Reflections on Gentleman Doms

[cascadiabound]

Hahaha. No AV for you. That'll show ya.

Love the new AV.
Looks good on you!

 

[lakesailer_mi]

I'm not sure I have anything to add here, but I have given some thought to Dominant/submissive type relationships.

Frankly, there are many in life, not just the sexual ones that we are talking about here. Boss-worker, parent-child, military, Priest-parishioner, Coach-player, etc etc etc.

From what I have seen, in each and every one of these the best Doms are ones who see their role as one of service. True leaders recognize that leadership is ultimately service. Good bosses don't boss people around. They find what the person is good at, they get them the resources they need to do the job, and they give them the guidance they require to do the job.

Good parents don't boss their kids around. Sure, they are firm in their rules, and they make sure that when the rules are broken, the child is made to understand that there are consequences. But the parent is also there to support the child and help them to move forward in life. The rules are there for the child's benefit, at least most of the time.

If you've ever read Band of Brothers (way better than the HBO mini-series), or Citizen Soldiers, you will understand that Winters saw his role as one of service. While sometimes he had to make decisions that were difficult and enforce rules, ultimately, he saw his role as one of trying to make sure as many of his men survived as possible, while still accomplishing the mission. It was a balance and a role of service.

I don't know much about D/s. But it seems to me it's a leadership role. And that means that good leader is not one who just bosses people around. The Dom is someone who sees a greater purpose to the exercise and wants to bring out the "best" in the subs that he or she works with.

I've read posts by people who I think are quite excellent Doms. And I can see that leadership as service mindset in them.

It seems to me that being a Dom is likely very hard work, and rather a challenge.

 

[jameslewis]

I was asked to give my two cents, and that's really about all I know.
1. Submission is a choice, and a gift. It should always be received that way, and not viewed as a right. She chose to trust, and share, and grow. If you don't live up to your end, of being trustworthy and steady, accepting, and learning - you could lose that wonderful gift.
2. It's less a choice of whether to be submissive, than the choice of WHO they choose to share that part of themselves with. It's two sides of a coin, they have to match. It's a relationship that evolves; a partnership of equals who both have to be willing to explore and learn about themselves as much as about their partner. That balance has to be there for the relationship to grow. While this is true for any good relationship; it's probably more true for a D/s relationship.
https://41.media.tumblr.com/5b91bb5c61d53903a62e94bc1cbd9fe5/tumblr_o56qfnwj1C1u5vxd6o1_540.jpg
https://41.media.tumblr.com/7928549ce1ac4545107a42c4901111ab/tumblr_o56qfnwj1C1u5vxd6o2_540.jpg

 

[cascadiabound]

Thank you slinger, lake sailer and JamesLewis for added to this thread.

(and yes of course mickyp is entirely forgiven... I hope he forgives me! )

 

[All_4_Love]

To have a strong minded, strong willed intelligent woman give you her submission... that is what it's all about for me.. having a bobblehead doll with poor self esteem do so, isn't much of a challenge..

I'm not sure why a submissive woman would be viewed as a challenge. One would think that it's merely finding someone with a personality that is complementary to hers, and in doing so, things would simply fall into place.

Just because a woman is submissive in her nature, and therefore submissive to those she comes in contact with, does not make her submission to you any less valuable. I feel that the Doms that do share that point of view may be missing out on much more than they realize.

I can give my trust, my respect, my admiration, my dedication, my loyalty, my body, and my mind. What I cannot give is my submission, for it is already there, a part of who I am. There is no gift. To me, that just sounds absurd.

This has led me into the hands of a few men that were abusive and domineering. To quote something from the internet that I have felt to be very profound... "the difference between a dominant man and a controlling man, is that the dominant man cares about consent".

To say that a woman who is submissive and obedient is a bobblehead with low self esteem is terribly unkind and untrue. There are actually women out there who are intelligent, strong minded, and strong willed who do know their self worth. They tend to utilize these qualities with things in their lives that they feel are important and are passionate about, but are not always able to do so with people. It is draining, tiring, and exhaustive for them to do so when they feel they have no other choice. They feel overwhelmed and just want shelter from what feels like a storm.

There are women out there who are lost, who can easily be controlled, and unfortunately, mistreated. They are desperately trying to fulfill a need that even they do not understand. I can assure you that these women are far from weak.

If you are a Dom who believes that you are offering a service, as what has been stated here, perhaps the empathy that you are speaking of would be helpful in guiding these women to a better understanding of themselves instead of just putting labels on them...the labels that keep being preached about that shouldn't exist because no one should be put into a box.

If left to their own devices, this journey of self exploration could take years, and usually begins with a Google search that entails something along the lines of "what's wrong with me?"

If compassion and empathy are your strong points, then maybe these qualities can be used toward changing your perspectives on some of these women. They are treasures; they just don't see themselves as a gift. They are humble creatures. They need to feel loved and cherished for exactly what they are.

 

[lakesailer_mi]

I'm not sure why a submissive woman would be viewed as a challenge. One would think that it's merely finding someone with a personality that is complementary to hers, and in doing so, things would simply fall into place.

Just because a woman is submissive in her nature, and therefore submissive to those she comes in contact with, does not make her submission to you any less valuable. I feel that the Doms that do share that point of view may be missing out on much more than they realize.

I can give my trust, my respect, my admiration, my dedication, my loyalty, my body, and my mind. What I cannot give is my submission, for it is already there, a part of who I am. There is no gift. To me, that just sounds absurd.

This has led me into the hands of a few men that were abusive and domineering. To quote something from the internet that I have felt to be very profound... "the difference between a dominant man and a controlling man, is that the dominant man cares about consent".

To say that a woman who is submissive and obedient is a bobblehead with low self esteem is terribly unkind and untrue. There are actually women out there who are intelligent, strong minded, and strong willed who do know their self worth. They tend to utilize these qualities with things in their lives that they feel are important and are passionate about, but are not always able to do so with people. It is draining, tiring, and exhaustive for them to do so when they feel they have no other choice. They feel overwhelmed and just want shelter from what feels like a storm.

There are women out there who are lost, who can easily be controlled, and unfortunately, mistreated. They are desperately trying to fulfill a need that even they do not understand. I can assure you that these women are far from weak.

If you are a Dom who believes that you are offering a service, as what has been stated here, perhaps the empathy that you are speaking of would be helpful in guiding these women to a better understanding of themselves instead of just putting labels on them...the labels that keep being preached about that shouldn't exist because no one should be put into a box.

If left to their own devices, this journey of self exploration could take years, and usually begins with a Google search that entails something along the lines of "what's wrong with me?"

If compassion and empathy are your strong points, then maybe these qualities can be used toward changing your perspectives on some of these women. They are treasures; they just don't see themselves as a gift. They are humble creatures. They need to feel loved and cherished for exactly what they are.

This is really fascinating and a wonderful set of insights. I'm very glad to read this and I for one have learned a lot from it.

I would offer, that while slinger did indeed type that, I think if you read a previous post of his, you may find that you agree on far more than you disagree about.
(and, frankly, I don't often defend slinger, I figure he can do it himself).
I might also add that while there are many men out there, as you seem to suggest, who are controlling rather than dominant (and I love that distinction!), there are also many women out there who equivalently are not looking for submission as you have described it, but I think a different kind of thing...maybe to be "used." I believe this is what slinger is referring to. It is, I think, a caricature of a submissive, just as the "controller" you describe is a caricature of dom (or at least the type we seem to be discussing here). I think, based on slingers previous statements, that's what he meant.

Thank you for this.

 

[All_4_Love]

This is really fascinating and a wonderful set of insights. I'm very glad to read this and I for one have learned a lot from it.

I would offer, that while slinger did indeed type that, I think if you read a previous post of his, you may find that you agree on far more than you disagree about.
(and, frankly, I don't often defend slinger, I figure he can do it himself).

Thank you for this.

Thank you for your suggestion, as well. I will read again his previous posts and pay better attention, as there may be some things I have missed.

 

[All_4_Love]

I might also add that while there are many men out there, as you seem to suggest, who are controlling rather than dominant (and I love that distinction!), there are also many women out there who equivalently are not looking for submission as you have described it, but I think a different kind of thing...maybe to be "used." I believe this is what slinger is referring to. It is, I think, a caricature of a submissive, just as the "controller" you describe is a caricature of dom (or at least the type we seem to be discussing here). I think, based on slingers previous statements, that's what he meant.

Thank you for this.

Out of respect for myself and my significant other, I will not delve too deep into this topic. I will say, however, that I respectfully disagree.

 

[lakesailer_mi]

Out of respect for myself and my significant other, I will not delve too deep into this topic. I will say, however, that I respectfully disagree.

And, for the record, I can accept that we might have some disagreement.

I will also offer that you may have far better insights into this topic than I, and I will defer to your view.

Honestly, I think we actually agree on more than we disagree. The limits of short posts, and incomplete discussions I think are getting in the way.

 

[Scentofawoman]

they chase you, but not faster than you can reasonably run in your stripper heels.

they want to see you dressed to impress in black garters and no knickers, but you'd better be wearing pearls.

they bust down the door to get to where you're hiding, but they knock first.

they swear at you and call you Whore and Cumslut, but they start with "My Lady," and end with "if you please?"

they fuck you harder and longer than an Avenger train, but they bring you tea and crumpets in bed the next morning.


***NOTICE: the O.P. is entirely full of shit, and has absolutely no idea what she's talking about.
she just thought this would be a fun subject for a thread. ---The Mgmt.

Ok so if this is a Gentleman Dom sign me up. Who is this?

 

[cowslinger64]

I'm not sure why a submissive woman would be viewed as a challenge. One would think that it's merely finding someone with a personality that is complementary to hers, and in doing so, things would simply fall into place.

Just because a woman is submissive in her nature, and therefore submissive to those she comes in contact with, does not make her submission to you any less valuable. I feel that the Doms that do share that point of view may be missing out on much more than they realize.

I can give my trust, my respect, my admiration, my dedication, my loyalty, my body, and my mind. What I cannot give is my submission, for it is already there, a part of who I am. There is no gift. To me, that just sounds absurd.

This has led me into the hands of a few men that were abusive and domineering. To quote something from the internet that I have felt to be very profound... "the difference between a dominant man and a controlling man, is that the dominant man cares about consent".

To say that a woman who is submissive and obedient is a bobblehead with low self esteem is terribly unkind and untrue. There are actually women out there who are intelligent, strong minded, and strong willed who do know their self worth. They tend to utilize these qualities with things in their lives that they feel are important and are passionate about, but are not always able to do so with people. It is draining, tiring, and exhaustive for them to do so when they feel they have no other choice. They feel overwhelmed and just want shelter from what feels like a storm.

There are women out there who are lost, who can easily be controlled, and unfortunately, mistreated. They are desperately trying to fulfill a need that even they do not understand. I can assure you that these women are far from weak.

If you are a Dom who believes that you are offering a service, as what has been stated here, perhaps the empathy that you are speaking of would be helpful in guiding these women to a better understanding of themselves instead of just putting labels on them...the labels that keep being preached about that shouldn't exist because no one should be put into a box.

If left to their own devices, this journey of self exploration could take years, and usually begins with a Google search that entails something along the lines of "what's wrong with me?"

If compassion and empathy are your strong points, then maybe these qualities can be used toward changing your perspectives on some of these women. They are treasures; they just don't see themselves as a gift. They are humble creatures. They need to feel loved and cherished for exactly what they are.

As someone that has been active in this lifestyle for a bit, these are my observations. I've had numerous discussions with some that have been in it much longer about this same subject.

I'm not sure to what extent you are active in it, you are offering your opinions based on your experience. I respect that. However you should have actually paid attention to what I wrote then, and before. Your opinion of what I said was taken out of context, and lakesailer summed it up very well IMO.

I've seen exactly what I've discussed in my post, in real life. I've seen unintelligent, weak, low self esteemed women offer and do up the most degrading things in order to please a dom... many times doms that have multiple play partners all vying for his attention competing like drunken groupies for a rock band. Women debasing themselves to please so-called doms that are nothing more than predatory bullies, misogynists with serious control issues.

I think a REAL dom/sub relationship is one of the most pure and beautiful ones there are. The ones I refer to are anything but real or beautiful. Sometimes there is something wrong with "them", whether it be the "dom" or the "sub" and as such have no business trying to dominate or submit to anyone.


My two cents.

And because tone is so hard to infer in a post, none of this was said in a retaliatory way.. or with anger. In fact it bothers me greatly that this sort of thing occurs but it's not my place to decide for someone else what's right or wrong..I try really hard to leave my judgements at the door when I go to fetish events.. and I'm usually successful..however that doesn't change the fact that I have opinions regarding them.

 

[cowslinger64]

And, for the record, I can accept that we might have some disagreement.

I will also offer that you may have far better insights into this topic than I, and I will defer to your view.

Honestly, I think we actually agree on more than we disagree. The limits of short posts, and incomplete discussions I think are getting in the way.

All too often posting long winded responses is a waste of time. It's like we all have add or something.. and I agree that stuff gets lost as we post snippets of how we feel... rather than having a serious exchange of ideas.

But you sussed out what I had to say perfectly..

 

[mickyp123]

All too often posting long winded responses is a waste of time. It's like we all have add or something.. and I agree that stuff gets lost as we post snippets of how we feel... rather than having a serious exchange of ideas.

But you sussed out what I had to say perfectly..

"Sussed"

Far to British lol

 

[cowslinger64]

"Sussed"

Far to British lol

Lol... I haven't forgotten everything from my time there..


btw...can ya send me some sausage and chips fresh from the chippy? Wrapped in paper too, please.

Ta!

 

[ponydriver]

Great discussion and respect today. Enjoying men taking the lead in this discussions since its about gentlemen.

 

[lakesailer_mi]

Lol... I haven't forgotten everything from my time there..


btw...can ya send me some sausage and chips fresh from the chippy? Wrapped in paper too, please.

Ta!

Wait! He does take out orders! Holy hell...

I need some decent fish n' chips!

Also, I have a hell of a time finding some of the ales I like.

And, there is no one who makes a decent full English breakfast here...

I got to work on another visit.

 

[All_4_Love]

And, for the record, I can accept that we might have some disagreement.

I will also offer that you may have far better insights into this topic than I, and I will defer to your view.

Honestly, I think we actually agree on more than we disagree. The limits of short posts, and incomplete discussions I think are getting in the way.

Okay, we agree to disagree that we may agree on more than we think. *smile*

And I'm giving you my peace offering...

http://youtu.be/ee5L55cX888

Ironically, I sent this very same song to the only gentleman here that I ever unknowingly allowed myself to be "used" by, right after I first joined Lit, when I had finally figured out "what was wrong with me", and I was desperately searching for the loving sadist of my dreams. He was always a gentleman during the fairly short time that I knew him. My self esteem? Completely intact. Being incredibly submissive, trusting, and naive, a bobblehead does not make.

And I will see myself out of this conversation now. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and suggestions with me, and most of all, thank you for your kindness.

As someone that has been active in this lifestyle for a bit, these are my observations. I've had numerous discussions with some that have been in it much longer about this same subject.

I'm not sure to what extent you are active in it, you are offering your opinions based on your experience. I respect that. However you should have actually paid attention to what I wrote then, and before. Your opinion of what I said was taken out of context, and lakesailer summed it up very well IMO.

I am not active to any extent. My opinions are based on how I feel, and who I know myself to be. If it is your opinion that I have taken what you've said out of context, so be it.

I think a REAL dom/sub relationship is one of the most pure and beautiful ones there are.

I could not agree with you more. Beautiful beyond what words could even say. And with all due respect, I don't consider your relationship a Dom/sub relationship and that is where we will always disagree.

The ones I refer to are anything but real or beautiful. Sometimes there is something wrong with "them", whether it be the "dom" or the "sub" and as such have no business trying to dominate or submit to anyone.

Yes, I understand. Again, a woman who is submissive in her nature will not "try" to submit to anyone. She is submissive. I am assuming it is the same for a dominant man.

 

[cascadiabound]

Great discussion and respect today. Enjoying men taking the lead in this discussions since its about gentlemen.

Ditto.

 

[RoyceConnors]

To me, being a lady's Dom is an honour and privilege. It immediately says that a strong bond of trust exists between you, enough that she is willing to let down her guard and let you have control of her pleasure. That trust is the most sacred to guard and never let falter in the least. Above all else, respect for her and what you do together must be upheld and never used in a retaliatory way.

Pleasure comes in many forms and a good lover will always rise to the occasion to fulfil his partner's needs.

 

[lakesailer_mi]

Okay, we agree to disagree that we may agree on more than we think. *smile*

And I'm giving you my peace offering...

http://youtu.be/ee5L55cX888

Ironically, I sent this very same song to the only gentleman here that I ever unknowingly allowed myself to be "used" by, right after I first joined Lit, when I had finally figured out "what was wrong with me", and I was desperately searching for the loving sadist of my dreams. He was always a gentleman during the fairly short time that I knew him. My self esteem? Completely intact. Being incredibly submissive, trusting, and naive, a bobblehead does not make.

And I will see myself out of this conversation now. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and suggestions with me, and most of all, thank you for your kindness.

.

A peace offering was hardly needed...but the music and sentiment is duly appreciated.

 

[cowslinger64]

I could not agree with you more. Beautiful beyond what words could even say. And with all due respect, I don't consider your relationship a Dom/sub relationship and that is where we will always disagree.



Yes, I understand. Again, a woman who is submissive in her nature will not "try" to submit to anyone. She is submissive. I am assuming it is the same for a dominant man.[/QUOTE]

I recommend doing more reading on the subject then. We are dom/sub but not master/slave. We do not live the lifestyle 24/7.

http://www.submissiveguide.com/encyclopedia/dominant/

snip:

A Dom is a partner who takes the role of giver or controller in such acts as bondage, discipline, humiliation, or servitude. Such acts are performed on a sub. Many Doms incorporate all aspects of being a Top but this is not universal.

While a Dom will take care of his sub, he will be giving orders or otherwise employ physical or psychological techniques of control. He might instruct the submissive to perform the act on him.

The relationship between a Dom and his sub may be very transitory or can be permanent. Some Doms are married to their sub. Long term relationships are known as D/s (Dominant/submissive) relationships.
-------------------------------------------------------------


And if you are not out in the bdsm community, it's not really correct to comment on something you have no information about. This was not a direct comment about you or to you... it was merely something I have witnessed myself.

No offense.. jus sayin.

 

[Wild_Honey_66]

*delurks*

Ok so if this is a Gentleman Dom sign me up. Who is this?

Sorry, Scent, Honey doesn't sub and tell.


*resumes lurking*

 

[All_4_Love]

And if you are not out in the bdsm community, it's not really correct to comment on something you have no information about. This was not a direct comment about you or to you... it was merely something I have witnessed myself.

No offense.. jus sayin.

I have much information, Cowslinger. And no offense taken at all.

 

[Scentofawoman]

I have much information, Cowslinger. And no offense taken at all.

If you have much information as you stated, then why do you not think his D/s relationship is not a true D/s relationship?

Slinger and I have been having a lot of conversations about this, and I get a lot of pushback on this too.

What makes people think true submission is?

 

[All_4_Love]

If you have much information as you stated, then why do you not think his D/s relationship is not a true D/s relationship?

Quite simply, one reason is that he stated in one of his posts that at times his wife takes the lead.

Also, I don't believe Cowslinger to be a gentleman or a Dom for that matter, although I do understand that is quite a strong opinion and rude of me to speak.