Obama in Cuba

[Ramone45]

The optics of this are awful. I think a visit by the POTUS confers honor and legitimacy. IMO the Cuban gov't, has not done enough to warrant that honor. The Obama's look SO happy there. The poster of Raul and Obama just makes me shudder. I think this administration gives in too quickly and that they are terrible negotiators. And the timing is awful. He doesn't go to Scalia's or Reagan's funeral, yet there he is in a a horrible communist country.
Our policy towards Cuba is a failure . I agree we need a new approach. But the President should have waited until major concessions were made by the cuban Gov't.

 

[about_average]

Yeah, we should have kept up a 64 year old embargo that accomplished nothing but closer ties between Cuba and Russia.

 

[Ramone45]

Yeah, we should have kept up a 64 year old embargo that accomplished nothing but closer ties between Cuba and Russia.

We agree on that. But what do you think about the President's visit? Is it time for that? What does it say? Why do we even care about Cuba? Becaused they scared the shit out of us? Who would benefit more from normalized relations? The President talks a lot about our "values", as he sees them. Cuba doesn't share our values. It is a dreadful place ruled by a horrible man.

 

[JackLuis]

It is a dreadful place ruled by a horrible man.

So like Texas without the rum then?

 

[Comshaw]

We agree on that. But what do you think about the President's visit? Is it time for that? What does it say? Why do we even care about Cuba? Becaused they scared the shit out of us? Who would benefit more from normalized relations? The President talks a lot about our "values", as he sees them. Cuba doesn't share our values. It is a dreadful place ruled by a horrible man.

He visited Texas didn't he? Same damn thing.



Comshaw

 

[about_average]

We agree on that. But what do you think about the President's visit? Is it time for that? What does it say? Why do we even care about Cuba? Becaused they scared the shit out of us? Who would benefit more from normalized relations? The President talks a lot about our "values", as he sees them. Cuba doesn't share our values. It is a dreadful place ruled by a horrible man.

What better way to expose a country to our values than through trade and recreation (not that recreational trips are allowed)?

 

[Sean Renaud]

We agree on that. But what do you think about the President's visit? Is it time for that? What does it say? Why do we even care about Cuba? Becaused they scared the shit out of us? Who would benefit more from normalized relations? The President talks a lot about our "values", as he sees them. Cuba doesn't share our values. It is a dreadful place ruled by a horrible man.

That Obama waited too long and should have found a way to essentially force at least one high ranking Republican to come along with him.

We care about Cuba because they are close enough to swim to us. Sure you've got to be in damn good shape and the sharks have to let you make it but it's possible.

Our values are basically whatever anybody says at any given moment but no Cuba is not a good place. Though we are to blame for a not insifnigicant part of that. And ultimately his visit only shows that America is finally ready to play ball.

Edit: The people who think this looks bad are the people who nothing Obama did could ever please. If he got on a plane tomorrow, challenged Putin to a winner take all MMA match and conquered Russia, then ran down to Iran and uppercutted the Ayatollah into the sun and converted ISIS into the biggest nonprofit organization saving the rainforest they'd simply accuse him of being a witch.

 

[about_average]

Imagine what Cuba would be like today if Eisenhower had met with Castro when he came to the US seeking aid, rather than going to play golf like he did.
No Cuban missile crises, no Marco Rubio, no Ted Cruz....

 

[RobDownSouth]

We just had a national referendum about US-Cuba relations.

Marco Rubio lost.

 

[Hypoxia]

USA should have given Florida to Cuba long ago.

They deserve each other.

Texas next.

 

[sr71plt]

I have to agree that thawing relations in incremental steps is one thing and a presidential visit is jumping the gun by a good bit--and will be seen as approval/toleration for status quo in Cuba. This, more than nominating a Supreme Court justice, is what I think should not be done this close to the end of his presidency. The next president could reverse all of this in a way that is more damaging than if the thaw wasn't started at all.

 

[Whiskey1965]

I'm glad Obama's in Cuba ,lets just keep him there, call it deportation in office so he can be with his commie loving friends.
Hell lets go crazy and send Bernie and Hillary down there also.
Cuba is every left wing nut jobs idea of fantasy Island.
Big Government that runs everything
One Party
Less cars
Free Collage and Medicine
Gun Control
No NRA
No Fox news
Plenty of poor people to rule over
Lots of Green energy
And no Republican's to get in their way as they rule
No over crowded prison's
No Gitmo
No Trump
No muslim terrorist or large weapon depots they call masques or temples
and the list just goes on.

 

[LIVINRFANTASIES]

Maybe Obumer will get to ride in a '53 Chebby!

 

[Ramone45]

The optics of this trip are beyond awful. He could have had negotiators and lower level representatives. But, the POTUS does not belong there at this point in time. It sends the wrong impression. I just saw another photo of him taken in front of a mural a Che. SMH

 

[Sean Renaud]

The optics of him talking to a low level official would be horrendous. Do you understand optics?

 

[sr71plt]

The optics of him talking to a low level official would be horrendous. Do you understand optics?

You seem to have missed the point being opined that he shouldn't be there at all. Don't see what talking to a low-level official has to do with anything anyone has posted.

 

[RobDownSouth]

The optics of this trip are beyond awful. He could have had negotiators and lower level representatives. But, the POTUS does not belong there at this point in time. It sends the wrong impression. I just saw another photo of him taken in front of a mural a Che. SMH

What "wrong impression" is that, pray tell?

 

[sr71plt]

The impression that we are further along in reestablishing relations with Cuba than we are and that we approve of the regime's treatment of its people more than we do. A presidential visit is way ahead of the curve here.

 

[RobDownSouth]

The impression that we are further along in reestablishing relations with Cuba than we are and that we approve of the regime's treatment of its people more than we do. A presidential visit is way ahead of the curve here.

Well, not surprisingly, I disagree.

US-Cuber relationship have been thawing at a glacial pace for several years now, mainly due to the bellicosity of the dwindling Cuban ex-pats in South Florida. They're dying off, and there is nobody to replace 'em. Good.

I happen to believe that President Obama's visit will hasten the demise of the Castro brothers dictatorship in Havana. American dollars will triumph over Cuban communism.

Kinda amusing to see you concerned about human rights, I gotta say.

 

[sr71plt]

Yes, the expats in Florida are part of the slowdown--and a part that I can say "that's tough" to. The larger part of the slowdown, though, has been the Cuban regime itself and its lack of "give." Lots of luck in seeing the "give" as a result of all the leverage given up by the presidential visit. I worked Cuban policy in the late 80s. I've been to Cuba on relations talks delegations. I don't have a problem with saying the presidential visit is premature--that we've given up leverage on a regime that has successfully waited us out now. It's like just before we can see the store turning a profit (the Castro brothers dying), we give the store away--to the Castro brothers.

So, disagree as you like. This goes all the way back to Obama's silly declaration in the 2008 campaign that he'd go anywhere to talk with any regime at any time. Doing that just gives up two-thirds of the leverage of diplomacy.

Incidentally, photos of Obama in front of an image of Che doesn't give me heartburn at all. You can find photos of Nixon and Bush senior in front of an image of Mao, Reagan in front of an image of Lenin, and Bush the lesser in front of an image of Ho Chi Minh.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Yes, the expats in Florida are part of the slowdown--and a part that I can say "that's tough" to. The larger part of the slowdown, though, has been the Cuban regime itself and its lack of "give." Lots of luck in seeing the "give" as a result of all the leverage given up by the presidential visit. I worked Cuban policy in the late 80s. I've been to Cuba on relations talks delegations. I don't have a problem with saying the presidential visit is premature--that we've given up leverage on a regime that has successfully waited us out now. It's like just before we can see the store turning a profit (the Castro brothers dying), we give the store away--to the Castro brothers.

So, disagree as you like. This goes all the way back to Obama's silly declaration in the 2008 campaign that he'd go anywhere to talk with any regime at any time. Doing that just gives up two-thirds of the leverage of diplomacy.

Incidentally, photos of Obama in front of an image of Che doesn't give me heartburn at all. You can find photos of Nixon and Bush senior in front of an image of Mao, Reagan in front of an image of Lenin, and Bush the lesser in front of an image of Ho Chi Minh.

You're probably old enough to remember when Nixon went to China.

Was Nixon's visit premature, given the fact that the ChiComs were arming the NVA?

Edited to add: I just searched Google News to see how the Obama-in-front-of-Che was trending. Surprisingly only one site (Trump's Breitbart.com) seemed to think it was end-of-teh-world stuff.

 

[about_average]

In the scheme of things I don't think his trip matters one way or the other. It might speed up normalization of relations, though if the GOP retains control of the house and senate I doubt it.

But I fully understand Obama wanting to go since he was instrumental in getting us as far as "normal" as we have and I don't begrudge him the trip.

 

[sr71plt]

You're probably old enough to remember when Nixon went to China.

Was Nixon's visit premature, given the fact that the ChiComs were arming the NVA?

Edited to add: I just searched Google News to see how the Obama-in-front-of-Che was trending. Surprisingly only one site (Trump's Breitbart.com) seemed to think it was end-of-teh-world stuff.

The Nixon visit had a whole lot more complex preparation than folks realize (more than the Reagan visit--which I went on), and the "ChiComs arming the NVA" is a simplistic view of the Southeast Asian picture. China also invaded North Vietnam (and yammered at length at the United States and the Soviet Union before doing so, thinking they had agreements they didn't have). Asia is not a simple picture.

 

[RUlookingup]

The Nixon visit had a whole lot more complex preparation than folks realize (more than the Reagan visit--which I went on), and the "ChiComs arming the NVA" is a simplistic view of the Southeast Asian picture. China also invaded North Vietnam (and yammered at length at the United States and the Soviet Union before doing so, thinking they had agreements they didn't have). Asia is not a simple picture.

Hillary has a bad taste in her mouth from "cigars". She won't be visiting Cuba.

 

[sr71plt]

Hillary has a bad taste in her mouth from "cigars". She won't be visiting Cuba.

Typical of your silliness. Obviously incapable of being serious--or of being taken seriously. Just an assclown.