off-grid living: human right, or human wrong?

[MallardGoodbody]

So I’ve read about how in some places (specifically Florida) it has been deemed illegal to not be connected to municipal services. Some places only demand that you must be connected to the city’s water system, even if you never use it, you still must be connected. Depending on in which state you reside, your locality will have various rules and penalties if you do not comply. Arizona proposed additional taxing of solar power users and in some places you can be charged with things like child endangerment or cruelty to animals and as a result you may be in danger of getting evicted from your totally functioning home after it has been labeled legally uninhabitable. Should homeowners be allowed to derive all water and power needs from non government controlled sources? Should a more nature based approach be glorified or vilified?

 

[WalksOnWater]

Should homeowners be allowed to derive all water and power needs from non government controlled sources? Should a more nature based approach be glorified or vilified?

Should anyone but another lemming care?

 

[LIVINRFANTASIES]

In Florida to live on your own land you first need an approved licensed installer to install a septic system. Then an approved well to get hooked to electricity. If in the city you must have the water run to your home and pay the hook up fee.
To put the home or mobil home on your land you need building permits, access fees, impact fees, etc.
You also need a culvert across your drive even if you live on flat ground.

As a neighbor found out, you can not live in a fully self contained RV and dig your own well. Even in the country you can not have an out house.

If you are an illegal alien six families can live in a one car garage and shit behind it while collecting welfare for 27 kids.

 

[Bert Notorius]

in hawaii
on the big island
they are called
punatics.

i may have shared a glass of
okolehao
with a few.

 

[warrior queen]

In my state in Oz (Tasmania) there are a lot of people who live completely off-the-grid.
No mains power, water, or sewerage, and almost completely self-sufficient. Self-built homes.
The only thing they pay the gov't for are land rates, which is a % total of the real value of the land they are on.
Very cheap living!

I like to think my last home will be something like that

 

[Liar]

Human right or human wrong?

Human folly.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You don't have rights for shit, the government is basically unlimited in it's ability to extort money from you.

I doubt living off the grid will even be an option in this country by the end of the century. California does all they can to keep me from feeding myself every year, they fucking hate that shit. My only saving grace is that I make enough to hire lawyers and I'm not selling anything except the stuff I have a permit to sell. It's just a matter of time before they ban feeding yourself anything. The idea of me doing something for myself terrifies the fuckin' shit out of some liburhul dipshit hipster in the SF/LA who thinks I'll kill myself without a live in FDA field agent approving every meal, so they will get Sac to outlaw it.

Because that's how shit works here. L.A. and S.F. pay Sacramento to fuck with the rest of the state just for the shits and giggles of it.

Alaska/Montana/Texas will be the last places on earth you're allowed to live without an HOA's microscope up your ass 24/7.

The electric company is entitled to your income and if you don't have any they have a right to deny you housing because of it, wooooh! go big bully gubbmint yea!!

 

[oddity83]

In my state in Oz (Tasmania) there are a lot of people who live completely off-the-grid.
No mains power, water, or sewerage, and almost completely self-sufficient. Self-built homes.
The only thing they pay the gov't for are land rates, which is a % total of the real value of the land they are on.
Very cheap living!

I like to think my last home will be something like that

I wish more places where like that. Few places in the United States where your truly free.

 

[LIVINRFANTASIES]

Here in the boonies of Florida we are almost self sufficant. We have our own well and septic. We are on the electric grid but during the many storms we use a generator. If gas weren't so expensive we'd always use it.

We can kill deer, ferrel hogs, rabbit, squirrel, and other critters. Nothing grows in this sand without fertilizer and I'm too cheap to buy it. In the long run buying fresh from the produce stands is not much more and I don't have to bend over.

The more I think of people living on the prairie years ago the more I respect them.

 

[Hard_Rom]

Connection to a proper sewage system is a big one for municipalities. Municipal or septic. They usually demand municipal if choice is there. Unregulated sewage is a huge health hazard. I bet we've been paying county fees for well digging since either taxes, wells, or counties came about.

If done properly it is doable. If your being hassled by the man over county permits you are too close to town, move further away.

Much more doable in warmer climes. Heating costs in winter can be huge in terms of work outlay or costs. Pellet burning stoves seem to be the best bet.

The cabin we fish out of north of Sudbury (Lake Onaping) has 12v solar power and heated water (backed up by propane). With wood stoves. You would have to be real die hard to go through a winter up there in the place. Not enough birch on 2 acres to support lots of firewood.

Could be done the big blue cabin is well constructed and the white cabin is small. I always think of roughing it like the white cabin. A central room with picnic table, wood stove, propane stove, electric fridge and sink (water 12v pumps) with counter top and cabinets. Three bedrooms with two single beds (one is double) each. A bathroom, shower/bath/ toilet and sink. Septic tank is a 250 gallon oil tank lower on slope then discharges into lake.

Lot easier to keep warm in cold weather. Uses less electricity too. 12v tubes making way for LEDs.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Much more doable in warmer climes. Heating costs in winter can be huge in terms of work outlay.

Fuckin sorry ass weak lil bitch......choppin wood is good for you.

 

[thør]

Fuckin sorry ass weak lil bitch......choppin wood is good for you.

It warms you twice, or thrice!

 

[BotanyBoy]

It warms you twice, or thrice!

Difference is determined by BotanyGirl watching or not

 

[Hard_Rom]

2 acres cannot supply enough wood to get through winters. Spruce and fir is lousy firewood. Birch is only deciduous hardwood up there and is not that abundant. Off property is provincial park. No wood cutting allowed there. So you would have to bring in firewood for a winter. That is when a pellet burner comes in.

The two acres supplies enough wood for spring and fall trips. Don't usually have fires during the summer trips.

I love splitting firewood. Great exercise and accomplishing an important task. Three years ago one guy's kids brought up a buddy of theirs. He was from Zimbabwe. His job from age 10 -18 was splitting fire wood. Holy Crap! This 5'6" 120lb 25 year old could split logs like he was born to it.

 

[Hypoxia]

We live in a modular house (trailer) on a private gravel road in a rural mountain hamlet in California's central Sierras Nevada. Typical lots here (ours too) are about 1.5 acres / 0.6 hectares. No sewer; the county requires septics in rural subdivisions. Those further in the woods may depend on outhouses. We *could* live on solar+generator power, cell signals for phone-tv-net, tanked-in water, poached deer, haul our own trash, etc. Gov't mandates are pretty light here. If only we could shoot neighbors' noisy dogs...

If you live in close proximity to others, you'll find more regulations, which mostly serve to keep neighbors from infecting or slaughtering each other. For fewer rules, move away.

IIRC many California counties allow non-code housing under certain conditions -- this grew from the hippy back-to-the-land movement of a few decades back. I've built and lived in non-code houses here with no official interference. But those were WAY off in the woods...

 

[BotanyBoy]

For fewer rules, move away.

Bullshit....I live in one of the most remote counties in the state, we don't even have one single stop light and fewer people than most CA high schools.

Try any of that shit and CA will send their fucking bureaucrats after you swinging full force.

Raw milk? Talapia Aquaponics? Un-Certified eggs and poultry?

ZOMG!!

Worse than crack...SWAT teams GO!

That is right, the state of California will kick in your door, shoot your beta fish, dog, cat, hamster and drag your ass into the yard zip tied like a fuckin' hog for slaughter over drinking raw milk.

That's no bullshit.

They will even confiscate all your shit to sell off even if they don't press charges and it's up to you to prove you commited no crime to the courts to get it back. Popo auction is next week the soonest court date you can get is 4 months from now. And god forbid, I mean GAWD FERBID! they find any guns anywhere or you're super fucked because then that milk is a gun crime, 4real 4real.

 

[Hypoxia]

Bullshit....I live in one of the most remote counties in the state, we don't even have one single stop light and fewer people than most CA high schools.

Alpine County? Around Markleeville, or maybe the Kirkwood ski resort? Just up the road from me? No other California county qualifies. Even Modoc County has a stoplight.

Raw milk? Talapia Aquaponics? Un-Certified eggs and poultry?

If you sell that stuff to others then health regulations are rational. Food poisoning is no joke. Had any botulism lately?

 

[BotanyBoy]

Alpine County? Around Markleeville, or maybe the Kirkwood ski resort? Just up the road from me? No other California county qualifies. Even Modoc County has a stoplight.

Trinity county.

We has no traffic light, not even in it's biggest town of Weaverville.

In fact Weaverville just got it's first 4 way stop sign on 299 just recently, shit's crazy. Like 1 min of traffic now...god damn buu shit I tell ya.

If you sell that stuff to others then health regulations are rational. Food poisoning is no joke. Had any botulism lately?

Not really, they are dairy industry stupid and you don't have to sell it to others to get a SWAT team up your ass.

Yep and despite the USDA/FDA there are plenty of food poisoning cases none of which have happened in my residence but that didn't stop CA from freaking out over the fact that I feed myself.

I thought it was for the weed.....nope....Talapia and Milk, huge fuckin' no no's without bazzillionz in licencing/inspections/buushit.

That stuff is for rich people only! Only rich people should be able to live off their land and LA/SF liburhulz will do everything they can to ensure that. Can't have stupid hillbillies like BotanyBoy growing his own food.

That shit hurts people like Safeway and Wholepaycheck Foods

 

[Hypoxia]

Trinity county.

Trinity has 10x Alpine's population. You're overly congested there.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Trinity has 10x Alpine's population. You're overly congested there.

We also have nearly 5x Alpines co's land, if you were to flatten both out even more so. Not to mention I can drive clear across Alpine and into downtown Sac faster than I can get to a phone signal much less help from here.

Still doesn't have any traffic lights and CA dems still fucking hate hillbillies who feed themselves instead of blowing their wad at wholepaycheck foods.

 

[Emerson40]

We used to dream of living in a corridor.

 

[Noor]

We used to dream of living in a corridor.

You try telling that to the young people of today...

 

[NOIRTRASH]

In Florida the correct answer is YES AND NO.

Plenty of people live in the woods full time. The law requires new construction be connected to water and electricity but older structures and camps comply with drinking water and sanitary toilets. A porta-let is okay, bottled water is okay.

 

[colddiesel]

I have a place in the semi desert in Australia. It's big, a bit more than 45,000 hectares and bugger all use for anything. It's rolling low hills with some rocky gullies in one stretch and a couple of creek beds which might flow every year or two after rain storms. I live there about 50-60% of the time.

It's full of wild life, and unfortunately feral animals as well, including Dogs, cats goats donkeys, horses, camels, and pigs. I have a aboriginal guy and his family who look after the place and they make a bit of extra money shooting and trapping the feral livestock as well as roos. There are also a few cattle left over from when it was run (at a loss) as a cattle run, mebbe 100, probably less.

It's hot as hell from October till April but we built some accommodation which consists of a shipping container shoved into the entrance of a couple of short adit mines which were dug out in a fruitless search for gold many years ago. Even in summer it's always cool 60 to 70 feet into the tunnel. Power is supplied by a generator run by a slow speed diesel, similar to the one in my AV except that it's a 12HP twin cylinder. It runs on margarine! I get that from a guy who manufactures marge near the coast. It is the stuff cleaned out of the system every time they clean it between batches - smells better than diesel.

Water comes from a well/pump close by the creek bed

Nearest public dirt road is 30 k's away nearest tarred road 200 k's plus. We have a dirt airstrip which is essential because I have to go to Sydney quite a bit.

Nothing spectacular to look at but I like the isolation, the bush and the night skys.