James Ellroy On Writing

[NOIRTRASH]

http://www.fastcocreate.com/3035957/master-class/how-to-write-a-crime-novel-like-james-ellroy

My attitude about characters is different from most. I believe 95% of people are a slight improvement over cattle, and much less than the average dog. So maybe one or two of my characters are more human than animal.

Most people wanna be bred and fed and led.

 

[lovecraft68]

http://www.fastcocreate.com/3035957/master-class/how-to-write-a-crime-novel-like-james-ellroy

My attitude about characters is different from most. I believe 95% of people are a slight improvement over cattle, and much less than the average dog. So maybe one or two of my characters are more human than animal.

My wife says 90% of people are plant life, but that's being crude to plants, they serve a purpose. My contempt for humanity comes shining through in some of my serious pieces.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

My wife says 90% of people are plant life, but that's being crude to plants, they serve a purpose. My contempt for humanity comes shining through in some of my serious pieces.

I agree with your wife. So why waste time on most characters!

 

[SenorFuego]

My wife says 90% of people are plant life, but that's being crude to plants, they serve a purpose. My contempt for humanity comes shining through in some of my serious pieces.

Most people don't have the time or want to put their effort into you ... that's what friends are for ... how often do you want to be yourself and how often do you want to be left alone?

There is nothing wrong with people, it's only the expectation of another that is wrong.

 

[SenorFuego]

I agree with your wife. So why waste time on most characters!

Characters give your writing life ... you don't waste time on them, you only hope that people want to read more about them until they start reading about someone else.

 

[lovecraft68]

Most people don't have the time or want to put their effort into you ... that's what friends are for ... how often do you want to be yourself and how often do you want to be left alone?

There is nothing wrong with people, it's only the expectation of another that is wrong.

Not true, you can invest all you want in some people and come up to an empty well, some people are simply black hole takers.

This sums it up.

http://cparker15.tripod.com/tsb/airVII.html

 

[SenorFuego]

Not true, you can invest all you want in some people and come up to an empty well, some people are simply black hole takers.

This sums it up.

http://cparker15.tripod.com/tsb/airVII.html

That just comes down to expectation and a little bit of ego: "Why doesn't this person pay attention to me?"

If you have no faith in your fellow man, it's your fault, a generalization of what you perceive to be a world filled with bad intentions.

Your point of view is based on a whole without actually seeing a whole at their best (at their best meaning: their own life problems can be put aside).

Your faith in humanity is a very selfish perspective most likely shared by most people.

I'm not going to argue with you about it, or even say you are wrong, or say my way is the only way to see things .... it is what it is.

 

[lovecraft68]

it is what it is.

Exactly and I say that in a lot of instances, and maybe too quickly, but that's how I am.

 

[golfirlathuli]

Characters

Thanx for sharing your opinions - I appreciate hearing what others think. It's a bit of an issue for me and I've had some trouble fleshing out characters that aren't "nice."

I find it odd given that characters in books that appeal to me generally have some "dark" components.

Maybe I have this need for my characters to be likeable - I'm getting over it.

Who knows what personality characteristics will appeal to whom - maybe formulaic writers who just change the names and tickle the plotl ines. Given my experiences, people have essentially "unknowable" elements and you can have a detailed life history without identifying lcritical and "life-changing" events.

Someone once said something like, (don't know who or when), "The art of the writer of fiction is to make us care deeply about people who never even existed."

For me that's the aim - even if only a little.

Maybe that's what needs tio be intrinsic in characterisation, "They have aspects of me that means I can relate and understand their thoughts, feeling and actions even if it wasn't what I would do.

Sorry all - seems a bit "rambly."

Feel like I'm trying to explain it to myself as I write.

Thanks for the venue.

Stay safe & well All.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

http://www.fastcocreate.com/3035957/master-class/how-to-write-a-crime-novel-like-james-ellroy

My attitude about characters is different from most. I believe 95% of people are a slight improvement over cattle, and much less than the average dog. So maybe one or two of my characters are more human than animal.

Most people wanna be bred and fed and led.

Writing that's an exact mirror of reality is pointless - if I want to see reality I can look out of any window.

Writing, at its best, makes people think, and maybe rise above bred/fed/led. Even if only for a moment.

When I see someone say their writing is realistic or true to life, I generally wince. It doesn't take a lot of skill to look out a window and report on what you see. If you can't dig a little meaning out of your observations, then you're wasting your time.

Of course, saying it on an erotica site, which is largely about unsuccessful breeding and doesn't worry too much about what it all means, is a bit pointless.

I'm not too fond of the "people are no better than sheep" argument. We slaughter sheep. If you don't give weight to a person's existence simply because they're human, there's suddenly no reason not to kill them and take their stuff, and there's more than enough of that going on in the world.

The argument "most people are no better than sheep" is if anything worse. You think you get to decide who's human and who's not? Based on what criteria? Even if you could articulate it, do you think you'd apply it consistently? The only people in history who seemed to have done that well are Nazis. History hasn't thanked them for their sweeping and even-handed application of their values.

In the end, judging others and evaluating their worth is an exercise in tribalism, a raw fear of otherness. Get over it.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Writing that's an exact mirror of reality is pointless - if I want to see reality I can look out of any window.

Writing, at its best, makes people think, and maybe rise above bred/fed/led. Even if only for a moment.

When I see someone say their writing is realistic or true to life, I generally wince. It doesn't take a lot of skill to look out a window and report on what you see. If you can't dig a little meaning out of your observations, then you're wasting your time.

Of course, saying it on an erotica site, which is largely about unsuccessful breeding and doesn't worry too much about what it all means, is a bit pointless.

I'm not too fond of the "people are no better than sheep" argument. We slaughter sheep. If you don't give weight to a person's existence simply because they're human, there's suddenly no reason not to kill them and take their stuff, and there's more than enough of that going on in the world.

The argument "most people are no better than sheep" is if anything worse. You think you get to decide who's human and who's not? Based on what criteria? Even if you could articulate it, do you think you'd apply it consistently? The only people in history who seemed to have done that well are Nazis. History hasn't thanked them for their sweeping and even-handed application of their values.

In the end, judging others and evaluating their worth is an exercise in tribalism, a raw fear of otherness. Get over it.

LADYVER makes me or else I get no more of her cock pix.

 

[LadyVer]

LADYVER makes me or else I get no more of her cock pix.

Get a fucking life, JBJ. Besides, I only send pics to men who aren't racist misogynist assholes. Anyway, I don't know too many men who would appreciate a 62 year old woman's body, even though she's 5'8", 140 pounds. And I'm no longer a 38c. Just a 36b. And I no longer have short blonde hair. Shoulder length gray, but considering going all white.

 

[Ewobbit]

~snip~ I don't know too many men who would appreciate a 62 year old woman's body, even though she's 5'8", 140 pounds. And I'm no longer a 38c. Just a 36b. And I no longer have short blonde hair. Shoulder length gray, but considering going all white.

Stop trying to turn me on, damn it. What were we talking about again? Oh, right. Characters.

What I know about writing, an angel could dance around on the head of a pin. I keep hoping one day I might figure it out at least good enough for Joss Whedon to be one of my fan boys. But, I figure time will probably run out on me before then.

In the meantime, though, I do know what I like to read. And for me, the characters are a big part of it. It doesn't matter if I love 'em or hate 'em. If I'm indifferent to them, then I won't really give a shit about what happens to 'em. If I love them, I will and if I hate them, I keep listening hoping they'll fail miserably.

But... and I have no idea if this is a quote or some amalgam of some things people have said or what. But, I think it's only by dragging them through the shit by their hair that we find out who our characters are.

When I try to flesh out a character, I try to give them enough confusion to make them seem real and enough darkness and light in their soul to make me wonder which side of the coin they'll fall on.

Then, I tie a bone around their neck and throw them in the dog pit to see if they are worth figuring it out.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Get a fucking life, JBJ. Besides, I only send pics to men who aren't racist misogynist assholes. Anyway, I don't know too many men who would appreciate a 62 year old woman's body, even though she's 5'8", 140 pounds. And I'm no longer a 38c. Just a 36b. And I no longer have short blonde hair. Shoulder length gray, but considering going all white.

Yummo.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Bottom line: Characters and stories should be interesting.