whom I might remotely trust to such a degree....

But then something about that whole scenario stinks.

On one hand, maybe with the added lens of BDSM roles a greater level of detachment is more acceptable occasionally... pro-Doms and pro-Subs are not strictly prostitutes. On the other hand; it looks too much like settling for a Dom you've already relegated to the friend zone and graduating them to a fuck buddy.

I don't think I would expect that to turn out well.

Also... I dont think with the genders reversed it's likely to even be plausible.

It's very difficult for submissive men to find any Dommes remotely accepting of new applicants, friendly & detached or not.

I did briefly turn to roleplaying (here) as a possible outlet. Did not work so well for a variety of reasons.

I can imagine, if I was unattached, asking say a sadist I already know well to flog me at a public play event as it would give me relief as a masochist and might be satisfying for them.

Anything sexual, well, I see the dangers. Even where boundaries are set, feelings don't necessarily stick to those boundaries.

 

[LucyBee01]

I first found that addiction in a strictly temporary relationship cut off by a long distance move. I barely got a taste, but it was sooo intoxicating.

I chased that dragon hard, though... ineffectually, and unsuccessfully. I did for a time have Mistresses and did get my "subspace" fix quite a number of times, but never quite got... a scene? The scene I wanted? Basically, as far as the kinky sex went; I only got one more taste.

I've recently come to discover that a major part of my "fix" was an addiction to an Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response, and while I used to have them triggered in negative ways regularly (as part of a depression spiral), D/s would trigger it in a (hopefully) more positive way that I associated at the time with "subspace". It was both a mental trip and a physical experience, a wave of sensation that washed down me, often leaving me feel like I was physically shrinking.

And holy shit I couldn't get enough even had I gotten enough.

Thanks for sharing and interested to hear how ASMR featured in you wanting a 'fix'. I am not familiar with ASMR, but think I saw a thread about it somewhere, so now feel compelled to read that

I think I partly wanted to just raise awareness of frenzy because when I first started reading stuff about D/s, whilst I stumbled across lots of helpful stuff, I don't remember ever coming across this term. There were general warnings about throwing caution to the wind, but I think I would have found it helpful to have been aware that my head could have become so like someone seeking their next fix. I didn't realise how potentially dangerous it was and how vulnerable I was.

 

[MeekMe]

My question is, have you experienced it? How did you manage? I am fascinated that experienced submissives may get it too - has anyone done as the article suggests and found a friendly top or Dom to help take the 'edge'off?

I have experienced it to a small degree. I had to recognize my own behavior and help me. What the article suggests seems like the worst advice to me. You need to scratch that so find a temporary placeholder until you have your senses about you? Uhhh... ;? This could just put a s-type right into the middle of a bad situation.

In my case, I got a little wake up call from people here. I had to look at myself and tell myself to slow down and learn what I was feeling and how I could help me. What are my needs/wants? Will I die if I don't have those met right now? No? Ok, breath and take it one step at a time.

Many Dominant’s (experienced ones) will be willing to assist or aide their friend knowing that keeping the submissives edges down will allow that submissive to retain the majority of their rational functions while they are seeking their next mate. This action ‘reduces’ the submissives vulnerability.

This article relies heavily on the Good Samaritan d-type just hanging around to take responsibility for the senseless s-type. It seems like a dangerous game for a d-type to assume they can recognize and 'help' someone that may not be thinking clearly. Submissive people do not suddenly stop being responsible for themselves.

The sensations piggyback, by this I mean that the submissive upon discovering the community and all the excitement and feelings surrounding ‘finding their home’, may easily pile on their ‘desire’ for completion and pounce on the first candidate that comes along as being ‘the one’. They invest everything, believe everything and leap at the opportunity. Too often they discover they have grabbed at a tin ring instead of a brass one, they have some sort of nasty or unpleasant experience and step back trying to discover what is wrong in their new world.

This, in my opinion, has more to do with all the fluff floating around. When new people make the BDSM discovery, they often come across the memes and the poetry and the tumblr posts describing the perfect union that is d/s. They get bombarded with the idea that PYLs are these superheroes of justice wanting their pyl to grow and flourish under their protection. All that stuff leaves out the human factor and the part where people are all different and BDSM doesn't make someone smarter or more honest. But the marketing for BDSM sure does make it look like we're all more accepting, honest, safety conscious and selfless.

I think this article is continuing to perpetuate the idea that pyls can dump their responsibility to themselves as soon as the nearest PYL steps in to "save" them.

 

[Mindfondler]

Just learnt that this is a thing on another thread, googled it, and found what I think is a helpful article on it:
https://kinkylittlegirl.wordpress.com/2009/12/24/sub-frenzy/

Thanks! I found that to be an informative and instructive read — albeit with the wise caveats that others have added above.

I was surprised by the implication in the penultimate paragraph that, when a Dom/PYL recognises the particular symptoms of "sub frenzy", they need to pay special attention to asking the sub/pyl what they want, and to discourage the sub/pyl from using honorific titles until they have been earned by the Dom/PYL. I'd regard that as essential behaviour from a Dom/PYL at any formative time in a relationship.

My question is, have you experienced it? How did you manage? I am fascinated that experienced submissives may get it too - has anyone done as the article suggests and found a friendly top or Dom to help take the 'edge'off?

I've experienced it with my wife when I introduced her to BDSM. She openly admits now that, for several weeks, she behaved like a little girl in a sweet shop [candy store!], wanting to try out for herself as soon as possible every kinky experience that she heard about or witnessed. Having taken the cork out of the bottle, I realised to my simultaneous delight and horror that there was no way that I could get the genie back inside!

In our case, it wasn't too difficult to manage, as my wife and I know each other very well. With patience, we were able to help each other to navigate through my wife's unfamiliar mood swings and cravings. Crucially, we were able to draw on the advice and listening ears of wise and experienced friends that we had made in our local kink community, who had seen it all before! We didn't go to the extent of enlisting additional PYLs to help "take the edge off", although I would have been open to the option if it had been suggested to me.
.

 

[Blue]

~~~~~

 

[_Necrosomantic_]

My question is, have you experienced it? How did you manage? I am fascinated that experienced submissives may get it too - has anyone done as the article suggests and found a friendly top or Dom to help take the 'edge'off?

Most people would be excited by the prospect of exploring a new aspect of themselves they've just discovered. Add to that, a particular personality type, a dash of desperation, liberal amounts of both naiveté as well as novelty, and the end result is what you are referring to. I'm sure everyone has felt this in some capacity at one point or another. None of us are immune to being overwhelmed by our desires from time to time, regardless of what we identify ourselves as.

It's heartbreaking because, the creeps and shitbag manipulators show up en masse the second there is a hint of this, and it has ruined a LOT of first time/early experiences. Yes, I had a few " friends " that I played with in the past, though that was as much for their own good as it was an outlet for my own personal demons, I'm no saint.

 

[LucyBee01]

Thanks! I found that to be an informative and read — albeit with the wise caveats that others have added above.

I was surprised by the implication in the penultimate paragraph that, when a Dom/PYL recognises the particular symptoms of "sub frenzy", they need to pay special attention to asking the sub/pyl what they want, and to discourage the sub/pyl from using honorific titles until they have been earned by the Dom/PYL. I'd regard that as essential behaviour from a Dom/PYL at any formative time in a relationship.

I am sure there will be PYLs who wouldn't instinctively do this, but if told this is helpful behaviour for both the PYL and sub, would adopt

I've experienced it with my wife when I introduced her to BDSM. She openly admits now that, for several weeks, she behaved like a little girl in a sweet shop [candy store!], wanting to try out for herself as soon as possible every kinky experience that she heard about or witnessed. Having taken the cork out of the bottle, I realised to my simultaneous delight and horror that there was no way that I could get the genie back inside!

In our case, it wasn't too difficult to manage, as my wife and I know each other very well. With patience, we were able to help each other to navigate through my wife's unfamiliar mood swings and cravings. Crucially, we were able to draw on the advice and listening ears of wise and experienced friends that we had made in our local kink community, who had seen it all before! We didn't go to the extent of enlisting additional PYLs to help "take the edge off", although I would have been open to the option if it had been suggested to me.
.

I am really glad you and your wife had support when she first found the sweet shop. I can relate to those feelings and thinking 'No going back now!'

 

[cascadiabound]

Sweet shop indeed...

These days as I see newbie subs come onto Lit, I am among those who provide the cautions against overly agrressive Doms and posers. As a newbie myself, I would have been wise to believe that such advice applied to me and take it to heart. I think I thought I was smarter, older, wiser. Not likely to get taken advantage of. But I was so naive to the on line world and so inundated. And my sub nature was so eager to find a home, make a path, figure it out…so much so that I was incautious. Or at least too compliant. Too trusting. Unable to see the classic warning signs right in front of me.

And like so many other new Lit users, I turned on my PM’s – and was instantly visible. The way I identified myself was catnip to a certain kind of man. More men than I knew actually. My in-box filled up rather quickly. I had not expected that. I had thought I could just be an observer for awhile. Maybe make a foray into the boards. Decide who I wanted to talk to. And I am polite. So, it was hard for me to not respond to PM’s. And I was not sophisticated enough to figure out who was looking for wank fodder and who was interested in me. They all felt interested in me. Hell – I had not had someone who felt interested in me, though he was sitting across the couch from me for a decade. These guys made me feel special. And beautiful. And desirable. And it was SO EASY for them to push my sub buttons. I am a bit of a pleaser by nature any way. I didn’t have any rules for myself about how I was going to interact on lit, because I had not planned to interact on lit. I had a basic rule…No one was going to know my name, exactly where I lived, where I worked. Otherwise – well – see where it goes. It felt like a safe enough way to figure some things out. To learn more about what I need and who I am. To get clearer about that. And to use that knowledge to enhance my marriage. I had never heard of or thought about “on-line Dom” stuff – but it seemed intriguing. And so I just slipped down the rabbit hole… with one justification after another. It feels so naive. So foolish and perhaps even ridiculous in hindsight. And yes…in hindsight, a certain amount of sub frenzy. Ugh.

But finding someone in RL to take the edge off? - no. definitely no.

 

[Blue]

_____

 

[MastersDelight]

as pheobe on Friends said...

When I discovered my subbie me I was "like Santa Claus, on Prozac, in Vegas, getting laid."

It was new and exciting and I had words and definitions to put to what I was feeling and wanted and I wanted more, more MORE.

Lucky for me I was married to someone who was much more level headed and saw the possibility for real danger and damage in what we wanted to explore. Where I usually dive into something head first with wild abandon, he ties a rope to himself and something stable in case he has to pull is both back up.

Had I been with someone less cautious I probably would have gotten hurt or gotten myself into an unsafe situation.

That being said, from what i understand, sub frenzy is playing too often, where recovery isn't completely accomplished between scenes. And also trying to go and do EVERYTHING without resting and allowing time to process. Like going to munch after munch after munch for days, or play parties, or classes, or some combination of those. Anything that gets you high and excited and gets those sub chemicals pumping is taxing, and can cause drop when they disappear.

For me and Master, a large part of recovery and after care is talking and processing. What we felt when....I liked that....I wasn't sure about.... Did that make you feel.... What should i do next time..... That position/toy/area/ did/didn't.....etc. For DAYS. Because I'm usually fuzzy in a scene, things come back slowly. Until we feel like we've recovered from a scene and everything that there was to say and discuss has been said and discussed we take it easy. Not to mention, depending on your level of play, after care can take a number of days as well. My average after something intense is usually 3-5 days before I'm 100% again.

Frenzy is frustrating, it's agitating and I'm sure I've lashed out about it before. But Master reminds me that we have all the time in the world to try things. Just because we had an opportunity and we didn't take it, doesn't mean we won't have that opportunity again.

If you use your head and find a good mentor, either a sub or a Dom, you can lean, vent, and get a better understanding of the community. Bit I think you'd be hard pressed to find an actual mentor and not someone looking to snatch up vulnerable fresh meat.

 

[Mindfondler]

If you use your head and find a good mentor, either a sub or a Dom, you can lean, vent, and get a better understanding of the community. Bit I think you'd be hard pressed to find an actual mentor and not someone looking to snatch up vulnerable fresh meat.

I'd love to act as a mentor of that type (and without wielding meat hooks). Realistically, though, I don't yet have enough experience of conditions such as sub frenzy and sub drop (also the corresponding PYL versions, which are also a thing, albeit lesser known) to be much practical value to anyone.

The best perspective that I can offer is that I know that I don't know enough (and I wouldn't pretend otherwise) and I'm connected to some good, wise and experienced real-life kinksters who do have a good understanding of such issues. I guess that at least qualifies me as a "helper".
.

 

[MastersDelight]

I'd love to act as a mentor of that type (and without wielding meat hooks). Realistically, though, I don't yet have enough experience of conditions such as sub frenzy and sub drop (also the corresponding PYL versions, which are also a thing, albeit lesser known) to be much practical value to anyone.

The best perspective that I can offer is that I know that I don't know enough (and I wouldn't pretend otherwise) and I'm connected to some good, wise and experienced real-life kinksters who do have a good understanding of such issues. I guess that at least qualifies me as a "helper".
.

Being able to point someone in the direction of someone who can answer their questions is a GREAT help. And sometimes just being a good listener and guide where you feel you can offer some advice is mentoring in my book. But hey, I'm new, what do I know.

 

[LucyBee01]

When I discovered my subbie me I was "like Santa Claus, on Prozac, in Vegas, getting laid."

It was new and exciting and I had words and definitions to put to what I was feeling and wanted and I wanted more, more MORE.

Phoebe has it nailed
Yes, I wanted MORE and NOW and it felt overwhelming, a bit scary, but ssoooo exciting. Dangerous, but I didn't want to think about that.

being said, from what i understand, sub frenzy is playing too often, where recovery isn't completely accomplished between scenes. And also trying to go and do EVERYTHING without resting and allowing time to process. Like going to munch after munch after munch for days, or play parties, or classes, or some combination of those. Anything that gets you high and excited and gets those sub chemicals pumping is taxing, and can cause drop when they disappear.

Oh that's interesting, I hadn't thought about it as that sort of possibility of playing too often and not coming down each time. Will ponder that.

Frenzy is frustrating, it's agitating and I'm sure I've lashed out about it before. But Master reminds me that we have all the time in the world to try things. Just because we had an opportunity and we didn't take it, doesn't mean we won't have that opportunity again.

If you use your head and find a good mentor, either a sub or a Dom, you can lean, vent, and get a better understanding of the community. Bit I think you'd be hard pressed to find an actual mentor and not someone looking to snatch up vulnerable fresh meat.

Yes, I get frustrated and upset if I feel we have missed something exciting, very glad to now be with Master to remind me it isn't a race and there will be other fun times.

 

[LucyBee01]

I'd love to act as a mentor of that type (and without wielding meat hooks). Realistically, though, I don't yet have enough experience of conditions such as sub frenzy and sub drop (also the corresponding PYL versions, which are also a thing, albeit lesser known) to be much practical value to anyone.

The best perspective that I can offer is that I know that I don't know enough (and I wouldn't pretend otherwise) and I'm connected to some good, wise and experienced real-life kinksters who do have a good understanding of such issues. I guess that at least qualifies me as a "helper".
.

Hahaha, when MastersDelight mentioned mentor without another agenda, I thought of you I think as long as you don't hold yourself out as an expert on something you aren't (not that you ever would), you have lots to offer, having learnt and experienced and reflected a lot in a short time.

 

[SpunThings]

When I discovered my subbie me I was "like Santa Claus, on Prozac, in Vegas, getting laid."

It was new and exciting and I had words and definitions to put to what I was feeling and wanted and I wanted more, more MORE.

Lucky for me I was married to someone who was much more level headed and saw the possibility for real danger and damage in what we wanted to explore. Where I usually dive into something head first with wild abandon, he ties a rope to himself and something stable in case he has to pull is both back up.

Had I been with someone less cautious I probably would have gotten hurt or gotten myself into an unsafe situation.

That being said, from what i understand, sub frenzy is playing too often, where recovery isn't completely accomplished between scenes. And also trying to go and do EVERYTHING without resting and allowing time to process. Like going to munch after munch after munch for days, or play parties, or classes, or some combination of those. Anything that gets you high and excited and gets those sub chemicals pumping is taxing, and can cause drop when they disappear.

For me and Master, a large part of recovery and after care is talking and processing. What we felt when....I liked that....I wasn't sure about.... Did that make you feel.... What should i do next time..... That position/toy/area/ did/didn't.....etc. For DAYS. Because I'm usually fuzzy in a scene, things come back slowly. Until we feel like we've recovered from a scene and everything that there was to say and discuss has been said and discussed we take it easy. Not to mention, depending on your level of play, after care can take a number of days as well. My average after something intense is usually 3-5 days before I'm 100% again.

Frenzy is frustrating, it's agitating and I'm sure I've lashed out about it before. But Master reminds me that we have all the time in the world to try things. Just because we had an opportunity and we didn't take it, doesn't mean we won't have that opportunity again.

If you use your head and find a good mentor, either a sub or a Dom, you can lean, vent, and get a better understanding of the community. Bit I think you'd be hard pressed to find an actual mentor and not someone looking to snatch up vulnerable fresh meat.

I think sub frenzy is even more broad than that. It's letting the excitement of this new thing cloud your judgement. It's playing with people who you might be more wary of if you were thinking straight. It's participating in activities without thinking about the consequences or safety implications. That could be physical safety, or privacy safety online.

 

[cookiecat]

Mentoring is a great idea, whether online or face to face. Making it happen takes some doing because as a new submissive, it's difficult to ask for help. Especially if you're venturing through this alone.

How does mentoring happen online? I was on a site that offered a Newbie question section. I think Fet offers an "Ask a Sub" and an "Ask a Dom" section - great ways to sort out some of those questions.

Another site offered a "Training" section that was great. New doms created tasks which were approved by moderators. New subs could pick through the tasks and once completed, would offer the dominant feedback on how it went, how it made them feel. It was a great way to experience stuff, get feedback, process feelings. It felt safe and thrilling at the same time.

Our kinky community here has a Newbie 101 munch. Mentoring is stressed at most of the munches. We have greeters at one of the munches who make a point of sitting new people with some of the more experienced members.

It does come down to personal accountability, though. If you're going crazy with all these chaotic feelings, it's on you to seek out a site like this and ask questions. Or just turn off the computer and wait a day to continue. In real time, go to munches and see who's been around for a while. Be brave enough to introduce yourself and ask questions.

 

[MeekMe]

I'm sure mentoring has worked for others, but I want to point out that I never had a "mentor" and I've never joined my local community. Those things are available, but not something you have to do. Beware of anyone that offers to be your mentor and expects you to "practice" with them.. Usually, a mentor is someone that is there to help answer questions and is more like a friend (hopefully they are a friend ). They are hopefully not looking to have sex with you, either.

I've seen a lot of offers to be "mentored" by men online that have no intention of being helpful.

"Mentor": Oh! I see you're new. Welcome, I'll gladly "train" you.

Me: uh..? Train me for what?

"Mentor": First rule! Don't ask questions. Now, you need to learn how to give blowjobs. I happen to have a penis for you to practice on.

These are dudes that like to "mentor" new women and the idea is that they are going to help train the women for their future d/s relationships. Basically, they want their dick sucked and they want it done NSA.

I had one guy offer to mentor me that was over twice my age with "undecided" on his profile.

I'm not saying everyone is out to prey on new people, but certainly don't think you need a mentor or even to go to local events if that makes you uncomfortable. If you do seek out a mentor, look for someone in a similar position to you. I personally think it's more beneficial to ask in groups where you can get different perspectives though.

Another thing: online scams are a thing. A common scam for male subs is to be contacted by a "mistress" who wants him to sign up on a pay site. Or she'll have him cam and then blackmail him with the recorded cam session. For female subs it's usually someone saying they want her to "train" (on cam ) with another master to be ready for when they start their d/s thing. She cams, the dude then uses the recorded cam session for profit.

I'm posting this because "frenzy" makes one more vulnerable to scams.

 

[clistenovena]

I'm posting this because "frenzy" makes one more vulnerable to scams.

This. All day. Well said.

 

[cookiecat]

I'm sure mentoring has worked for others, but I want to point out that I never had a "mentor" and I've never joined my local community. Those things are available, but not something you have to do. Beware of anyone that offers to be your mentor and expects you to "practice" with them.. Usually, a mentor is someone that is there to help answer questions and is more like a friend (hopefully they are a friend ). They are hopefully not looking to have sex with you, either.

I've seen a lot of offers to be "mentored" by men online that have no intention of being helpful.

"Mentor": Oh! I see you're new. Welcome, I'll gladly "train" you.

Me: uh..? Train me for what?

"Mentor": First rule! Don't ask questions. Now, you need to learn how to give blowjobs. I happen to have a penis for you to practice on.

These are dudes that like to "mentor" new women and the idea is that they are going to help train the women for their future d/s relationships. Basically, they want their dick sucked and they want it done NSA.

I had one guy offer to mentor me that was over twice my age with "undecided" on his profile.

I'm not saying everyone is out to prey on new people, but certainly don't think you need a mentor or even to go to local events if that makes you uncomfortable. If you do seek out a mentor, look for someone in a similar position to you. I personally think it's more beneficial to ask in groups where you can get different perspectives though.

Another thing: online scams are a thing. A common scam for male subs is to be contacted by a "mistress" who wants him to sign up on a pay site. Or she'll have him cam and then blackmail him with the recorded cam session. For female subs it's usually someone saying they want her to "train" (on cam ) with another master to be ready for when they start their d/s thing. She cams, the dude then uses the recorded cam session for profit.

I'm posting this because "frenzy" makes one more vulnerable to scams.

Oh for sure. I wasn't thinking everyone needs a mentor. I wasn't thinking everyone needs to join their local community. Lots of folks don't want to. It was just a suggestion off of the conversation taking place above my post.

Glad you reiterated this, Meek Me. Thank you.

 

[MastersDelight]

Oh for sure. I wasn't thinking everyone needs a mentor. I wasn't thinking everyone needs to join their local community. Lots of folks don't want to. It was just a suggestion off of the conversation taking place above my post.

Glad you reiterated this, Meek Me. Thank you.

Totally second this. It worked for us, doesn't work for everyone. We were online here for a long time before we even considered meeting the community.

 

[MeekMe]

Oh for sure. I wasn't thinking everyone needs a mentor. I wasn't thinking everyone needs to join their local community. Lots of folks don't want to. It was just a suggestion off of the conversation taking place above my post.

Glad you reiterated this, Meek Me. Thank you.

I've been thinking about posting this since the first mention of a mentor. It wasn't specifically any particular post that I was addressing. I merely wanted to give out a word of caution. A few times a month someone posts on fet about the mentor that tells them they aren't sucking dick well enough or the faceless dominant that wants them to pay money or jump on cam. Sadly, saying you're new or looking for a mentor is like drawing a big target on yourself. Couple the painted on bullseye with the desperation of wanting to do it all right now and you've just created the perfect scenario for the predator looking to pounce.

Just popping in to be my normal, negative, cautious self.

 

[cookiecat]

Cautious is always good. Doesn't always equate negative.

I started online 10 years ago and things have changed dramatically since then, especially in the realm of scams.

Just the number of "I'm new" posts here on Lit in the last couple weeks got me thinking about how an online community can shape a new person's experience.

 

[MastersDelight]

Yes, caution is important. And something a person can lack when frenzied. I'd never heard of those cam scams you mentioned. YIKES! That's scary!