Average does not give enough detail

[evecollins]

Nebie alert - feel free ignore any sentiments expressed in this post.

Just a thought.

Readers can rate stories between 1 and 5 stars. They cannot rate a story 0. Say you get 100 votes and an average of 3: that *could* mean that around 20 readers each voted one, two, three, four and five stars. But it may be a quite different situation: half the readers voting four or five and the other half one or two. (What stats wonks would call bi-modal)

In the first case I guess you should improve your writing to up the average, but in the second case you have one set of readers who are unlikely to like your stuff whatever you do, and another set who just want you to carry on doing the same thing. The point is the average alone does not tell you.

What is needed is the count of one-star votes, two-star votes, and so on.

Love and lust
Eve

 

[NotWise]

Nebie alert - feel free ignore any sentiments expressed in this post.

Just a thought.

Readers can rate stories between 1 and 5 stars. They cannot rate a story 0. Say you get 100 votes and an average of 3: that *could* mean that around 20 readers each voted one, two, three, four and five stars. But it may be a quite different situation: half the readers voting four or five and the other half one or two. (What stats wonks would call bi-modal)

In the first case I guess you should improve your writing to up the average, but in the second case you have one set of readers who are unlikely to like your stuff whatever you do, and another set who just want you to carry on doing the same thing. The point is the average alone does not tell you.

What is needed is the count of one-star votes, two-star votes, and so on.

Love and lust
Eve

Your second case is probably more common than your first. If you're getting public comments then you might be able to tell. In some categories the votes come in slowly enough that you can track the scores and figure out what the votes are. That leaves little doubt about the distribution.

For the story that I tracked most carefully the votes were mostly either a 1 or a 4 or 5. Most of the ones were later swept by the admin.

 

[sr71plt]

One sign of no longer being a newbie here will be fully accepting that there isn't much of a connection between the rating and the quality of the story.

 

[Hypoxia]

Yup, yet another new-author query. Vote scores have less to do with quality than with button-pushing. A badly-written but vivid tale that suits a category's obsessions will do better than a wry crafted piece -- see any of my lower-scored stories.

Vote scores are not the only story metric, nor even the most important IMHO. In some categories it's not difficult to gain a fat Red-H with fewer than 5000 views. I measure my success by the number of views -- how many eyeballs did I grab? -- the count of favorites -- they really like it! -- and the number and intensity of comments. If I provoke readers to respond, I've done my job -- I've *affected* them.

What's more important, brownie points or eyeballs or reactions? You decide.

 

[LIVINRFANTASIES]

Not Average

There seems to be too much concern about getting ratings and pats on the back than just having fun writing and hoping someone is reading our stories.

Most stories do have a code to show ratings although I already forgot and don't care.
I figured out how to add our story link and post to lots of threads as cheap advertisement. It seems to get a few readers and that's enough to make me smile.

 

[GoldenCojones]

Score vs Comments

What I find interesting is that the higher my story scores, the fewer comments I get.

Don't know if that means anything or not.

 

[coldwater1]

I made almost the same post when I first got here. For what it's worth, your first scenario seems pretty unlikely. It's more likely between most people voting 3 (with some 2s and 4s) or you have polarized your readers and its lots of voting at the top and bottom of the spectrum and very few 3s.

I am still with you; I would be interested to see the vote distribution. I lend more credence to the votes than Sr71plt does. I guess that just means I'm still a newbie.

I definitely wouldn't try to compare the scores in one category to those in another.

Within one category, however, they seem to be a reasonable guide. If I read the top rated stories, I usually conclude they are pretty damn good. If I read the low rated ones, they usually aren't very good.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

You can try to watch your score changing; if you look often enough to see it change for each individual vote, it's simple math to work out what each person voted. It's a dull way to spend a weekend, though.

As others have noted, scores don't mean as much as you'd think. There are two problems: one, anything good gets either a 4 or a 5, with 4 meaning "eh, ok." So realistically all the meaningful scores are somewhere between 4.2 and 5. That range is so narrow and high that a single grumpy 2 vote can yank an average down hard - as people in my field would put it, the score has a signal-to-noise problem.

Second, if you manage to annoy anyone, you'll get a "one bomber", someone who runs around putting 1s or 2s on anything you post. If you post controversial stuff, or edgy stuff in the wrong category, you'll probably end up with one. The site periodically has some algorithm that runs around removing these bombs, but they run it when they want to, so a "one bomber" can nail your story early, keeping your score below the much-coveted 4.5 for days.

Ultimately... don't sweat it. When readers contact you, either in story comments or email, that's how you find out how your writing is doing.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Actually the database stores every vote made and by whom it was made. The site chooses to only display the average.

 

[evecollins]

... It's more likely between most people voting 3 (with some 2s and 4s)...

Of course, this is quite correct. My bad for not saying so.

 

[evecollins]

Actually the database stores every vote made and by whom it was made. The site chooses to only display the average.

I did suspect this was the case.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Actually the database stores every vote made and by whom it was made. The site chooses to only display the average.

The "by whom" is probably only a cookie or IP address, which means clever sock puppets can hide identity. But even with that, Lit's sitting on a small treasure trove of data. Imagine being able to correlate scores on categories with geographic information, ages, previous voting patterns...

Authors could make use of that data if and when they decide to market. Lit could sell it to publishers. All sorts of uses...

 

[Zeb_Carter]

The "by whom" is probably only a cookie or IP address, which means clever sock puppets can hide identity. But even with that, Lit's sitting on a small treasure trove of data. Imagine being able to correlate scores on categories with geographic information, ages, previous voting patterns...

Authors could make use of that data if and when they decide to market. Lit could sell it to publishers. All sorts of uses...

Most likely, but if you're logged in when you cast the vote, I bet they store the userID also.

And how do you get age? I know I haven't given Lit. my DOB or age. The most they could infer is that I'm over 17 and that's not necessarily true either.

Now the other information is a wealth of data about...

Who (if user was logged in at the time of the vote),
Location (derived by IP address & even this is a stretch, TOR browsers can screw this data up a lot),
Vote,
Story Name,
Author Name,
category.

 

[loquere]

One sign of no longer being a newbie here will be fully accepting that there isn't much of a connection between the rating and the quality of the story.

Yeah, there are some good stories out there that are derailed by haters. I recall one story I read where I had to ask why it wasn't even 4 stars.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Most likely, but if you're logged in when you cast the vote, I bet they store the userID also.

And how do you get age? I know I haven't given Lit. my DOB or age. The most they could infer is that I'm over 17 and that's not necessarily true either.

Now the other information is a wealth of data about...

Who (if user was logged in at the time of the vote),
Location (derived by IP address & even this is a stretch, TOR browsers can screw this data up a lot),
Vote,
Story Name,
Author Name,
category.

Some Lit accounts are filled in with gender and age - most, though, don't. I suppose I don't blame people for leaving everything blank, but I do check any almost any favorite left on my stuff to get a feel for who's reading me.

You can get other hints from the Lit account data - age=18 and drink=no hints at under 18, etc. Age, gender and location gives you a shot at political affiliation and possibly income level, though that only works in large data sets, and you really want to add education level for those, which Lit doesn't offer. Capturing when they became a member (and hence how old they were when they started reading) is valuable, except in my experience a lot of people started here before 18 so the data would be skewed.

Reading or posting from IPs in several parts of your country? You're a traveller - that puts you in a higher income bracket. Does your IP change a lot but usually stay in the same region or hop between adjacent regions? Cell phone user - higher income bracket. Do you PM a lot of people, almost always females, and rarely the same one more than a few times? You're male and probably under 55. Are you on during working hours in your area? You're retired. Posting from a Mac? You're more likely to be liberal (yes, there's support for that.) Still running Windows 98? You're poor.

Don't underestimate the ability to tease information out of large data sets. Google and Amazon know more about you than you ever told them, because they know this.

 

[Darkniciad]

It's not just TOR that can flub that up, either. My IP always locates me as being a three hour drive away from where I actually live. Small towns.

The closest it can pin me down is a state. Odds are this applies to millions of people living here in "flyover country" and using major nationwide ISPs ( because there are no alternatives )

Location (derived by IP address & even this is a
stretch, TOR browsers can screw this data up a lot)

 

[JustaSCOUNDREL]

The link below shows you hod to get a rough idea of what your scores are. Again it is only a rough idea.

I only have a very few stories posted and since the vast majority of the "looks" do not vote I have turned off scoring and comments. If it is to much trouble for them to vote fuck them it is too much trouble for me to give a damn what they think.

https://www.literotica.com/s/how-to-analyze-your-scores

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Some Lit accounts are filled in with gender and age - most, though, don't. I suppose I don't blame people for leaving everything blank, but I do check any almost any favorite left on my stuff to get a feel for who's reading me.

You can get other hints from the Lit account data - age=18 and drink=no hints at under 18, etc. Age, gender and location gives you a shot at political affiliation and possibly income level, though that only works in large data sets, and you really want to add education level for those, which Lit doesn't offer. Capturing when they became a member (and hence how old they were when they started reading) is valuable, except in my experience a lot of people started here before 18 so the data would be skewed.

Reading or posting from IPs in several parts of your country? You're a traveller - that puts you in a higher income bracket. Does your IP change a lot but usually stay in the same region or hop between adjacent regions? Cell phone user - higher income bracket. Do you PM a lot of people, almost always females, and rarely the same one more than a few times? You're male and probably under 55. Are you on during working hours in your area? You're retired. Posting from a Mac? You're more likely to be liberal (yes, there's support for that.) Still running Windows 98? You're poor.

Don't underestimate the ability to tease information out of large data sets. Google and Amazon know more about you than you ever told them, because they know this.

The problem is, that Over 18 is the default age answer.

Posting from different IP's from the US is normal as very few will pay extra for a static IP. Want a different IP, just use your config command and change the one you have. They will rotate among about 5 - 10 different ones available from you ISP, but still, usually, place you in the same geographic area. Or have your TOR browser rotate them for you. Using a TOR browser will make you look like a world traveler, when you're not.

And none of what you think you know, is true about...well...at least me. And just because you own a cell phone or use a cell phone does not make you a high income earner. I know homeless people who have working cell phones, who text and post to facebook, etc. Who don't have a dime to their name, except that monthly fee to the cell phone company. Now only $35 Unlimited, unlimited, unlimited. And with free wifi all over the place, and google phone, you don't need a cell provider.

 

[NotWise]

Posting from different IP's from the US is normal as very few will pay extra for a static IP. Want a different IP, just use your config command and change the one you have. They will rotate among about 5 - 10 different ones available from you ISP, but still, usually, place you in the same geographic area. Or have your TOR browser rotate them for you. Using a TOR browser will make you look like a world traveler, when you're not.

The site may be able to use the MAC address rather than the IP, and that might be a more dependable identification.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

One sign of no longer being a newbie here will be fully accepting that there isn't much of a connection between the rating and the quality of the story.

That is so true.

 

[Bramblethorn]

And just because you own a cell phone or use a cell phone does not make you a high income earner. I know homeless people who have working cell phones, who text and post to facebook, etc. Who don't have a dime to their name, except that monthly fee to the cell phone company. Now only $35 Unlimited, unlimited, unlimited. And with free wifi all over the place, and google phone, you don't need a cell provider.

Yep. Per http://www.pewinternet.org/2015/04/01/chapter-one-a-portrait-of-smartphone-ownership/ even in households with income less than $30k/year, 50% of American adults have smartphones these days.

Ownership rates do increase with income, up to 84% for households making more than $75k. BUT, those high-income folk are better able to afford other forms of internet access, so the poorest groups are the ones most dependent on phones for their internet: 13% in the poorest bracket, vs 1% in the richest.

 

[JaxRhapsody]

It's not just TOR that can flub that up, either. My IP always locates me as being a three hour drive away from where I actually live. Small towns.

The closest it can pin me down is a state. Odds are this applies to millions of people living here in "flyover country" and using major nationwide ISPs ( because there are no alternatives )

Yeah I have a firefox add-on, on my phone, that changes it's ip address at some unknown rate. Not to mention if you have more than one internet access to use, earlier today; I had a company Volvo, that had internet.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Yep. Per http://www.pewinternet.org/2015/04/01/chapter-one-a-portrait-of-smartphone-ownership/ even in households with income less than $30k/year, 50% of American adults have smartphones these days.

Ownership rates do increase with income, up to 84% for households making more than $75k. BUT, those high-income folk are better able to afford other forms of internet access, so the poorest groups are the ones most dependent on phones for their internet: 13% in the poorest bracket, vs 1% in the richest.

And then there's me. I throw off all the information age data. I can afford a cell phone even two or three, but really haven't found a use for just one. With landlines and Google Phone, what do I need a cell phone for? And I was tied to one for twenty odd years for work, now that I'm retired...it would be useless brick in my pocket.

 

[Darkniciad]

I only charge my cell about once every two weeks. That gives you an indication of how often I use the thing

 

[sr71plt]

I only charge my cell when I'm ready to take a long road trip. It isn't a smart phone. I've never received a call on it, and I have to read the directions again whenever I build up the courage to make a call on it. (If I'm in the car at the time, that means pulling over somewhere and fishing it out of my suitcase in the car trunk).