Non-Consent/Reluctance Rules

[ForeverLaughing]

Hey! Got another question about the rules here. So, as I understand it, Lit doesn't allow out and out rape, but there's a whole category for... sort of rape? I'm really confused about what exactly is permissible and what isn't. Specifically, I want to write a scene where a guy and girl are making out and fondling each other, but when the guy tries to (literally) get in her pants, she says no, but he goes ahead anyway. Is that ok? If not, how would I make it ok?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Handley_Page]

Hey! Got another question about the rules here. So, as I understand it, Lit doesn't allow out and out rape, but there's a whole category for... sort of rape? I'm really confused about what exactly is permissible and what isn't. Specifically, I want to write a scene where a guy and girl are making out and fondling each other, but when the guy tries to (literally) get in her pants, she says no, but he goes ahead anyway. Is that ok? If not, how would I make it ok?

Thank you in advance.

Read some non-consent stories first.
Then read the Rules.

 

[ForeverLaughing]

Read some non-consent stories first.
Then read the Rules.

I'll ignore the latent hostility and uselessness of your answer.

I can't find the rules, and it's better to get a specific answer to a specific question than to try to infer one. So unless you want to send me a link to the rule book or answer the question, it's time for you to leave.

 

[Handley_Page]

I'll ignore the latent hostility and uselessness of your answer.

I can't find the rules, and it's better to get a specific answer to a specific question than to try to infer one. So unless you want to send me a link to the rule book or answer the question, it's time for you to leave.

If your question was a genuine one, I'll apologise for the brevity.
However, we've lately had some 'wind-up' questions set out to deliberately disturb.

As is usual with the subject, it's very difficult to be precise.
A deliberate Rape is simply not on.
[There are some who claim non-consent is, de facto, rape.
And then there are those who maintain that Authors should not feature rape as it is high on the no-no list of the Courts.].

 

[Serafina1210]

My sense is that rape as it happens in the real world won't do at all. That is, a man forces himself on a woman, and she regards it during and afterwards as a violent crime committed against her.

A fantasy rape, in which she, say, decides during the act that she really likes it, or she falls in love with her rapist, or she proves to have set it up herself--those are fine.

I experimented with a story in which a woman knew exactly what was going to happen and could have escaped but for complicated reasons chose not to--and then didn't enjoy it. That turned out to be fine too.

 

[lovecraft68]

Read some non-consent stories first.
Then read the Rules.

If they read some consent stories they will realize there are no rules, none that are enforced anyway.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'll ignore the latent hostility and uselessness of your answer.

I can't find the rules, and it's better to get a specific answer to a specific question than to try to infer one. So unless you want to send me a link to the rule book or answer the question, it's time for you to leave.

There is a rule listed in two places here. The first can be found in the FAQ under reasons for rejection. It leads to a post by a member here listing all the reasons a story can be rejected and rape is mentioned at the bottom.

Lit has a rule the 'victim' has to enjoy it at some point. So what you're supposed to do is write a scene that appears to be a rape then find out its a role play, a movie, a dream, it was staged...

Or have the woman do a ridiculous and totally implausible 360 where she is being raped and abused one second and suddenly likes it in the next sentence.

But there is a sticky in story ideas-btw the way the mod there personally is a fan of rape fantasies so no surprise that's where it was placed- that says its a slippery slope and if it fits the tone of the story it can be allowed.

So hmm....if rape is okay if it fits the tone of the story, then what is the tone of any non consent story? Rape of course so wouldn't that mean its allowed? Now I know the site defenders would say 'well she means if its an actual story and the rape serves to define a character, further a plot and is not the focal point it could be allowed.

Personally despite my feelings of loathing on the topic, I could see it in those regards. However, a trip through the NC section tells you otherwise.

Its as simple as if the site was series about not wanting rape stories it would eliminate the non consensual section because people come here, see it and think its fine to write them and who could blame them? Non consent=rape.

The 'rule' here is described as 'gray'. In reality it is a CYA farce that enables the site to reject a story they personally may feel is too far or hit them the wrong way, but most are fine.

A competing site has a rule, no rape. There is no non con section there. I believe they have rough consensual sex, they may have reluctance, I'm not sure been awhile since I looked, but point is they say no rape and mean it.

That's not the case here.

And fact is even if you follow the rule and the victim likes it or it was a role play what you still have is real rape being described through 90% of the story, then a couple of paragraphs that pretty much say "no woman was really harmed during the writing of this story"

But fact is, what did the reader get off too? He got off to the rape portion and they don't give a damn if the author does trick ending or not, they got to read about a woman being raped.

Its like reading a story where a guy has crazy hardcore sex with his mother, then at the end wakes up and realizes it was a dream and saying...

This story contained no incest.

Doublespeak at its finest.

 

[Hypoxia]

>>This message is hidden because lovecraft68 is on your ignore list.
Whatever.

I can't find the rules, and it's better to get a specific answer to a specific question than to try to infer one.

The rules are in a sticky atop the Story Ideas forum. Laurel says,

As far as sexualized violence for non-plot-motivation reasons goes - some women (and men) enjoy reading about rough, sometimes even degrading sex. My guideline generally is that if I feel a reader with that kink could enjoy placing themselves as the recipient of the sexual roughness, then it's postable. If it's a fantasy written as an aggressor-fantasy with no regard for the recipient, then I may send it back to the author, who can then send it back to me with reasons why I'm wrong - and they're sometimes right.

For a definitive answer, submit the story and see how Laurel reacts.

 

[sr71plt]

I think the advice to read some of the stories in Non-Consent here was the best advice. It will show you what has been accepted before. Apparently, if you depict the one not consenting as being happy with it in the end, you'll be all right here.

Usually, when I write in this realm I would have already established the want for being taken before it happens and then the relief it happened at the end and the story goes through fine. The hook then becomes the reluctance to go across the bar (although the image I often use is "beyond the beaded curtain") rather than nonconsent.

 

[PervOtaku]

For a definitive answer, submit the story and see how Laurel reacts.

This is what it comes down to in the end. There are a lot of policies that are not documented or poorly documented except by rumor and hearsay in the forums. Folks also accuse Laurel of enforcing her own rules inconsistently, possibly due to reading some stories thoroughly and merely skimming others.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think the advice to read some of the stories in Non-Consent here was the best advice. It will show you what has been accepted before. Apparently, if you depict the one not consenting as being happy with it in the end, you'll be all right here.

Usually, when I write in this realm I would have already established the want for being taken before it happens and then the relief it happened at the end and the story goes through fine. The hook then becomes the reluctance to go across the bar (although the image I often use is "beyond the beaded curtain") rather than nonconsent.

But the issue is consistency as in there is none.

We've seen it many times. Someone shows up here and is upset their story got rejected for a reason, but can point to dozens of stories that have similar if not 'worse' content.

So reading what's here will still not guarantee acceptance because it could be submitted on the day the sites was paying more attention than other days.

The problem is there is no strict enforcement of any rule here which leaves the people continuing to try to explain them look like idiots.

Because the answer of seeing what's here would be the right one, if rules were enforced the same way all the time.

 

[sr71plt]

But the issue is consistency as in there is none.

The issue is folks who won't tolerate the fetishes of others while wanting their own fetishes accepted here.

It obviously is like the Supreme Court's "I know it when I see it" with Laurel, not the individual users, being the Supreme Court for Literotica.

 

[lovecraft68]

The issue is folks who won't tolerate the fetishes of others while wanting their own fetishes accepted here.

You can avoid being coy with me. You're saying incest writers shouldn't condemn rape writers.

We'll keep this simple. Show me the no incest is allowed rule and I'll never write another one here and we'll call it a day.

But you can't find that because it doesn't exist.

But what does exist is 'oh, no 'real rape' stories rules, but they are here and there is a damn section named for it.

And as I have said many times, but no one wants to hear because it takes away the little jibes like yours, is I don't give a rats ass if the site says yes, we allow rape. I don't believe in censorship and I'm not forced to go read there, everyone likes what they like.

The point has always been the beyond idiotic make believe rule its not tolerated when you have the section for it.

Again other sites that don't allow it have no category like non consent.

Its not the fact its here that I care about its the hypocrisy and the way they try to claim they don't want it. Truthfully they are not much better with underage.

What the site says is no sex involving a minor. But what is all over here? "I'm twenty" and then "I" proceed to act twelve for the duration of the story and everyone reading it knows what it really is, but since they didn't say "I'm sixteen" its all good.

If you create a rule, enforce it and do it across the board or don't bother enforcing it. Here its like a security guard watching six people ealk past them with TV's on their shoulders they stole, then busting guy number seven because oh, well guess I have to act like I care.

 

[sr71plt]

You can avoid being coy with me. You're saying incest writers shouldn't condemn rape writers.

To the extent I'm being coy, I'm saying you are a rabid hypocrite on this issue.

I haven't campaigned on having any of it wiped off the Web site. I comment on underage from time to time but that's to point out the Web site's rules, which are more clear-cut than for nonconsent/rape. If it were my Web site, I'd take the age limit down. It's hard writing a believable historical with 18 being the cutoff. In the Middle Ages, most people were dead by then.

 

[Handley_Page]

. It's hard writing a believable historical with 18 being the cutoff. In the Middle Ages, most people were dead by then.

A good average in the Middle Ages was about 40.

 

[legerdemer]

A good average in the Middle Ages was about 40.

For the ones who made it past infancy... very high death rate of infants back then, not to mention during birth. I guess it's all in how you count.

 

[sr71plt]

I've had a real problem conceptualize writing up sexy and desirable characters of 18 even in the nineteenth century when everyone around them has a baby on their hip at 15.

 

[Hypoxia]

I've had a eal problem conceptualize writing up sexy and desirable characters of 18 even in the nineteenth century when everyone around them has a baby on their hip at 15.

You're an author. Authors are liars with keyboards. So, lie about it. Or be fuzzy about pre-18 sex. Obfuscate. Throw in werewolves and nobody will notice. Or focus on retarded Hapsburgs who can't form coherent sexual (or other) thoughts.

Meanwhile, I'm looking for a place for this:

"Oh daddy!"
Luke grinned as his fat cock slipped in and out of his luscious daughter Lucy's juicy cunt.
It's good to be pope.​

Purely historical. I just won't mention ages.

 

[ElectricBlue]

It was better when you had the eal problem, i reckon....

I've had a real problem conceptualize writing up sexy and desirable characters of 18 even in the nineteenth century when everyone around them has a baby on their hip at 15.

 

[emap]

Non consent is there because some people do enjoy being pushed down and had, either sex on the pushed down and had part.

The rule is vague because there sort of isn't a rule on it. I mean hello no violent rape, except you can put in a violent rape when it is not the focus of the story. Most assume the rule on non consent is simply she has to enjoy it. Course guys can be raped by women, most guys refuse to accept that but it is possible.

As a basic rule non consent is where you put the rape fantasy stories, as in she really gets off on being pushed down and had. Which is rather fun, though it isn't the rule on non consent, it's a good guideline.

On literotica there are not many things that won't get posted. Beastiality, snuff stories, and underage sex. Those are the hard fast rules, no exception they are NOT ALLOWED. Violent rapes are allowed, I posted a story featuring that at the beginning, sort of. Violent rapes can't be the entire story, there has to be something happening later that makes up for it. Killing people in your stories are allowed, so long as nobody is getting off on the killing.

I read a story a while back, no idea if it is still around. In that a woman is raped by a burglar or whatever, she got off on it because she thought it was her boyfriend. At the very end she is killed, I think because the guy uses a knife on her, part of her fantasy, but after sticking it in her it fades to black, so maybe she died. This story was posted despite it being in a way a violent rape and snuff. The difference is the rape is not violent and she got off on it because it is a fantasy, why there is a non consent section, and she likely dies at the end, but this is after the sex, so not snuff. It also simply fades to black no more story so not snuff in that sense.

If anybody still doesn't get it, go away and don't come back. If you are unsure on what snuff is, google it.

 

[sr71plt]

It was better when you had the eal problem, i reckon....

Yeah, that was fun.

 

[HeyAll]

Here's the official stance from Laurel:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=926617

As far as sexualized violence for non-plot-motivation reasons goes - some women (and men) enjoy reading about rough, sometimes even degrading sex. My guideline generally is that if I feel a reader with that kink could enjoy placing themselves as the recipient of the sexual roughness, then it's postable. If it's a fantasy written as an aggressor-fantasy with no regard for the recipient, then I may send it back to the author, who can then send it back to me with reasons why I'm wrong - and they're sometimes right.

Things that are never okay: graphic and explicit castration, mutilation, and murder for the purposes of sexual titillation.

 

[Hypoxia]

Here's the official stance from Laurel:

http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=926617

I posted that a few spots up. TL/DR eh?

 

[ForeverLaughing]

If your question was a genuine one, I'll apologise for the brevity.
However, we've lately had some 'wind-up' questions set out to deliberately disturb.

Ah, I see. It really is a legitimate question, but I can understand how it could come off as a deliberate attempt at starting a flame war, which unfortunately happened.

If they read some consent stories they will realize there are no rules, none that are enforced anyway.

And this was my problem. I've read several and haven't been able to find a consistent defining point where it's no longer prohibited, criminal rape, and allowed, fantasy non-consent/reluctance.

There is a rule listed in two places here. The first can be found in the FAQ under reasons for rejection. It leads to a post by a member here listing all the reasons a story can be rejected and rape is mentioned at the bottom.
...

But there is a sticky in story ideas-btw the way the mod there personally is a fan of rape fantasies so no surprise that's where it was placed- that says its a slippery slope and if it fits the tone of the story it can be allowed.

I didn't see those, and I will look in those sections as a first step if I have further questions on what is permissible.

For a definitive answer, submit the story and see how Laurel reacts.

This isn't a great solution because, if it's rejected, it will be rejected in the one form that I want to tell the story. I would rather ask a question at the beginning of the process, even if I get ambiguous answers, rather than put all of the effort into writing it, only to find out that it can't be published.

 

[sr71plt]

This isn't a great solution because, if it's rejected, it will be rejected in the one form that I want to tell the story. I would rather ask a question at the beginning of the process, even if I get ambiguous answers, rather than put all of the effort into writing it, only to find out that it can't be published.

Then you'll have to compromise or decide not to have it posted here. Nobody here can take over your responsibilities for you.